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Author Topic: Tippit Shooting, 1:15  (Read 26754 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #660 on: November 30, 2019, 01:41:29 AM »
Again, Walt, if one is not open (receptive) to pursuit and then consideration of verifiable facts and to following them where they actually lead, your "cowardly" opinion of me might be understandable. Ironically, your irritation in reaction to me, my approach to research and the results I present is entirely misdirected. Save it for Jim Garrison and his wife's relative, Nicholas B. Lemann, and to a lesser extent, Garrison's biography editor and co-screenplay writer of "JFK, the movie," Zachary Sklar, who was "mugged" by both Garrison and Lemann.

Example: This is "in the face" of "the Community" because I stumbled upon it while trying to verify if what I had found through my research in early 2016 was an original "find," or not. I was researching Clay Shaw's first known "CIA hire," David G. Baldwin III. His 1945 wedding announcement informed me his mother was Adele Ziegler Baldwin, aka, Mrs. Harry Raworth. And it has turned out, with the benefit of 40 months of hindsight, now, that "the Community" didn't really want to know the verifiable facts, Thank You Very Much!



In the course of attempting to determine if my new fact checked research details were actually original, I found identical details, by author of a biography of Clay Shaw,
Donald H Carpenter.


And again, from Carpenter's book:


Just as DPD and FBI, "had their man," and after that, needed to look no further, you, Walt, and busload after busload of others, "have their movie," and the "saint" who made your movie, Oliver Stone.
[/b]
I did not view, "JFK, the movie" until 2013.:
Walt, second time informing you, you are mistaken here, as well.:
Walt, my post is the last one in this two page thread, 8 years and 5 months ago. 3 years before, Duke Lane posted this.:
My research solved this at least eleven years old question, just this week. This is the only document, so far, that answers the question why FBI suddenly questioned Arthur T Smith of 328-1/2 East Eighth Street, and then his son William Arthur Smith, who was on probation for a car theft offense and wanted no contact with law enforcement about what he and the mother of his friend, Jimmy Markham had witnessed.

A reason the document in the image above was not found until this week was because the WC testimony of William Arthur Smith transcribed what he testified his address was as "East Davis" instead of East Eighth, and one effect of this was taking attention away from the absurd WC testimony of DPD's Harry Olsen.


you, Walt, and busload after busload of others, "have their movie," and the "saint" who made your movie, Oliver Stone.

Gee, I hate to disappoint you,Tommy....   Although I enjoyed the movie....   I found it as unbelievable as LBJ's "Special Select Blue Ribbon Committee's BS tale.

However...Both the movie and the WR contain enough of the truth to keep the suckers interested.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #661 on: December 03, 2019, 07:24:43 AM »
Tom, are you too damned dumb to realize that William Arthur Smith moved around frequently....  In April of 1964 he was residing with his mother at 328 1/2 East Davis....but in November of 1963 he was living with his buddy Jimmy Burt ...on 8th street.    Smith was obviously a petty criminal who moved around frequently to keep ahead of the police.

Cite for Bill Smith living with Jimmy Burt.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #662 on: December 03, 2019, 07:41:36 AM »
Scully, says that he can't reach a conclusion.... He's been researching this case for a long time but he can't conclude ....He's says he's "open minded".  Is that the same as being too cowardly to face the truth?   

The important point in his post is the fact that William Smith told the FBI that he witnessed the murder of officer Tippit and the murderer was NOT  lee Oswald.   But Scully can't focus on this fact....instead he feels he needs run around in circles trying to figger out which address is correct.

There is no documentation quoting Bill Smith saying that the killer was NOT Oswald.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #663 on: December 03, 2019, 08:35:48 PM »
There is no documentation quoting Bill Smith saying that the killer was NOT Oswald.
Quote
SMITH advised that he did not believe it was OSWALD when he first saw OSWALD on TV because it looked like OSWALD had light colored hair.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/smith_w.htm
Repetitively stated in this...yawn...redundant thread.

