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Author Topic: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...  (Read 980 times)

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2019, 09:35:22 PM »
Michael,

Thanks for reminding me (and confessing that you haven't watched John Newman's two-part 2018 "Spy Wars" video in its entirety yet) --

Did you ever finish that letter to Newman and Professor Scott?  You know, the one in which you're gonna set 'em straight about your hero, false-defector Yuri Nosenko?

--  MWT   ;)

Like I said........
« Last Edit: September 28, 2019, 10:42:31 PM by Michael Clark »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2019, 09:36:59 PM »
That two-part John Newman youtube video is too convoluted, too complicated, it has way too many Russian names in it, and, most importantly of all, it doesn't portray James Angleton as an evil, evil man,Tennent H. Bagley as the sadistic incompetent he obviously was, and Anatoliy Golitsyn as an over-the-top Paranoiac Delusional ...

... so there's really no reason for you to watch it, right?

Especially since you already know everything there is to know about the humanitarian organization formerly known as the KGB!

THE COLD WAR IS OVER!

LOL

-- MWT  ;)


The same tired song.... over and over and over and over again...

Yawn.....

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2019, 11:15:20 PM »

The same tired song.... over and over and over and over again...

Yawn.....


Poor Michael Clark, who, like most Americans, is incredibly ignorant on matters KGB because he not only refuses to read what I've suggested to him and won't watch a two-part video by CTer extraordinaire John Newman, but has swallowed the message of Oliver Stone's JFK so "hook, line and sinker" that he believes we were living in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State" until the Ruskies helped Donald Trump get "elected," or at least doesn't realize that they did.

Sad.  Very, very sad ...

--  MWT  ;)

PS  What's older and more tiring than the "The Military-Industrial-Intelligence-Community-Complex Murdered JFK" song?
« Last Edit: September 29, 2019, 02:52:22 AM by Thomas Graves »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2019, 09:54:18 PM »
Poor Michael Clark, who, like most Americans, is incredibly ignorant on matters KGB because he not only refuses to read what I've suggested to him and won't watch a two-part video by CTer extraordinaire John Newman, but has swallowed the message of Oliver Stone's JFK so "hook, line and sinker" that he believes we were living in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State" until the Ruskies helped Donald Trump get "elected," or at least doesn't realize that they did.

Sad.  Very, very sad ...

--  MWT  ;)

PS  What's older and more tiring than the "The Military-Industrial-Intelligence-Community-Complex Murdered JFK" song?
You do know that John Newman believes that elements of the US government - probably (if I read him correctly) in the Pentagon - killed JFK?

He hasn't released his last work yet but his two previous books outlined what appears to be his belief that the assassination was an "Operation Northwoods" type plot engineered by elements in the Defense Department (Lemnitzer et al.) who opposed JFK for his policies on Cuba and Southeast Asia.

So I am curious as to why you quote Dr. Newman to support your view that the Soviets were behind the assassination? Newman's views are closer to the Stone's thesis in JFK than yours is.

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2019, 12:33:23 AM »
You do know that John Newman believes that elements of the US government - probably (if I read him correctly) in the Pentagon - killed JFK?

He hasn't released his last work yet but his two previous books outlined what appears to be his belief that the assassination was an "Operation Northwoods" type plot engineered by elements in the Defense Department (Lemnitzer et al.) who opposed JFK for his policies on Cuba and Southeast Asia.

So I am curious as to why you quote Dr. Newman to support your view that the Soviets were behind the assassination? Newman's views are closer to the Stone's thesis in JFK than yours is.

Thomas believes in the “Monster Plot”. He likes the Newman Video because, at the time, Newman believed Nosenko to be a a false defector. Nosenko claimed that the KGB had no interest in Oswald. Thomas believes that LHO didit, at the behest of the KGB.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2019, 01:46:42 AM »
Thomas believes in the “Monster Plot”. He likes the Newman Video because, at the time, Newman believed Nosenko to be a a false defector. Nosenko claimed that the KGB had no interest in Oswald. Thomas believes that LHO didit, at the behest of the KGB.

Michael,

"At the time," as in March, 2018?  Gasp ... a whole year-and-a-half ago?

Has Professor John Newman changed his mind back to believing Yuri Nosenko was a true defector?  (If he ever believed that, that is.)

Where can I read his saying that, or watch him say that in a more recent video, Mike?

Gasp ... Did you finally send him that letter informing him about Richards J. Heuer's essay and ... gasp ... HSCA perjurer John L. Hart's full 187-page, unredacted report that wasn't released until 2017?

LOL

Or did you just make that up, when you used the past tense and put in the phrase "at the time"?

