Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...  (Read 10783 times)

Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2693
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 04:47:34 AM »
Advertisement

You do know that John Newman believes that elements of the US government - probably (if I read him correctly) in the Pentagon - killed JFK?

He hasn't released his last work yet but his two previous books outlined what appears to be his belief that the assassination was an "Operation Northwoods" type plot engineered by elements in the Defense Department (Lemnitzer et al.) who opposed JFK for his policies on Cuba and Southeast Asia.

So I am curious as to why you quote Dr. Newman to support your view that the Soviets were behind the assassination? Newman's views are closer to the Stone's thesis in JFK than yours is.

Steven,

Of course I'm aware that John Newman is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who apparently doesn't realize that the probable KGB triple-agent who "volunteered" to an Oswald impersonator (who naturally couldn't speak English very well, and who evidently pretended he couldn't speak Russian very well at all) the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet embassy phoneline was ... well ... as I said, a probable KGB triple agent -- a KGB triple-agent whose name was misspelled "Byetkov" in the transcript of Angleton's June 19, 1975 Church Committee testimony. (Can you say Ivan Obyedkov?; have you ever seen his highly redacted 48- page "201" file?)

Ahh, but I digress.


I do admit to having been a bit "blown away" and pleasantly surprised when I realized in March of 2018 that Newman had not only read Spy Wars and Spymaster by my hero, (Lone-Nutter) Tennent H. Bagley, but had been heavily influenced by them. 

I really must read his new two-or-three-or-four part tome to see how he "spins" Bagley's "Nosenko was a false defector, and Golitsyn was a true one" stuff, if at all.

Which one do you recommend?

Does he talk about KGB active measures counterintelligence operations and strategic deception counterintelligence operations?

Hmm?

Have you watched Newman's two-part Spy Wars youtube presentation from March, 2018, yet? The one in which he actually convinced PDS that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector, and tried to convince him that Anatoliy Golitsyn was a sane and true one?

Despite what I've written above, I'm no longer so sure that the Soviets were actually "behind" the assassination (unless Ion Pacepa is correct when he says the KGB programmed/trained Oswald in the USSR, and Khruschev was unable to call the mission off after Oswald had returned to the U.S.), but they certainly took advantage of it through people like Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, Roger Stone, Robert Morrow, Alex Jones, et al.  So effective that we now have a CT-plagued country with have a dumbed-down, gullible electorate who helped the Kremlin put Donald "Useful Idiot" Trump in office and as a result we're now facing the prospect of a civil war.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Did you know that Golitsyn told CIA in December 1961 that KGB was planning to assassinate an unknown-to-him Western political leader?

PPS  Did you know that KGB triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI'S  "Shamrock") misled Hoover in 1966 into believing that the Kremlin had undertaken a six-month investigation after the assassination, which "investigation" concluded that the evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Complex had conspired to assassinate our beloved president. And did you know ...  aww, never mind.  Probably "in one ear and out the other," right? 

Couple of hints as to what I was gonna "launch" into: Undercover FBI agent Morris Childs in Moscow on 11/22/63, and Khrushchev's button-holing of Drew Pearson at a party of some sort in Cairo in early 1964.

PPS  Please don't run away, now, Steven, like you almost always do ...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 05:36:57 AM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 04:47:34 AM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2019, 05:27:20 PM »
Steven,

Of course I'm aware that John Newman is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who apparently doesn't realize that the probable KGB triple-agent who "volunteered" to an Oswald impersonator (who naturally couldn't speak English very well, and who evidently pretended he couldn't speak Russian very well at all) the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet embassy phoneline was ... well ... as I said, a probable KGB triple agent -- a KGB triple-agent whose name was misspelled "Byetkov" in the transcript of Angleton's June 19, 1975 Church Committee testimony. (Can you say Ivan Obyedkov?; have you ever seen his highly redacted 48- page "201" file?)

Ahh, but I digress.


I do admit to having been a bit "blown away" and pleasantly surprised when I realized in March of 2018 that Newman had not only read Spy Wars and Spymaster by my hero, (Lone-Nutter) Tennent H. Bagley, but had been heavily influenced by them. 

I really must read his new two-or-three-or-four part tome to see how he "spins" Bagley's "Nosenko was a false defector, and Golitsyn was a true one" stuff, if at all.

Which one do you recommend?

Does he talk about KGB active measures counterintelligence operations and strategic deception counterintelligence operations?

Hmm?

