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Author Topic: The "Domino Room Alibi"  (Read 12581 times)

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2019, 10:02:47 PM »
How did Lance Payette’s argument about the domino room alibi morph into where the shot that killed JFK originated from?

I was talking about crazy CT theories in general.

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2019, 10:02:47 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2019, 10:19:02 PM »
Is that as 'flawed' as you lot never posting the butt-end view of CE399?

My “lot” has posted that photo here many times. This is just one of the BS claims you trot out repeatedly.

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Is that as 'flawed' as starting Zap a few frames late (as per Martin Hinrichs) in arguments re the twofer?

What “twofer”? When did Martin say anything about starting Zap a few frames late?

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Is that as 'flawed' as you attempting to try the case in bits & pieces (while at the same time holding each separate piece to a beyond-reasonable-doubt standard) like some Better Call Saul-style greaseball?

I don’t know why you lot think that pieces evidence that don’t meet a reasonable doubt standard somehow combine to meet one. Garbage in, garbage out.

Offline John Mytton

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2019, 11:15:08 PM »
But either way, arguing against a particular conspiracy doesn’t get you any closer to showing that Oswald did it.

Huh? If a shot could be proven to come from the front wouldn't that get you closer to showing Oswald didn't do it.

JohnM

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2019, 11:15:08 PM »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2019, 12:53:49 AM »
Bump, just in case David missed my post in the fast moving thread.

I agree with everything you just said, Martin.

My earlier point was not that I believe Oswald was down on the first floor at about 12:25. (As I said previously, I definitely do not believe such a thing.) I merely was pointing out the fact that a 12:25 alibi is not the same thing as a 12:30 alibi. And 12:30, as we all know, is the key time here.

Fair enough, but then there is this; according to some interrogation reports Oswald made some vague comment about two negros being in (or walking through) the room where he was. Unfortunately, we don't really know what Oswald actually said verbatim, so we have to rely on the notes made by the interrogators and their choice of words for writing it in their report. However, having said that, I think that the combined reports do clearly suggest that Oswald did in fact make some comment about negros being in (or walking through) the room.

So, as he identified one of them by name, some time ago, I tried to establish a timeline for the movements of Jarman and Norman prior to their arrival at the 5th floor, and the conclusion was that these two men did indeed pass through the shipping area (visible from the Domino room) just minutes prior to the shooting. I am aware of the LN theory that Oswald first saw Jarman and Norman from the 6th floor window and later heard them talking (and identifying them) below him, which is why he concocted the story of seeing both men, but IMO that's a very weak narrative for two reasons; (1) During my visit to the TSBD, some years ago, I tried to look down to where I understood Norman and Jarman were supposed to have been and found it impossible to see that location from there and (2) if Oswald was able to identify both men by the sound of their voice, IMO those men on the 5th floor should also have been able to hear the movement on the floor above them, prior to the shots, which they didn't!

Which leaves me with a bit of a mystery. If I am being kind to Oswald, I could argue that he was indeed in the Domino room when he saw Norman and Jarman enter the loading area and walking towards the elevators, which means that it is possible that the interrogators simply were not precise enough in their reports.

So, here's the question; since we have already agreed that Oswald could have made it to the 6th floor in roughly the same time Norman and Jarman made it to the 5th floor, why are the LNs fighting so hard to ridicule and dismiss the scenario I have just outlined based on nothing else than those vague (and possibly wrong or incomplete) remarks in the interrogation reports?

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2019, 01:23:29 AM »
Huh? If a shot could be proven to come from the front wouldn't that get you closer to showing Oswald didn't do it.

Not really — unless it can be proven where Oswald was. But if you could prove the shot that killed JFK came from behind, it still wouldn’t tell you anything about who fired it.

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2019, 01:23:29 AM »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2019, 01:29:52 AM »
     Your answer to my question is non-responsive. Again, why would he fight his way through the boxes encasing the sniper's nest to simply eat his lunch? Also, if he were waiting for friends to join him, how would they have seen him if he were squirreled away inside the sniper's nest? If you believe he is a flat-out liar, just say so.

If his workmates planned to meet him why did they not join him? Why were they (Lovelady and Arce) questioned about the "plan"? Williams lied repeatedly to authorities about his movements on the 6th floor. As did Jarman and Norman. His lunch was reported by numerous officers who first observed the SN. Rowland testified he saw an African-American in that position at the time he was on the 6th floor.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2019, 01:40:36 AM »
In that EF thread, Lance is doing the same thing I've been doing on JFK forums for the last 15 years----he's pointing out the (very) flawed thinking of the Anybody But Oswald conspiracy theorists.

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/07/getting-back-to-basics.html

Why would he need to make up stuff about Oswald rarely eating lunch in the Domino room. It is easily dismissed as unsupported rambling of those too lazy to read the testimonies or unable to interpret the information. Like those LNs who claim did no work that day because there were orders left on the clipboard. That Grillo guy claimed that on the LG podcast recently. Total baloney. Put your LN narrative into the reality that is supported by the assembled evidence. At least JohnM has acknowledged that the events immediately prior to the shooting might not be as suggested by the WR.

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #56 on: September 14, 2019, 01:40:36 AM »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2019, 01:50:26 AM »
By the time any investigator could have known that Jarman and Norman were walking together Oswald was dead. Until March ‘64 Jarman and Norman said that Williams was with them during the lunch break and on the elevator to the 5th floor. Williams told of his trip to the 6th floor only after Oswald was dead.

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #57 on: September 14, 2019, 01:50:26 AM »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #58 on: September 14, 2019, 03:09:15 AM »
If his workmates planned to meet him why did they not join him? Why were they (Lovelady and Arce) questioned about the "plan"? Williams lied repeatedly to authorities about his movements on the 6th floor. As did Jarman and Norman. His lunch was reported by numerous officers who first observed the SN. Rowland testified he saw an African-American in that position at the time he was on the 6th floor.

      You believe THEY are lying. Why did They lie?

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2019, 03:24:13 AM »
      You believe THEY are lying. Why did They lie?

They did lie.....look at the various statements. As for their motivation to lie....that the real discussion. Evidence needs to be substantiated. The claim by Williams of a meeting of workmates on the 6th floor is unsubstantiated, unsupported by events and not investigated by the WC. In any court of law would be treated as such. He was a liar. The question is why. Why did others lie in an attempt to remove him from the 6th floor? There is no question that they lied.....it in the statements for anyone to see. Givens also lied about seeing Oswald during his "cigarette trip". I have no doubt Oswald lied in custody......the funny thing is we have no record of it, simply the statements of others. Yet we have signed statements from Williams, Jarman, Norman and Givens that all contain lies. 

I have serious issues with those LN proponents who dismiss the evidence that seems inconvenient to them. Why investigate the case at all? How far have they come from the conclusions of day one? The WR author(s) were unwilling or unable to digest and analyse (or both) their own assembled evidence.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2019, 03:31:39 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: The "Domino Room Alibi"
« Reply #59 on: September 14, 2019, 03:24:13 AM »

 

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