Regarding LHO, not necessarily. Being a true (although underinformed) Marxist or Marxist-Leninist, and being fed up with both Soviet and U.S. culture and society, and maybe fed up with being used as a pawn by both the KGB and the CIA/FBI, he may have given them both the middle finger salute and taken matters into his own hands -- to speed up the "Dialectics".

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Do you believe we live in an evil, evil, evil "Deep State," Mike?

I do. 

Well, at least a stupid, stupid, stupid country (the U.S.) that's manipulated by the evil, evil, evil Deep State that used to be called the KGB (and the GRU), but nowadays is called the FSB and the SVR (they sound so nice, da?). 

And the good-old GRU, of course, home of the 13 Ruskie "Guccifer 2.0" hackers and DNCLeaks denizens who helped bring Donad "Useful Idiot" Trump to power.

Possible civil war looming now in the U.S., and First Chief Directorate Counterintelligence Division Lieutenant-Colonel (Ret.) multi-multi-billionaire Vladimir Putin is jumping for joy.

Keep up the good work, Mike, I'm pretty sure Vladimir loves what you, and James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio at the so-called Education Forum, et al., do.

PPS  Did you know that on page 407-408 of his 1994 book, Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA, Mark Riebling says that by the end of 1993, almost 94 percent of the falsifiabe things Nosenko's nemesis, Anatoliy Golitsyn, had predicted in his 1984 "Monster Plot" book, New Lies for Old, had already come true?
https://archive.org/details/WedgeFromPearlHarborTo911HowTheSecretWarBetweenTheFBIAndCIAHasEndangeredNationalSecurity

« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 03:16:29 AM by Thomas Graves »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2019, 04:47:34 AM »

You do know that John Newman believes that elements of the US government - probably (if I read him correctly) in the Pentagon - killed JFK?

He hasn't released his last work yet but his two previous books outlined what appears to be his belief that the assassination was an "Operation Northwoods" type plot engineered by elements in the Defense Department (Lemnitzer et al.) who opposed JFK for his policies on Cuba and Southeast Asia.

So I am curious as to why you quote Dr. Newman to support your view that the Soviets were behind the assassination? Newman's views are closer to the Stone's thesis in JFK than yours is.

Steven,

Of course I'm aware that John Newman is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who apparently doesn't realize that the probable KGB triple-agent who "volunteered" to an Oswald impersonator (who naturally couldn't speak English very well, and who evidently pretended he couldn't speak Russian very well at all) the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet embassy phoneline was ... well ... as I said, a probable KGB triple agent -- a KGB triple-agent whose name was misspelled "Byetkov" in the transcript of Angleton's June 19, 1975 Church Committee testimony. (Can you say Ivan Obyedkov?; have you ever seen his highly redacted 48- page "201" file?)

Ahh, but I digress.


I do admit to having been a bit "blown away" and pleasantly surprised when I realized in March of 2018 that Newman had not only read Spy Wars and Spymaster by my hero, (Lone-Nutter) Tennent H. Bagley, but had been heavily influenced by them. 

I really must read his new two-or-three-or-four part tome to see how he "spins" Bagley's "Nosenko was a false defector, and Golitsyn was a true one" stuff, if at all.

Which one do you recommend?

Does he talk about KGB active measures counterintelligence operations and strategic deception counterintelligence operations?

Hmm?

Have you watched Newman's two-part Spy Wars youtube presentation from March, 2018, yet? The one in which he actually convinced PDS that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector, and tried to convince him that Anatoliy Golitsyn was a sane and true one?

Despite what I've written above, I'm no longer so sure that the Soviets were actually "behind" the assassination (unless Ion Pacepa is correct when he says the KGB programmed/trained Oswald in the USSR, and Khruschev was unable to call the mission off after Oswald had returned to the U.S.), but they certainly took advantage of it through people like Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, Roger Stone, Robert Morrow, Alex Jones, et al.  So effective that we now have a CT-plagued country with have a dumbed-down, gullible electorate who helped the Kremlin put Donald "Useful Idiot" Trump in office and as a result we're now facing the prospect of a civil war.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Did you know that Golitsyn told CIA in December 1961 that KGB was planning to assassinate an unknown-to-him Western political leader?

PPS  Did you know that KGB triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI'S  "Shamrock") misled Hoover in 1966 into believing that the Kremlin had undertaken a six-month investigation after the assassination, which "investigation" concluded that the evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Complex had conspired to assassinate our beloved president. And did you know ...  aww, never mind.  Probably "in one ear and out the other," right? 