Have you watched Newman's two-part Spy Wars youtube presentation from March, 2018, yet? The one in which he actually convinced PDS that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector, and tried to convince him that Anatoliy Golitsyn was a sane and true one?

Despite what I've written above, I'm no longer so sure that the Soviets were actually "behind" the assassination (unless Ion Pacepa is correct when he says the KGB programmed/trained Oswald in the USSR, and Khruschev was unable to call the mission off after Oswald had returned to the U.S.), but they certainly took advantage of it through people like Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, Roger Stone, Robert Morrow, Alex Jones, et al.  So effective that we now have a CT-plagued country with have a dumbed-down, gullible electorate who helped the Kremlin put Donald "Useful Idiot" Trump in office and as a result we're now facing the prospect of a civil war.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Did you know that Golitsyn told CIA in December 1961 that KGB was planning to assassinate an unknown-to-him Western political leader?

PPS  Did you know that KGB triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI'S  "Shamrock") misled Hoover in 1966 into believing that the Kremlin had undertaken a six-month investigation after the assassination, which "investigation" concluded that the evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Complex had conspired to assassinate our beloved president. And did you know ...  aww, never mind.  Probably "in one ear and out the other," right? 

Couple of hints as to what I was gonna "launch" into: Undercover FBI agent Morris Childs in Moscow on 11/22/63, and Khrushchev's button-holing of Drew Pearson at a party of some sort in Cairo in early 1964.

PPS  Please don't run away, now, Steven, like you almost always do ...
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

According to the former head of KGB operations in the US - Oleg Kalugin - Nosenko's defection created a crisis for the KGB. Numerous operations had to be shut down and several operatives and assets had to be recalled. Kalugin defected to the US in the 1990s (the Russians issued a warrant for his arrest), says Putin is a monstrous criminal, and views the KGB as a evil institution.

But you will respond that Kalugin is a Putin agent, the KGB reaction to Nosenko's defection was part of that plan and everything else indicating Nosenko was a legitimate defector is proof that he was illegitimate.

So what's the use of a discussion? Whatever evidence I present will be viewed by you as evidence of your conspiracy. This is exactly how the Simpichs and DiEugenios respond.


Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2693
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2019, 07:40:52 PM »
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

According to the former head of KGB operations in the US - Oleg Kalugin - Nosenko's defection created a crisis for the KGB. Numerous operations had to be shut down and several operatives and assets had to be recalled. Kalugin defected to the US in the 1990s (the Russians issued a warrant for his arrest), says Putin is a monstrous criminal, and views the KGB as a evil institution.

But you will respond that Kalugin is a Putin agent, the KGB reaction to Nosenko's defection was part of that plan and everything else indicating Nosenko was a legitimate defector is proof that he was illegitimate.

So what's the use of a discussion? Whatever evidence I present will be viewed by you as evidence of your conspiracy. This is exactly how the Simpichs and DiEugenios respond.

Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

Steven,

I know that's the way it must seem to you in your (imho) brainwashed by Lane, Garrison, Stone, Newman, Simpich, Jumbo Duh, et al., mind, but I suggest that you read my post, again, especially where I posit that true-Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald, equally pissed off at the failed Soviet Promise and the Fascistic American System, decided to assist the Dialectical Materialism Process by taking matters into his own hands.

Please don't run away now, Steven.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  The KGB was known to intentionally misinform its own officers from time-to-time, especially as regards "that traitor" Yuri Nosenko. So it's hard to know whether or not that's what happened with your boy Oleg Kalugin (and Oleg Gordievsky), or whether he is, as I suspect, an after-the-so-called-fall-of-USSR "triple-agent".

Sorry, dude.

PS Here's Gordievsky's subtly misleading and scurrilous review of Tennent H. Bagley's excellent 2007 book Spy Wars.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2007/05/untangling-the-web-of-deception/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15701301387063&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2F2007%2F05%2Funtangling-the-web-of-deception%2F

Have you read it, yet?  (The book, that is?)
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames/page/n3

Didn't think so.

Way too complicated, way too many Russian names, and way too much agonizing "cognitive dissonance" for you to handle, right, Steven?

Aww, dat's too bad ...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 08:29:46 PM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2019, 07:40:52 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1434
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2019, 03:30:35 PM »
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

Steven,

I know that's the way it must seem to you in your (imho) brainwashed by Lane, Garrison, Stone, Newman, Simpich, Jumbo Duh, et al., mind, but I suggest that you read my post, again, especially where I posit that true-Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald, equally pissed off at the failed Soviet Promise and the Fascistic American System, decided to assist the Dialectical Materialism Process by taking matters into his own hands.

