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Author Topic: Mrs Robert Reid  (Read 22521 times)

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1040 on: October 25, 2019, 09:58:38 PM »
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John,

How so?

...and then you go on to just reiterate the same wild-ass guesses.

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1040 on: October 25, 2019, 09:58:38 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1041 on: October 25, 2019, 10:19:22 PM »
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...and then you go on to just reiterate the same wild-ass guesses.


John,

Exactly what in the text, below, is a "wild-ass guess" in your humble opinion?

As we can see in the Christmas Party photos, Gloria Calvery was a very large, tall gal, and we already know that she always wore largish black-framed glasses.  The very large, tall gall who's wearing a black blouse and a black headscarf in Zapruder was also "caught" in Betzner-3, and you yourself labeled her "Glasses Woman" because you evidently didn't want to admit that she was wearing a black blouse and a black headscarf in that photo.  Until, of course, you realized that Calvery always wore glasses.  LOL

We know that the four women standing to the left of the four consecutive headscarf-wearing gals in Zapruder were journalists at the Dallas Morning News newspaper, and we know that Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook told the FBI that they watched the motorcade together at a spot on the north side of Elm Street, about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass.

If Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook aren't those four headscarf-wearing gals standing "shoulder to shoulder" on the north side of Elm Street in Zapruder, then where are they?

And how do you reconcile yourself to the fact that your and Westbrook's "Uhhh ... possibly Carol Reed, definitely Gloria Calvery, and definitely me, Karen Westbrook!" were caught on film by Tina Towner's father as they were walking across the Pergola Patio a few minutes after the assassination?


--  MWT   ;)

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1042 on: October 25, 2019, 10:48:22 PM »
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Exactly what in the text, below, is a "wild-ass guess" in your humble opinion?

Every bit of it is a wild ass guess.  You're guessing that a blob you see in Betzner is Calvery because you think it looks like a "large, tall 'gal' with glasses".  You're guessing that the person in Zapruder is the same as the person in Betzner.  You're guessing that Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook stood shoulder-to-shoulder, and you're guessing where along the street they were standing (since it's not halfway).  You're even going so far as to guess which one is which in your guessed group of four.  You're guessing that the Towner blobs were the same people as the Zapruder next-to-the-sign-blobs.  You're guessing when the Towner sequence was filmed.  You're guessing about everything, and then declaring your guesses as facts.

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If Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook aren't those four headscarf-wearing gals standing "shoulder to shoulder" on the north side of Elm Street in Zapruder, then where are they?

Shifting the burden is your favorite logical fallacy:  "my wild ass guess is a fact unless you can prove that they are different people".  No, Tommy, you prove that your four chosen figures are Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook, or it's just a wild-ass guess.  At least Westbrook has the advantage of having been there and knew where she stood and who she was next to.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2019, 10:49:20 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1042 on: October 25, 2019, 10:48:22 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1043 on: October 25, 2019, 11:38:26 PM »
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Every bit of it is a wild ass guess.  You're guessing that a blob you see in Betzner is Calvery because you think it looks like a "large, tall 'gal' with glasses".  You're guessing that the person in Zapruder is the same as the person in Betzner.  You're guessing that Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook stood shoulder-to-shoulder, and you're guessing where along the street they were standing (since it's not halfway).  You're even going so far as to guess which one is which in your guessed group of four.  You're guessing that the Towner blobs were the same people as the Zapruder next-to-the-sign-blobs.  You're guessing when the Towner sequence was filmed.  You're guessing about everything, and then declaring your guesses as facts.

Shifting the burden is your favorite logical fallacy:  "my wild ass guess is a fact unless you can prove that they are different people".  No, Tommy, you prove that your four chosen figures are Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook, or it's just a wild-ass guess.  At least Westbrook has the advantage of having been there and knew where she stood and who she was next to.

John,

Just a question and a cursory comment for now: 

Question:

Other than the big, tall woman in Zapruder, do you see any other black-blouse and black-headscarf wearing women in said film who are standing "about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass," or anywhere on the north side of Elm Street for that matter?


