JFK from Air Force 1 to Bethesda by helicopter

[Martin Weidmann]

Don't take my word for it. Here you go:

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Source - https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/livingstone-harrison-e-kaleidoscope

So you don't even have an opinion of your own. Got it...

First, the actual report does not say that the casket picked up by Boyajian’s men was President Kennedy’s.[67] In the one sentence that deals with the issue it is referred to only as “the casket”. As Livingstone properly notes, this is a serious fault with Horne’s claim. It is hard to believe that if Boyajian knew he was handling JFK’s casket, would he not write that down and specifically note that fact?

Further, there is a real problem of authentication as this report is not signed by Boyajian and there is no trace in the record as to why he did not sign it. There is a second page to the report that lists the ten men in the detail – none of which signed the document either. What makes it all a bit worse is that when the ARRB questioned Boyajian about whether he recalled picking up Kennedy’s casket, Boyajian couldn’t recall doing so.[68] In fact, he could not recall much at all about that day. And importantly, it does not appear that the report the ARRB had was the original document leading us to question as to whether or not that original was ever filed with the military.[69] All of this seems strange if the casket really was Kennedy’s.

What a pathetic load of barely circumstantial crap to build a "conclusion" on. The record is clear on this; Boyajian’s men brought a shipping casket in to the Bethesda morgue at 6.35. The mere circumstance that he did not write in his report (which btw is in the record as being authentic!) who was in the casket doesn't alter that fact. 

Additionally, Livingstone shows, if one lives in the area, as he did, it is very hard to understand how Horne could buy into this idea without questions. After all, Horne did live in Washington while working for the ARRB. As Livingstone describes it, the route through downtown Washington from Andrews AFB to Bethesda is about 18 miles.[70] But yet for the Boyajian report to say what Horne declares it says, somehow this transport traversed the 18 miles in about 20 minutes.[71] Unless the driver was proceeding at a continuous 60 MPH on city streets, this does not seem possible.

Which is why it was delivered by helicopter. Duh!

As Livingstone explains, Boyajian did not pick up Kennedy’s casket. Bethesda is also a morgue. It did not stop being so just because Kennedy was being transported there that day. Other military men died that day. After all, America was involved in a war. Livingstone interviewed several people who identified another person’s body being delivered to the morgue that day. There was no autopsy done and his body was being stored in the “Cold Room” for burial at Arlington.[72] The weight of the evidence seems to dictate that it was this person’s body that Boyajian’s detail picked up.

Too bad he doesn't name the other person who was delivered to the morgue that day. Nor does he give a time for the delivery. It seems there is no "weight of the evidence" at all! Just pure speculation.

All the piece above does is attack Horne. What it doesn't do is explain how Paul O'Connor, Jerrol Custer and others at the morgue saw Kennedy's body, in a body bag, being removed from a shipping casket. The same shipping casket the report from the funeral home said Kennedy's body had been removed from.

One guy's opinion about another guy's opinion isn't proof of anything. In other words, even when you hide behind a quote from someone else, you've got nothing. Care to try again?

[Michael Walton]

Marty - opinions don't matter. As you can see, I've posted some info for you here about why this theory is crazy. Some well-researched evidence to show that the cargo door didn't have a trapdoor and other things. Of course you're taking it all personally and this often happens with many CTers as well as LNers. As soon as you disagree with their often crazy ideas, they get all hurt and start whining and making it about them. I used to be a member of another forum and this happened all of the time until they kicked me off of that forum. But their ideas about what happened on 11/22 were just as ridiculous and outrageous as the dumb Dave Lifton body swap and alteration fairy tale.

This is not about me, Marty. It's about seeking the truth - the real truth - about the Kennedy murder. That's why I come here and go to other forums as well, Marty. So I can learn about evidence that shows that what happened that day didn't happen the way the official story told it. There's plenty of real-world evidence that shows that Oswald was not just some nobody who decided to take his gun into his workplace that and score three perfect shots that day. There were way too many coincidences for it to be mere happenstance.

But the murder didn't need some by-the-thousands-involved backstory to make it happen. There was simply no need to squirrel the body away, throw it down into the hold and alter the wounds. There was no need to find an Oswald lookalike in Europe 10 whole years before 11/22 - and to just so happen to have this European kid's Mom look exactly like the TX Oswald, to boot. There was no need to take the Z film and remove 67% of the frames of it to cover up something, when the unaltered film already shows that the shots didn't happen the way they said they happened. It's all just flat-lander, UFO-ish craziness. But you go right on ahead and believe whatever you want to believe while also remaining skeptical.