Couple of hints as to what I was gonna "launch" into: Undercover FBI agent Morris Childs in Moscow on 11/22/63, and Khrushchev's button-holing of Drew Pearson at a party of some sort in Cairo in early 1964.

PPS  Please don't run away, now, Steven, like you almost always do ...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 05:36:57 AM by Thomas Graves »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2019, 05:27:20 PM »
Steven,

Of course I'm aware that John Newman is a tinfoil hat conspiracy theorist who apparently doesn't realize that the probable KGB triple-agent who "volunteered" to an Oswald impersonator (who naturally couldn't speak English very well, and who evidently pretended he couldn't speak Russian very well at all) the made-radioactive-by-KGB name "Kostikov" over a sure-to-be-tapped-by-CIA Soviet embassy phoneline was ... well ... as I said, a probable KGB triple agent -- a KGB triple-agent whose name was misspelled "Byetkov" in the transcript of Angleton's June 19, 1975 Church Committee testimony. (Can you say Ivan Obyedkov?; have you ever seen his highly redacted 48- page "201" file?)

Ahh, but I digress.


I do admit to having been a bit "blown away" and pleasantly surprised when I realized in March of 2018 that Newman had not only read Spy Wars and Spymaster by my hero, (Lone-Nutter) Tennent H. Bagley, but had been heavily influenced by them. 

I really must read his new two-or-three-or-four part tome to see how he "spins" Bagley's "Nosenko was a false defector, and Golitsyn was a true one" stuff, if at all.

Which one do you recommend?

Does he talk about KGB active measures counterintelligence operations and strategic deception counterintelligence operations?

Hmm?

Have you watched Newman's two-part Spy Wars youtube presentation from March, 2018, yet? The one in which he actually convinced PDS that Yuri Nosenko was a false defector, and tried to convince him that Anatoliy Golitsyn was a sane and true one?

Despite what I've written above, I'm no longer so sure that the Soviets were actually "behind" the assassination (unless Ion Pacepa is correct when he says the KGB programmed/trained Oswald in the USSR, and Khruschev was unable to call the mission off after Oswald had returned to the U.S.), but they certainly took advantage of it through people like Mark Lane, Jim Garrison, Oliver Stone, Roger Stone, Robert Morrow, Alex Jones, et al.  So effective that we now have a CT-plagued country with have a dumbed-down, gullible electorate who helped the Kremlin put Donald "Useful Idiot" Trump in office and as a result we're now facing the prospect of a civil war.

LOL

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Did you know that Golitsyn told CIA in December 1961 that KGB was planning to assassinate an unknown-to-him Western political leader?

PPS  Did you know that KGB triple-agent Boris Orehkov (FBI'S  "Shamrock") misled Hoover in 1966 into believing that the Kremlin had undertaken a six-month investigation after the assassination, which "investigation" concluded that the evil, evil, evil Military Industrial Complex had conspired to assassinate our beloved president. And did you know ...  aww, never mind.  Probably "in one ear and out the other," right? 

Couple of hints as to what I was gonna "launch" into: Undercover FBI agent Morris Childs in Moscow on 11/22/63, and Khrushchev's button-holing of Drew Pearson at a party of some sort in Cairo in early 1964.

PPS  Please don't run away, now, Steven, like you almost always do ...
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

According to the former head of KGB operations in the US - Oleg Kalugin - Nosenko's defection created a crisis for the KGB. Numerous operations had to be shut down and several operatives and assets had to be recalled. Kalugin defected to the US in the 1990s (the Russians issued a warrant for his arrest), says Putin is a monstrous criminal, and views the KGB as a evil institution.

But you will respond that Kalugin is a Putin agent, the KGB reaction to Nosenko's defection was part of that plan and everything else indicating Nosenko was a legitimate defector is proof that he was illegitimate.

So what's the use of a discussion? Whatever evidence I present will be viewed by you as evidence of your conspiracy. This is exactly how the Simpichs and DiEugenios respond.


Online Thomas Graves

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2019, 07:40:52 PM »
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

According to the former head of KGB operations in the US - Oleg Kalugin - Nosenko's defection created a crisis for the KGB. Numerous operations had to be shut down and several operatives and assets had to be recalled. Kalugin defected to the US in the 1990s (the Russians issued a warrant for his arrest), says Putin is a monstrous criminal, and views the KGB as a evil institution.

But you will respond that Kalugin is a Putin agent, the KGB reaction to Nosenko's defection was part of that plan and everything else indicating Nosenko was a legitimate defector is proof that he was illegitimate.

So what's the use of a discussion? Whatever evidence I present will be viewed by you as evidence of your conspiracy. This is exactly how the Simpichs and DiEugenios respond.

Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

Steven,

I know that's the way it must seem to you in your (imho) brainwashed by Lane, Garrison, Stone, Newman, Simpich, Jumbo Duh, et al., mind, but I suggest that you read my post, again, especially where I posit that true-Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald, equally pissed off at the failed Soviet Promise and the Fascistic American System, decided to assist the Dialectical Materialism Process by taking matters into his own hands.

Please don't run away now, Steven.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  The KGB was known to intentionally misinform its own officers from time-to-time, especially as regards "that traitor" Yuri Nosenko. So it's hard to know whether or not that's what happened with your boy Oleg Kalugin (and Oleg Gordievsky), or whether he is, as I suspect, an after-the-so-called-fall-of-USSR "triple-agent".

Sorry, dude.

PS Here's Gordievsky's subtly misleading and scurrilous review of Tennent H. Bagley's excellent 2007 book Spy Wars.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2007/05/untangling-the-web-of-deception/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15701301387063&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2F2007%2F05%2Funtangling-the-web-of-deception%2F

Have you read it, yet?  (The book, that is?)
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames/page/n3

Didn't think so.

Way too complicated, way too many Russian names, and way too much agonizing "cognitive dissonance" for you to handle, right, Steven?

Aww, dat's too bad ...
« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 08:29:46 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: My On-Again, Off-Again "Co-conspirator" at the EF Posted This In 2016 ...
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2019, 03:30:35 PM »
Your views of the assassination are really not much different than the Bill Simpich/DiEugenio/Peter Dale Scott "Everyone in the US government killed JFK" conspiracy view other than you substitute the KGB for the US government.

Steven,

I know that's the way it must seem to you in your (imho) brainwashed by Lane, Garrison, Stone, Newman, Simpich, Jumbo Duh, et al., mind, but I suggest that you read my post, again, especially where I posit that true-Marxist Lee Harvey Oswald, equally pissed off at the failed Soviet Promise and the Fascistic American System, decided to assist the Dialectical Materialism Process by taking matters into his own hands.

Please don't run away now, Steven.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  The KGB was known to intentionally misinform its own officers from time-to-time, especially as regards "that traitor" Yuri Nosenko. So it's hard to know whether or not that's what happened with your boy Oleg Kalugin (and Oleg Gordievsky), or whether he is, as I suspect, an after-the-so-called-fall-of-USSR "triple-agent".

Sorry, dude.

PS Here's Gordievsky's subtly misleading and scurrilous review of Tennent H. Bagley's excellent 2007 book Spy Wars.

https://www-spectator-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.spectator.co.uk/2007/05/untangling-the-web-of-deception/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15701301387063&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2F2007%2F05%2Funtangling-the-web-of-deception%2F

Have you read it, yet?  (The book, that is?)
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames/page/n3

Didn't think so.

Way too complicated, way too many Russian names, and way too much agonizing "cognitive dissonance" for you to handle, right, Steven?

Aww, dat's too bad ...
I am brainwashed by Newman and Simpich et al? I am not the person citing their opinions to support my conspiracy view. That would be you.

To be explicit about my view: Lee Oswald shot JFK. We'll never understand his motives (those went with him) but they were probably, in part, because of JFK's covert war on Castro and Cuba. And also because of his extreme hatred of the US system in general and because he wanted to become a historic figure.

About 10 days before the assassination he visits the FBI headquarters in Dallas and leaves a rather "provocative" note. That's not the act of someone conspiring to kill the president ten days later. He's drawing attention to himself. The day before the assassination he retrieves his old rifle. He has to get a ride the next day from a co-worker.

These are the acts of a desperate person, working on his own, using his meager resources. It's not the act of any conspiracy. Where is the help?

Norman Mailer interviewed several dozen former KGB agents when he went to Minsk. These were the men assigned to the Oswald matter. All said that Oswald was viewed as a crank, an unstable person and they didn't want anything to do with him. He was simply not someone they could use. Mailer also interviewed many of Oswald's colleagues, associates and co-workers. None describe him as being missing for any length of time where he would have received this KGB training.

All of this evidence that Begley ignores completely undermines his argument that Nosenko was a triple agent or a "fake" defector. Even assuming for the sake of it that Nosenko was a false defector, it's an absurd leap to argue that because he said the KGB never used Oswald that in fact Oswald was a trained KGB operative sent back to the US. You need proof of this training and there isn't any.

Finally, no on here responds to your posts because you come across as not exactly the type of guy a person wants as his neighbor. In other words, you need to work on your charm and charisma if you want people to talk with you.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2019, 03:58:47 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

 

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