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #664 on: December 23, 2019, 02:20:06 PM »
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/smith_w.htm
Repetitively stated in this...yawn...redundant thread.

That is not a quote of Bill Smith saying that the killer was not Oswald.

Offline Peter Kleinschmidt

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #665 on: December 25, 2019, 11:29:28 AM »
That is not a quote of Bill Smith saying that the killer was not Oswald.
You are not Bill Smith you are Bill Brown. You are the one confused

Offline Bill Brown

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #666 on: January 20, 2020, 05:24:05 AM »
Ted Callaway testified that after hearing the five gun shots, he ran out to the sidewalk on Patton.  This was a little over a half block south of the shooting scene.  Callaway saw a man (who he later identified as Oswald) cutting across Patton as he (Oswald) made his way south on Patton (towards Callaway's position).  Callaway hollered out to the man  as the man continued south on Patton past Callaway's position.  Callaway testified that the man was running and holding a gun.  Callaway saw the man head west on Jefferson (the same direction as the theater).

Once the man turned west onto Jefferson, Callaway ran a "good hard run" up to the corner of Tenth and Patton.  Callaway, noticing the stopped patrol car, went to the car and saw the officer (Tippit) lying dead in the street.  Callaway said the first thing he did was to grab the police car radio and report the shooting.  He said he didn't know if anyone had reported it yet, so he decided to report it himself.

To recap, Callaway hears the shots.  Runs to the sidewalk.  Sees the gunman run south on Patton the entire block from Tenth to Jefferson.  Runs the two-thirds of a block up to the shooting scene.  Goes over to the police car and the first thing he does is grab the radio and report the shooting to the police dispatcher.

How much time do you believe passed from the time Callaway heard the shots to the time he reported the shooting on the police radio?

Let's say two minutes pass from the time Oswald shoots Tippit to the time Oswald turns the corner from Patton onto Jefferson.  This is a little over one block and Oswald was running.

Let's say it takes Callaway one minute when he made the "good hard run" the two-thirds of a half block from his location to the patrol car.

If these two time estimates are anywhere close to being correct, then Callaway is at the patrol car roughly three minutes after the shots rang out.  Let's add another full minute for error.  So we have Callaway at the patrol car using the police radio about four minutes after the shots rang out.

Here's the thing... Callaway's report to the dispatcher while using the patrol car radio took place at 1:19/1:20.

Do the math and work it backwards.  At 1:19/1:20, Callaway makes the call.  If four minutes have passed (and that's being generous, in my opinion) since the shots rang out, then the shots rang out around 1:15.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #667 on: January 20, 2020, 05:42:36 AM »
To recap, Callaway hears the shots.  Runs to the sidewalk.  Sees the gunman run south on Patton the entire block from Tenth to Jefferson. 

If thatís true then why did Callaway ask Benavides if he saw which way the guy went?

Quote
Here's the thing... Callaway's report to the dispatcher while using the patrol car radio took place at 1:19/1:20.

And you know this is accurate...how? Or any of your other time estimates for that matter...

Offline Peter Kleinschmidt

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #668 on: January 20, 2020, 07:01:05 AM »
Ted Callaway testified that after hearing the five gun shots, he ran out to the sidewalk on Patton.  This was a little over a half block south of the shooting scene.  Callaway saw a man (who he later identified as Oswald) cutting across Patton as he (Oswald) made his way south on Patton (towards Callaway's position).  Callaway hollered out to the man  as the man continued south on Patton past Callaway's position.  Callaway testified that the man was running and holding a gun.  Callaway saw the man head west on Jefferson (the same direction as the theater).

Once the man turned west onto Jefferson, Callaway ran a "good hard run" up to the corner of Tenth and Patton.  Callaway, noticing the stopped patrol car, went to the car and saw the officer (Tippit) lying dead in the street.  Callaway said the first thing he did was to grab the police car radio and report the shooting.  He said he didn't know if anyone had reported it yet, so he decided to report it himself.