Please don't run away now, Steven.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  The KGB was known to intentionally misinform its own officers from time-to-time, especially as regards "that traitor" Yuri Nosenko. So it's hard to know whether or not that's what happened with your boy Oleg Kalugin (and Oleg Gordievsky), or whether he is, as I suspect, an after-the-so-called-fall-of-USSR "triple-agent".

Sorry, dude.

PS Here's Gordievsky's subtly misleading and scurrilous review of Tennent H. Bagley's excellent 2007 book Spy Wars.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2007/05/untangling-the-web-of-deception/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15701301387063&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2F2007%2F05%2Funtangling-the-web-of-deception%2F

Have you read it, yet?  (The book, that is?)
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames/page/n3

Didn't think so.

Way too complicated, way too many Russian names, and way too much agonizing "cognitive dissonance" for you to handle, right, Steven?

Aww, dat's too bad ...
I am brainwashed by Newman and Simpich et al? I am not the person citing their opinions to support my conspiracy view. That would be you.

To be explicit about my view: Lee Oswald shot JFK. We'll never understand his motives (those went with him) but they were probably, in part, because of JFK's covert war on Castro and Cuba. And also because of his extreme hatred of the US system in general and because he wanted to become a historic figure.

About 10 days before the assassination he visits the FBI headquarters in Dallas and leaves a rather "provocative" note. That's not the act of someone conspiring to kill the president ten days later. He's drawing attention to himself. The day before the assassination he retrieves his old rifle. He has to get a ride the next day from a co-worker.

These are the acts of a desperate person, working on his own, using his meager resources. It's not the act of any conspiracy. Where is the help?

Norman Mailer interviewed several dozen former KGB agents when he went to Minsk. These were the men assigned to the Oswald matter. All said that Oswald was viewed as a crank, an unstable person and they didn't want anything to do with him. He was simply not someone they could use. Mailer also interviewed many of Oswald's colleagues, associates and co-workers. None describe him as being missing for any length of time where he would have received this KGB training.

All of this evidence that Begley ignores completely undermines his argument that Nosenko was a triple agent or a "fake" defector. Even assuming for the sake of it that Nosenko was a false defector, it's an absurd leap to argue that because he said the KGB never used Oswald that in fact Oswald was a trained KGB operative sent back to the US. You need proof of this training and there isn't any.

Finally, no on here responds to your posts because you come across as not exactly the type of guy a person wants as his neighbor. In other words, you need to work on your charm and charisma if you want people to talk with you.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 03:58:47 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2693
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2019, 12:39:25 PM »
I am brainwashed by Newman and Simpich et al? I am not the person citing their opinions to support my conspiracy view. That would be you.

To be explicit about my view: Lee Oswald shot JFK. We'll never understand his motives (those went with him) but they were probably, in part, because of JFK's covert war on Castro and Cuba. And also because of his extreme hatred of the US system in general and because he wanted to become a historic figure.

About 10 days before the assassination he visits the FBI headquarters in Dallas and leaves a rather "provocative" note. That's not the act of someone conspiring to kill the president ten days later. He's drawing attention to himself. The day before the assassination he retrieves his old rifle. He has to get a ride the next day from a co-worker.

These are the acts of a desperate person, working on his own, using his meager resources. It's not the act of any conspiracy. Where is the help?

Norman Mailer interviewed several dozen former KGB agents when he went to Minsk. These were the men assigned to the Oswald matter. All said that Oswald was viewed as a crank, an unstable person and they didn't want anything to do with him. He was simply not someone they could use. Mailer also interviewed many of Oswald's colleagues, associates and co-workers. None describe him as being missing for any length of time where he would have received this KGB training.

All of this evidence that Begley ignores completely undermines his argument that Nosenko was a triple agent or a "fake" defector. Even assuming for the sake of it that Nosenko was a false defector, it's an absurd leap to argue that because he said the KGB never used Oswald that in fact Oswald was a trained KGB operative sent back to the US. You need proof of this training and there isn't any.

Finally, no on here responds to your posts because you come across as not exactly the type of guy a person wants as his neighbor. In other words, you need to work on your charm and charisma if you want people to talk with you.

Steven,

Glad to see you and I agree that Oswald shot JFK.