Comment:

Since Zapruder is visible in Betzner-3, and Betzner is visible in some Zapruder frames, when you "triangulate" the positions or Zapruder, Betzner, and your Betzner-3 "Glasses Woman," it's easy to see that the big, tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing woman in Zapruder is the same person as your "Glasses Woman". 

The same thing can be done with Willis-5 and Zapruder to determine that the man wearing the "trilby" hat in said photo is the same trilby-wearing guy who was standing two people away from the big, tall woman under discussion in Zapruder, and has been correctly identified as Ernest Brandt for a long, long time by the likes of Robin Unger and Don Roberdeau.

--  MWT   ;)
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 03:01:59 AM by Thomas Graves »

Online Brian Doyle

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Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1044 on: October 26, 2019, 04:11:44 PM »
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Given the fact Karen Westbrook couldn't remember that during the motorcade she was standing between a journalist (Maggie Brown) to her left, and her all-in-white colleague Carol Reed to her right (and that she couldn't remember that she wasn't wearing a raincoat, etc, etc, etc), why should we trust her memory on anything?

When did Westbrook say this, btw?  1963?  1964?  2017?

Did Westbrook even know Mrs. Robert A. Reid (aka Jeraldean Reid)?

PS  Imho Geneva Hine doesn't sound all that sure of herself in her Warren Commission testimony when she says Mrs. Robert Reid was in the group of four or five people who came into the office several minutes after the assassination.

2017 with Fagin...In the video interview...

This is all up to the total dysfunction of the research community...No one shows Westbrook Stanton's photo album photo of Jerladean Reid or the Cooper Mrs Reid...No one goes and asks her about Mrs Reid telling her about seeing Oswald with a Coke when the ladies were all being detained in the office corral...No one asks her if she came back in with Mrs Reid or how long Mrs Reid stayed in the offices under detention?...

This is interesting because Hackerott's shadow graphics show that if the clip with the ladies crossing Houston were 2pm we would clearly see it in the shadows but the shadows are showing more like 12:55...That makes sense because Carolyn Arnold said she lingered for a while and never went back inside and then left...

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Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1044 on: October 26, 2019, 04:11:44 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1045 on: October 26, 2019, 05:23:03 PM »
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Just a question and a cursory comment for now: 

You’re long on questions, but short on evidence.

It’s irrelevant who was wearing black, because you don’t know what Calvery was wearing that day.

And let’s see your “triangulation” analysis rather that just claiming that it “can be done”.

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1046 on: October 26, 2019, 05:25:43 PM »
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This is all up to the total dysfunction of the research community...No one shows Westbrook Stanton's photo album photo of Jerladean Reid or the Cooper Mrs Reid...

That’s because there is no “Cooper Mrs Reid”.

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No one goes and asks her about Mrs Reid telling her about seeing Oswald with a Coke when the ladies were all being detained in the office corral...

That’s because the ladies weren’t detained in the office corral. You just made that up.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2019, 05:26:11 PM by John Iacoletti »

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1046 on: October 26, 2019, 05:25:43 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1047 on: October 26, 2019, 10:58:35 PM »
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You’re long on questions, but short on evidence.

It’s irrelevant who was wearing black, because you don’t know what Calvery was wearing that day.

And let’s see your “triangulation” analysis rather that just claiming that it “can be done”.

John,

We know that the big, tall woman in Zapruder was wearing a black blouse (or sweater) and a black (or very dark) headscarf. By scientifically triangulating (or just "eyeballing" for that matter) the people and objects visible in Zapruder as they appear in Betzner-3 and Willis-5 (and vice versa), it's obvious that the big, tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing woman in Zapruder is the same person as the black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing woman in Betzner-3 (whom you labeled "Glasses Woman" until you realized Gloria Calvery always wore large, black-framed glasses, and whom Chris Calvery identified to Brian Doyle as his mother), and that the "trilby" wearing man in both Zapruder and Willis-5 is Ernest Brant, who has previously been identified by the likes of Robin Unger and Dan Roberdeau, which identifications have never been challenged by anyone, afaik.

