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Author Topic: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley  (Read 584 times)

Online Thomas Graves

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My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« on: September 26, 2019, 02:20:05 PM »
Jefferson,

In your anti-Angleton book, The Ghost, why did you mention true-defector Pyotr Deriabin only one time, and, incongruously, not to denegrate false defector Yuri Nosenko's credibility, but to cast aspersions on his nemesis, true defector Anatoliy Golitsyn (by relaying Deriabin's mind-blowing observation that Golitsyn had had a reputation as a "troublemaker," or some such thing, in the KGB)?

Your doing so seems disingenuous, given the fact that Deriabin, after interviewing Nosenko twelve times and correcting the transcripts of possible mole George Kisevalter, etc, was convinced Golitsyn's and Bagley's and Angleton's "take" on Nosenko was correct: he was a false defector sent here to discredit Golitsyn and to convince the FBI and CIA that the KGB had had, implausibly, nothing to do with Oswald in the USSR.

On the Nosenko issue, you are aware, aren't you, that John Newman convinced Peter Dale Scott in March of 2018 that Nosenko was a false defector, dispatched to the U.S. to discredit Golitsyn, and that Newman was basing his information on Bagley's books Spy Wars and Spymaster (the latter with a former general in KGB's First Chief Directorate -- today's SVR -- Sergei Kondrashev)?

As far as I'm concerned, Nosenko's well-recieved pronouncements on Oswald's alleged non-relationship with the KGB, although perhaps mostly true, were solely intended to serve as an "icebreaker" of sorts so that Nosenko would be quickly deemed credible by the gullible FBI and CIA, and so that his discrediting of Golitsyn would appear to be that much more effective.

-- Thomas Graves  ;)

(Known here as "Mudd Wrassler Tommy")
« Last Edit: September 26, 2019, 04:49:20 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2019, 06:43:02 PM »
Jefferson, Donít reply. Itís a trap. MWT likes to ask questions, but will not answer them. He will ask one inane question after another, in long unreadable sentences, packed with assumption after assumption.

And, welcome.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2019, 07:36:43 PM »
Jefferson, Donít reply. Itís a trap. MWT likes to ask questions, but will not answer them. He will ask one inane question after another, in long unreadable sentences, packed with assumption after assumption.

That's right, Jeff.

Take Mike's word for it, I ask you all you brainwashed-by-KGB-active-measures-and-strategic-deceptions guys questions that you can't answer, because to do so would not only entail your realizing how out-of-touch-with-reality you really are, but would cause you one hell of a lot of cognitive dissonance, as well.

"It's a trap!"

LOL

--  MWT  ;)

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2019, 12:03:23 AM »

...I ask you all you brainwashed-by-KGB-active-..........

LOL

--  MWT  ;)

Huh?

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2019, 01:51:41 AM »
Huh?

Michael,

If you were to set down Hart and Heuer and Solie for a few hours and read Bagley's 2007 book Spy Wars or his 2014 PDF Ghost's of the Spy Wars, you'd know what I'm referring to when I say "active measures counterintelligence operations (since 1921 with Trust and Sindikat-2), and "strategic (aka operational) counterintelligence operations" (since 1959 with Polyalov's "volunteering" in NYC to spy for the FBI and the CIA).

--  MWT   ;)
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 01:52:58 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2019, 02:11:48 AM »
Michael,

If you were to set down Hart and Heuer and Solie for a few hours and read Bagley's 2007 book Spy Wars or his 2014 PDF Ghost's of the Spy Wars, you'd know what I'm referring to when I say "active measures counterintelligence operations (since 1921 with Trust and Sindikat-2), and "strategic (aka operational) counterintelligence operations" (since 1959 with Polyalov's "volunteering" in NYC to spy for the FBI and the CIA).

--  MWT   ;)

I know what you are referring to. It is called ďThe Monster PlotĒ.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2019, 03:18:16 AM »
I know what you are referring to. It is called ďThe Monster PlotĒ.

Iirc, Bagley doesn't get into that in either of those, or even in Spymaster, the book he wrote about his friend and former adversary, General Sergei Kondrachev.

He's more concerned with Nosenko, and how, with some inside help by people like Kulak (FBI's "Fedora") and Kochnov (CIA's "Kittyhawk") and maybe a mole or two, managed to deceive people like McCoy, Hart, Solie, Admiral Turner and William Colby, get declared bona fide, and end up lecturing and consulting at CIA.

