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Author Topic: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)  (Read 10770 times)

Offline Otto Beck

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2019, 11:24:42 AM »
Of course we need to correct Vince.

This could become a very, very long thread.

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #10 on: September 30, 2019, 11:24:42 AM »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2019, 02:51:57 PM »
This could become a very, very long thread.

I count five LN members on the forum at present. DVP seems to have left the building. Most would rather engage in Garrison bashing rather than discussing the evidence the WC uncovered and yet deliberately ignored or were unable to digest.

Nothing offered to put Jarman and Norman on the 5th floor before Rowland's gunman. No corroboration for Givens obvious concoction. Yet his early statement suggests he saw Oswald in the domino room 20 minutes after the elevator race. Most likely around 12.10-12.15pm. At 12.25 or so Jarman and Norman walk by the same domino room. The same time Brennan sees someone in the SN.

Shelley saw him around 11.50am on the first floor. He is on the 5th floor at the time of the elevator race and then seen by Piper around noon back on the first floor near the domino room. Givens's sighting is 10-15 minutes later.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 02:54:56 PM by Colin Crow »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2019, 04:37:59 PM »
LNers don’t care about the details, Colin. The narrative must be preserved at all costs.

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2019, 04:37:59 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2019, 04:48:30 PM »
Givens appears to distinguish between his "coat" and his "jacket" in his responses.  For example, he indicates that he left a "raincoat" in the domino room that morning.  In fact, Belin uses the term "jacket" in that question but Givens responds with "raincoat".  And he retrieves his "coat" when he leaves for the day.  In response to questions about his trip to the 6th floor, however, he consistently references his "jacket."  Maybe that is the distinction.  He wore a raincoat to work that morning but also kept a jacket at work. I don't see that distinction as undermining his testimony.  And then there is this characterization that brings to mind the many witnesses that described Oswald as wearing a jacket after the assassination when he appears to have had on a long sleeve shirt:


Mr. BELIN. When you got off the elevator, as you were coming back up to get your shirt, did you have any occasion as you were walking out of the elevator to look to see if there was anyone else on the floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I wasn't thinking of that. I just happened to glance around as I was on my way back.

Mr. BELIN. Did you wear a jacket to work that day?
Mr. GIVENS. I wore a raincoat, I believe. It was misting that morning.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2019, 06:50:52 PM »
LNers don’t care about the details, Colin. The narrative must be preserved at all costs.

Look who's talking!

John "I Will Allow No Evidence Even Remotely Perceived as Possibly Implicating and/or Not Actually Exonerating Oswald in the Assassination to Be Permitted, No Matter How Devious and Intellectually Dishonest I Must Be to Accomplish My Mission" Iacoletti.

LOL

What a hypocrite.

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 06:55:20 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2019, 06:50:52 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2019, 07:48:07 PM »
Pure BS from a guy who thinks his speculative nonsense is evidence.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2019, 07:55:46 PM »
Pure BS from a guy who thinks his speculative nonsense is evidence.

John,

I found the photo of the five male models wearing Bermuda shorts that you posted on a thread about the identity of the three skirt and or dresses-under-raincoats-wearing people on the Pergola Patio in Towner, but I can't find the one you posted showing a guy wearing Bermuda shorts in the snow.

Have you deleted it?

I wouldn't be surprised if you have.

--  MWT   ;)



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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #16 on: September 30, 2019, 07:55:46 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2019, 04:35:48 AM »
You really should see somebody about your obsession with men’s shorts.

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2019, 04:35:48 AM »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2019, 04:36:43 AM »
Givens appears to distinguish between his "coat" and his "jacket" in his responses.  For example, he indicates that he left a "raincoat" in the domino room that morning.  In fact, Belin uses the term "jacket" in that question but Givens responds with "raincoat".  And he retrieves his "coat" when he leaves for the day.  In response to questions about his trip to the 6th floor, however, he consistently references his "jacket."  Maybe that is the distinction.  He wore a raincoat to work that morning but also kept a jacket at work. I don't see that distinction as undermining his testimony.  And then there is this characterization that brings to mind the many witnesses that described Oswald as wearing a jacket after the assassination when he appears to have had on a long sleeve shirt:


Mr. BELIN. When you got off the elevator, as you were coming back up to get your shirt, did you have any occasion as you were walking out of the elevator to look to see if there was anyone else on the floor?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, no, sir; I wasn't thinking of that. I just happened to glance around as I was on my way back.

Mr. BELIN. Did you wear a jacket to work that day?
Mr. GIVENS. I wore a raincoat, I believe. It was misting that morning.

I can see where you are coming from Richard. Certainly worth a considered response. Belin specifically mentioned “jacket”, as he was obviously aware of the significance that this will play later when Givens claimed collecting his jacket because his cigarettes were in the pocket. It seems the normal practice was to leave jackets, coats and hats in the domino room. Givens replied with raincoat. He did not say “I wore a jacket and coat”….simply raincoat. Belin asked if he hung his “coat” in the domino room and Givens simply confirms. As the jacket was central to the argument one would think that Belin should have clarified and then moved on.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2019, 05:15:29 AM »
Of course we need to correct Vince. His statement that Brennan saw 3 men on the fifth floor is incorrect. Brennan only saw two, likely because we know Williams did not arrive to join the others until just shortly before the shots.

I would also point out that the idea that Williams had agreed with anyone to view the motorcade from the 6th floor that morning is an uncorroborated claim by Williams. Neither Lovelady or Arce were asked to confirm an any statement or testimony.

From "You are the Jury" by David Belin......

"Mr. Belin. I believe that you testified that you thought you recognized two of the people that you saw looking out of the fifth floor of the School Book Depository Building ... outside of the building sometime after the assassination, is that correct?
The two people that you saw, are they any of these three people here?
Mr. Brennan. Yes. I believe it is the one on the end and this one here, I am not sure.
The employee that Brennan immediately identified was Harold Norman. But he seemed to hesitate about the other, although he said that he thought
that it was James Jarman Jr. I deliberately tried to trip up Brennan:
Mr. Belin. Could it have been neither one of these persons that you saw?
Mr. Brennan. I think it was one of them. I think it was this boy on the end.
Mr. Belin. You thought it was Mr. Norman. And what about Mr. Jarman?
Mr. Brennan. I believe it was him too. Am I right or wrong?
Mr. Ball. I don't know.
And at that time, neither Joe Ball nor I did know whether Brennan was right or wrong. The answer depended on the testimony of Harold Norman and James Jarman Jr."

I somehow doubt the truthfulness of Belin's last statement. Ball and Belin visited Dallas immediately before these testimonies. They spent considerable time with Williams, Norman and Jarman in reconstructing their movements in the TSBD.

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2019, 05:15:29 AM »

 

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