[Martin Weidmann]

Marty - opinions don't matter. As you can see, I've posted some info for you here about why this theory is crazy. Some well-researched evidence to show that the cargo door didn't have a trapdoor and other things. Of course you're taking it all personally and this often happens with many CTers as well as LNers. As soon as you disagree with their often crazy ideas, they get all hurt and start whining and making it about them. I used to be a member of another forum and this happened all of the time until they kicked me off of that forum. But their ideas about what happened on 11/22 were just as ridiculous and outrageous as the dumb Dave Lifton body swap and alteration fairy tale.

This is not about me, Marty. It's about seeking the truth - the real truth - about the Kennedy murder. That's why I come here and go to other forums as well, Marty. So I can learn about evidence that shows that what happened that day didn't happen the way the official story told it. There's plenty of real-world evidence that shows that Oswald was not just some nobody who decided to take his gun into his workplace that and score three perfect shots that day. There were way too many coincidences for it to be mere happenstance.

But the murder didn't need some by-the-thousands-involved backstory to make it happen. There was simply no need to squirrel the body away, throw it down into the hold and alter the wounds. There was no need to find an Oswald lookalike in Europe 10 whole years before 11/22 - and to just so happen to have this European kid's Mom look exactly like the TX Oswald, to boot. There was no need to take the Z film and remove 67% of the frames of it to cover up something, when the unaltered film already shows that the shots didn't happen the way they said they happened. It's all just flat-lander, UFO-ish craziness. But you go right on ahead and believe whatever you want to believe while also remaining skeptical.

Marty - opinions don't matter. As you can see, I've posted some info for you here about why this theory is crazy.

No, you've posted somebody else's very questional circumstantial opinion about something I wasn't even discussing with you.

Some well-researched evidence to show that the cargo door didn't have a trapdoor and other things.

Well-researched? Don't make me laugh. Anybody who, as I have, has been on board 26000 knows exactly what the situation is. Why do you think I called that part of Lifton's theory problematic?

Of course you're taking it all personally and this often happens with many CTers as well as LNers. As soon as you disagree with their often crazy ideas, they get all hurt and start whining and making it about them

Is the weather nice in fairyland? I didn't take anything personally, because there was nothing to take personally to begin with. You foolishly seem to believe that you disagree with an "idea" of mine, when no such "idea" exists or has ever been expressed!

I used to be a member of another forum and this happened all of the time until they kicked me off of that forum.

Well, when you start making up stuff about what another member opinion is, when that member has never expressed that opinion, perhaps you were kicked off for a reason.

This is not about me, Marty. It's about seeking the truth - the real truth - about the Kennedy murder.

Oh, but it is about you. You've already made up your mind which is why you started your first post in this thread with a complete dismissal.

Oh god, why do people keep thinking this and continue to talk about it? Why do plausibility and real-world events constantly get thrown out the window for some ridiculous fairy tale that Lifton cooked up and made a million bucks on?

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Why? Why do people still believe this crap?

and you haven't been willing to consider anything that doesn't agree with your point of view. So, please spare me the sanctimonious crap of only being here for the truth.

There's plenty of real-world evidence that shows that Oswald was not just some nobody who decided to take his gun into his workplace that and score three perfect shots that day. There were way too many coincidences for it to be mere happenstance.

And for once, you say something that I can agree with. 

But the murder didn't need some by-the-thousands-involved backstory to make it happen.

True.

There was simply no need to squirrel the body away, throw it down into the hold and alter the wounds. There was no need to find an Oswald lookalike in Europe 10 whole years before 11/22 - and to just so happen to have this European kid's Mom look exactly like the TX Oswald, to boot. There was no need to take the Z film and remove 67% of the frames of it to cover up something, when the unaltered film already shows that the shots didn't happen the way they said they happened. It's all just flat-lander, UFO-ish craziness.

To some extend I agree with this also. Some of the CT scenarios are just as outlandisch as the LN scenario. I take issue with a great deal of them. So, if you want to discuss "Harvey and Lee" type of scenarios and Z film alterations, I'm the wrong person to talk to.

But you go right on ahead and believe whatever you want to believe while also remaining skeptical.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? All I do is practice what you only preach. I do not dismiss an entire theory simply because I think part of that theory isn't plausible.

Whether you like it or not, the fact remains that there are too many witnesses who, independently from eachother and with nothing to gain, have combined confirmed that at Bethesda, Kennedy's body, in a body bag, was removed from a shipping casket. Nobody has ever come close to providing a plausible explanation for that.

So, even if the "body snatch on the plane" theory is wrong, it still needs to be explained how Kennedy's body ended up in a shipping casket. The "decoy" hypothetical I presented could offer that explanation, but you - as somebody who claims to be looking for the truth - have done everything you could so far not to discuss it.