--  TWG  ;)

PS  Golitsyn gets into what you and Hart call "The Monster Plot" in his 1980 (published in 1984) book New Lies For Old, and his his 1994 book The Perestroika Deception.

https://archive.org/stream/AnatoliyGolitsyn/Golitsyn-ThePerestroikaDeception-TheWorldsSlideTowardsTheSecondOctoberRevolution1995_djvu.txt
« Last Edit: September 27, 2019, 03:27:47 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2019, 03:27:30 AM »
Iirc, Bagley doesn't get into that in either of those, or even in Spymaster, the book he wrote about his friend and former adversary, General Sergei Kondrachev.

He's more concerned with Nosenko, and how, with some inside help by people like Kulak (FBI's "Fedora") and Kochnov (CIA's "Kittyhawk") and maybe a mole or two, managed to deceive people like McCoy, Hart, Solie, Admiral Turner and William Colby, get declared bona fide, and end up lecturing and consulting at CIA.

--  TWG  ;)

PS  Golitsyn gets into what you and Hart call "The Monster Plot" in his 1980 (published in 1984) book New Lies For Old, and his book The Perestroika Deception.

Thomas, It seems to me that you have not been paying attention to anyone but your hero. Of course, we already knew that, but the results are painfully and embarrassingly obvious by your statements above.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2019, 03:33:51 AM »
Thomas, It seems to me that you have not been paying attention to anyone but your hero. Of course, we already knew that, but the results are painfully and embarrassingly obvious by your statements above.

Michael,

What you don't realize yet (and probably never will) is that my heroes Bagley, Angleton, Miler and Golitsyn, et al., weren't duped like your heroes McCoy, Hart, Solie, Osborn, Heuer, Oliver Stone, Jefferson Morley, and James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio, et al.

I'm surprised you refuse to read Spy Wars, even though doing so would make you better-informed and better able to make (weak) "rebuttals" on the specifics I've already posted on other threads.

But then again I guess ignorance really is bliss, especially when it comes to understanding the workings of the KGB, and those of Department D -- aka Department 14 -- of the Second Chief Directorate (today's FSB), especially. 

Created in 1959 by decree of the movers and shakers of the 20th Party Congress (which, btw, also designated The United States of America "The Main Enemy"), and tasked with waging Sun Tsu-like "strategic deception counterintelligence operations" against same.

You know, deception ops?

Interwoven with more traditional active measures ops in such as way as to form "Inside Man"/"Outside Man" feedback loops?

Hmm

Lord knows the garbage documents and essays you've posted over and over by your heroes don't "cut the  mustard, Michael, and therefore, unfortunately, you haven't got a clue.

In my humble opinion.

I consistently point out the inconsistencies, factual errors and fallacies in them, but for naught as they consistently go "in one ear and out the other" with you.

Evidently.

Bottom line: You don't know the subject matter very well, and you don't seem to realize that when it comes to anti-KGB, anti-FSB, anti-SVR, and anti-GRU  counterintelligence, the Devil Is In The Details, and you don't even know the basics.

Has Spy Wars got too many Russian names?

Too layered and convoluted?

Too much excruciating cognitive dissonance pain for my favorite firebrand?

If it makes you feel any better, Bagley was a "Lone Nutter".

It's funny how Deep State Conspiracy Theorists like you and Brian Doyle are so blinded by your (imho) warped belief systems that neither of you are capable of conceiving that the "evil CIA" wasn't quite as evil as the KGB and the totalitarian system it strived to preserve and expand.

What's really funny is that Brian can't envision, for example, Carolyn Arnold's hanging out (for whatever reason) for about 90 minutes before going home without her (putative) coat, and you apparently can't conceive of the possibility that Hart, Solie and Heuer, et al., were blowing smoke out their you-know-whats.

LOL

In my humble opinion you really are hopeless, Michael.

You've been Voodo-dolled, and you're a "gonner" if there ever was one.

It would seem. 

Like Brian Doyle, "Jumbo Duh," Sandy Larsen, and 50 billion others, et al.

And now, imho, you and "Jeff," et al., are doing the dirty work of KGB-boy Vladimir Putin, and, at least in your case, you (evidently) don't even realize it.

Duly noted and reported?