-- MWT  ;)

PS  You're the zeroes and ones guy.  Maybe you can do the "graphics" for us, or, if you want to, try to prove me wrong by showing how the "triangulations" don't work out the way I claim.

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1047 on: October 26, 2019, 10:58:35 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1048 on: October 27, 2019, 01:55:01 AM »
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until you realized Gloria Calvery always wore large, black-framed glasses,

 BS:

What’s your evidence that Calvery always wore large, black-framed glasses?

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and whom Chris Calvery identified to Brian Doyle as his mother),

Now I’m beginning to see your major flaw. You believe garbage that comes out of ”560 falsehoods and fabrications” mouth.

Quote
and that the "trilby" wearing man in both Zapruder and Willis-5 is Ernest Brant, who has previously been identified by the likes of Robin Unger and Dan Roberdeau, which identifications have never been challenged by anyone, afaik.

I guess you forgot to actually prove that’s Ernest Brandt. Oh right, he said he wore a hat.  :D

Not that it makes any difference as far as identifying Calvery goes. I guess you forgot that your “big, tall woman” isn’t visible in Willis-5.

Quote
PS  You're the zeroes and ones guy.  Maybe you can do the "graphics" for us, or, if you want to, try to prove me wrong by showing how the "triangulations" don't work out the way I claim.

Like I said, shifting the burden is your favorite logical fallacy.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1049 on: October 27, 2019, 02:56:15 AM »
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What’s your evidence that Calvery always wore large, black-framed glasses?

Now I’m beginning to see your major flaw. You believe garbage that comes out of ”560 falsehoods and fabrications” mouth.

I guess you forgot to actually prove that’s Ernest Brandt. Oh right, he said he wore a hat.  :D

Not that it makes any difference as far as identifying Calvery goes. I guess you forgot that your “big, tall woman” isn’t visible in Willis-5.

Like I said, shifting the burden is your favorite logical fallacy.


John,

1) Well, I doubt that she wore them to bed or while taking a shower, but let me ask you a question: Have you ever seen a photograph (I've seen 5 or 6 of them, iirc) of Gloria Calvery in which she wasn't wearing her big, black-framed glasses?

2) Isn't it against Forum rules to state or insinuate that another member is a liar? Question: Do you despise Brian Doyle so much that you disbelieve everything he says? Do you think he's totally incapable of telling the truth? If so, are you sure you aren't projecting?

3) Since we can see Zapruder up on the pillar in the background in Willis-5, and since we know where Phil Willis was standing when he took said photo, the positive identification of Ernest Brandt in that photo (and John Templin on his left), in conjunction with Unger's and Roberdeau's identification of Brandt and Templin in Zapruder, helps us establish that the black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing woman in Betzner-3 (whom you one labeled "Glasses Woman" in said photo) is the same person as the big, tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing woman in Zapruder, does it not?

-- MWT  ;)

PS  Oh yeah, what's the "common denominator" in human terms that the Zapruder film, Betzner-3 and Willis-5 have?

Answer:  Ernest Brandt's sidekick, 21 year-old John Templin.

Given the fact that Abraham Zapruder is visible in both Betzner-3 and Willis-5, and given the fact that we know where Hugh Betzner and Phil Willis were standing when they took their respective photographs, the fact that Templin's in all three photographic images serves to "link" all of the witnesses who were standing on the north side of Elm Street "about halfway between Houston Street and the Triple Underpass" and all of the physical structures visible on that side of the street into a mosaic-like-but-coherent reconstruction of where certain witnesses (like your erstwhile "Glasses Woman") were standing during the motorcade, and, perhaps more importantly, with whom.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 04:20:23 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Mrs Robert Reid
« Reply #1049 on: October 27, 2019, 02:56:15 AM »

 

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