To recap, Callaway hears the shots.  Runs to the sidewalk.  Sees the gunman run south on Patton the entire block from Tenth to Jefferson.  Runs the two-thirds of a block up to the shooting scene.  Goes over to the police car and the first thing he does is grab the radio and report the shooting to the police dispatcher.

How much time do you believe passed from the time Callaway heard the shots to the time he reported the shooting on the police radio?

Let's say two minutes pass from the time Oswald shoots Tippit to the time Oswald turns the corner from Patton onto Jefferson.  This is a little over one block and Oswald was running.

Let's say it takes Callaway one minute when he made the "good hard run" the two-thirds of a half block from his location to the patrol car.

If these two time estimates are anywhere close to being correct, then Callaway is at the patrol car roughly three minutes after the shots rang out.  Let's add another full minute for error.  So we have Callaway at the patrol car using the police radio about four minutes after the shots rang out.

Here's the thing... Callaway's report to the dispatcher while using the patrol car radio took place at 1:19/1:20.

Do the math and work it backwards.  At 1:19/1:20, Callaway makes the call.  If four minutes have passed (and that's being generous, in my opinion) since the shots rang out, then the shots rang out around 1:15.

Then you should have no problem explaining how could so many witnesses observed so many things but not one of them sees a wallet,
and yet Cpt. Westbrook shows up out of nowhere with a wallet in his hand. The same Westbrook who finds a jacket,
the same Westbrook shows up at the Theater, the same Westbrook who never tells the same story twice.
   

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #669 on: January 21, 2020, 08:49:59 AM »
If thatís true then why did Callaway ask Benavides if he saw which way the guy went?

And you know this is accurate...how? Or any of your other time estimates for that matter...

And you know this is accurate...how? Or any of your other time estimates for that matter...

He relies completely on the DPD radio transcripts being correct and ignores what J.C. Bowles, who was in charge of the DPD dispatchers, had to say on the subject.

Two quotes from the same page: http://www.jfk-online.com/bowles1.html#set

A master clock on the telephone room wall was connected to the City Hall system. This clock reported "official" time. Within the dispatcher's office there were numerous other time giving and time recording devices, both in the telephone room and in the radio room. Telephone operators and radio operators were furnished "Simplex" clocks. Because the hands often worked loose, they indicated the incorrect time. However, their purpose was to stamp the time, day and date on incoming calls. While they were reliable at this, they were not synchronized as stated in the Committee report. Therefore, it was not uncommon for the time stamped on calls to be a minute to two ahead or behind the "official" time shown on the master clock. Accordingly, at "exactly" 10:10, various clocks could be stamping from 10:08 to 10:12, for example. When clocks were as much as a minute or so out of synchronization it was normal procedure to make the needed adjustments. During busy periods this was not readily done.

There is no way to connect "police time" with "real time." The Committee Report stated that the Dallas Police Communications system was recorded by continuously operating recorders. That statement is incorrect. Channel 1 was recorded on a Dictaphone A2TC, Model 5, belt or loop recorder. Channel 2 was recorded on a Gray "Audograph" flat disk recorder. Both were duplex units with one recording and one on standby for when the other unit contained a full recording. Both units were sound activated. It is important to note "sound" rather than "voice" because either sound or noise from any source, received through the transmission line, would activate the recorders. Once activated, the recorders remained "on" for the duration of the activating sound plus 4 seconds. The four second delay permitted brief pauses or answers to questions without the relay mechanism being overworked. On occasion, the recorders would operate almost continuously because rapid radio traffic kept them operating. On November 22, 1963, the Channel 1 recorders became, for practical purposes, continuous recorders for just over five minutes starting at approximately 12:29 pm (Channel 1 time) because the microphone on a police motorcycle stuck in the "on" position. The resulting continuous transmission kept the Channel 1 recorders operating for just over five minutes thus giving us a real-time recording for that period. The only problem was determining a basis for an accurate time reference during that period.

Spoken time stamps that could be two minutes ahead or behind the "official" time (whatever that is), recorded on voice activated devices do not provide a solid basis for preparing accurate transcripts.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 09:02:52 AM by Martin Weidmann »

 

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