-- MWT  ;)

« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:13:08 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My First Question for Our New Member, Jefferson Morley
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2019, 11:59:35 PM »
Michael,

What you don't realize yet (and probably never will) is that my heroes Bagley, Angleton, Miler and Golitsyn, et al., weren't duped like your heroes McCoy, Hart, Solie, Osborn, Heuer, Oliver Stone, Jefferson Morley, and James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio, et al.

I'm surprised you refuse to read Spy Wars, even though doing so would make you better-informed and better able to make (weak) "rebuttals" on the specifics I've already posted on other threads.

But then again I guess ignorance really is bliss, especially when it comes to understanding the workings of the KGB, and those of Department D -- aka Department 14 -- of the Second Chief Directorate (today's FSB), especially. 

Created in 1959 by decree of the movers and shakers of the 20th Party Congress (which, btw, also designated The United States of America "The Main Enemy"), and tasked with waging Sun Tsu-like "strategic deception counterintelligence operations" against same.

You know, deception ops?

Interwoven with more traditional active measures ops in such as way as to form "Inside Man"/"Outside Man" feedback loops?

Hmm

Lord knows the garbage documents and essays you've posted over and over by your heroes don't "cut the  mustard, Michael, and therefore, unfortunately, you haven't got a clue.

In my humble opinion.

I consistently point out the inconsistencies, factual errors and fallacies in them, but for naught as they consistently go "in one ear and out the other" with you.

Evidently.

Bottom line: You don't know the subject matter very well, and you don't seem to realize that when it comes to anti-KGB, anti-FSB, anti-SVR, and anti-GRU  counterintelligence, the Devil Is In The Details, and you don't even know the basics.

Has Spy Wars got too many Russian names?

Too layered and convoluted?

Too much excruciating cognitive dissonance pain for my favorite firebrand?

If it makes you feel any better, Bagley was a "Lone Nutter".

It's funny how Deep State Conspiracy Theorists like you and Brian Doyle are so blinded by your (imho) warped belief systems that neither of you are capable of conceiving that the "evil CIA" wasn't quite as evil as the KGB and the totalitarian system it strived to preserve and expand.

What's really funny is that Brian can't envision, for example, Carolyn Arnold's hanging out (for whatever reason) for about 90 minutes before going home without her (putative) coat, and you apparently can't conceive of the possibility that Hart, Solie and Heuer, et al., were blowing smoke out their you-know-whats.

LOL

In my humble opinion you really are hopeless, Michael.

You've been Voodo-dolled, and you're a "gonner" if there ever was one.

It would seem. 

Like Brian Doyle, "Jumbo Duh," Sandy Larsen, and 50 billion others, et al.

And now, imho, you and "Jeff," et al., are doing the dirty work of KGB-boy Vladimir Putin, and, at least in your case, you (evidently) don't even realize it.

Duly noted and reported?

-- MWT  ;)

Interesting

I donít think Helms was very impressed With Bagely. And Olson felt the need to spike Bagelyís career, with this:

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32359254.pdf


 TOP SECRET

13 October 1970

MEMORANDUM FOR THE RECORD

Subject: BAGELY, Tennant, Harrington

#386 38

1) On Wednesday, 7 October 1970 I briefed Colonel L. K. White, Executive  Director-Controller on certain reservations I have concerning the proposed promotion of subject to a supergrade position.

 2)  I was very careful to explain to Colonel White at the outset that my reservations had nothing whatsoever to do with Bagely's security status. I explained that it was my conviction that Bagely was almost exclusively responsible for the manner in which the Nosenko case had been handled by our SR division. I said I considered that Bagely lacked objectivity and that he had displayed extremely poor judgment over a two year period in the handling of this case. Specifically as one example of Bagely's extreme prejudice I pointed out that the SR division had neglected to follow up several leads provided by Nosenko which subsequently had been followed up by this office (Bruce Solie) and that this lead us to individuals who have confessed their recruitment and use by the Soviets over an extensive period of time.

3)  I explained further that Bagely displayed extremely poor judgment in the actions he took during that time that  Nosenko was incarcerated at ISOLATION. On many occasions, as the individual responsible for Nosenko's care, I refuse to condone Bagely's  instructions to my people who are guarding him. In one instance Bagely insisted that  Nosenko's food ration be reduced to black bread and water three times daily. After I had briefed Colonel White, he indicated that he would refresh the Director's memory on Bagely's role in the Nosenko case at the time he reviews supergrade promotions. 

 

Howard J. Osborn

Director of Security
« Last Edit: October 24, 2019, 02:49:52 AM by Michael Clark »

 

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