My hero, your Tennent H. Begley [sic], was, by all accounts, not a student of the assassination. He was intrigued, however, by the fact that false defector Yuri Nosenko not only implausibly claimed to have been in charge of Oswald's KGB file three or four times (and to have been the one who recommended his not being allowed to stay in the USSR, etc), but that the KGB hadn't even interviewed the former Marine Corps radar operator.

Newman, trusting (hopefully not on all things!) KGB Colonel Oleg Nechiporenko, believes KGB interviewed Oswald twice.

Meebe more.

(I can't find it now, but I've read somewhere that Bagley believed Nosenko's implausible statement indicated that the KGB had had a prior relationship with Oswald.)

Bagley's main concern was trying to protect the CIA (and the FBI, too, I suppose) from being penetrated by Soviet intelligence, and for his employer, the CIA, to penetrate Soviet intelligence. As a result of his very thorough "studying" and with a little help from James Angleton (who insisted he read Golitsyn's file right after he and fluent Russian-speaker George Kisevalter had interviewed Nosenko five times in Geneva in 1962) he became convinced that Golitsyn was a true defector and Nosenko a false one.

Bagley, no "sadistic incompetent" as Michael Clark claims, realized that Anatoliy Golitsyn and Pyotr Deriabin and a few others were true defectors, and that Aleksey Kulak (FBI's Fedora) and Dimitri Polyakov (FBI's Top Hat; CIA's Bourbon) and several others were triple-agents, that Yuri Nosenko and a few others were false defectors, and that never-uncovered Edward Ellis Smith (and probably someone in the SR Division he helped KGB to recruit), and a never-uncovered code-clerk called "Jack" by the KGB, and possibly one or two others (my personal favorite: Bagley's erstwhile colleague in interviewing Nosenko -- George Kisevalter) were "moles".

As far as the JFK assassination was concerned, he, like you, was what people in the so-called research community call a "Lone Nutter".

I vacillate between being a "Lone Nutter" and a "Conspiracy Theorist," but that doesn't mean I sometimes believe Oswald conspired with the evil, evil, evil CIA, or the Mafia, or The Minutemen.  If he conspired at all, it was with the likes of Igor Vaganov, Miguel Casas Saez, Gilberto Policarpo Lopez, and/or long-term KGB "illlegal" George DeMohrenschildt (yes, I know he wasn't in town at the time, but still ...)

Have a nice day, and I mean it goddammit.

Your buddy,
Mudd Wrassler Tommy  ;)

PS  If I were in my "Oswald Was Trained Or Programmed By The KGB" mode right now, in answer to your demand that I produce evidence of same, I would either refer you to Ion Pacepa's book, or would reply to you that I'm seriously thinking about filing some "Freedom of Information" requests in that highly transparent country known as The Great Russian Empire.

A little sarcasm, there, Steven. To brighten up your day. Please don't run away, now ...

LOL

PPS  I moved to the Czech Republic in 1993, and I detected paranoia among many of the older people who were living there.

One can only wonder at how paranoid (and controlled?) Mailer's interviewees were in 1992, or whenever.

Just sayin'.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 02:08:20 PM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2019, 12:39:25 PM »


Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2693
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #21 on: October 07, 2019, 03:27:37 PM »
Glad to see you and I agree that Oswald shot JFK. -- LOL

Otto,

Well at least you read my post, so there's hope for you yet that you might eventually learn something real.

Btw, are you saying that Steven M. Galbraith doesn't believe Oswald killed JFK?

--  MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 03:32:29 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2693
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2019, 04:49:59 PM »
Certainly not, from what I've seen, Galbraith is firmly rooted in the Von P landfill, like this one

Otto,

It's a pity (British English) you're so ignorant on matters JFK Assassination, even though you've probably got xxxxxxxxxx memorized by heart.

-- MWT  ;)

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2019, 04:49:59 PM »


Offline Thomas Graves

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2693
Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2019, 08:19:36 PM »
I'm not sure what "matter" you're referring to as the case, IMO, is so vast that a single person can not be expected to cover everything even in a lifetime.

Good luck with your Galbraith buddy project!

Otto,

My android ran out of juice and then I forgot that I wanted to fill "xxxxxxxxxxxx," above (couldn't remember the title at the time).

CROSSFIRE: THE PLOT THAT KILLED KENNEDY, by Jim Marrs.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2019, 08:20:41 PM by Thomas Graves »