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Author Topic: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley  (Read 15183 times)

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2019, 09:49:41 PM »
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Shot into the pavement, sure it will disintegrate then, but not shooting at a skull.

Same deal. Essentially a hard tissue stimulant.

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At best it would break up but no fragments of a jacketed bullet were found during the autopsy, only small particles that a frangible round makes.

According to tests done by Lattimer firing Carcano bullets, "the lead core and the gliding metal jacket separated on contact with the skull." "The broken bullet scattered dozens of tiny fragments of lead along the track of the bullet from back to front through the brain."

See: "Differences in the Wounding Behavior of the Two Bullets that Struck President Kennedy; An Experimental Study" (Wound Ballistics Review, 1996 Link )

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So the head shot was from a frangible round, not a jacketed round.  The entry hole goes along with this “theory”. The angle of entry says not from the TSBD.
The MFF site displays alright, but they want $35 to join.

I am able to browse for free, including the full PDF.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2019, 01:23:50 AM by Jerry Organ »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #48 on: August 31, 2019, 09:49:41 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2019, 10:00:43 PM »
AR-15 muzzle blast produces db167
Science says db167 can produce considerable ear damage
Did witnesses in QM hear the AR-15 firing?

The guys right beside Hickey, for instance

« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 10:15:44 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2019, 10:39:46 PM »
A jacketed bullet is not designed to disintegrate upon impact. The purpose of the jacket is to keep it together and hopefully go though more than one soldier in combat. I have personally fired jacketed bullets at 2x6 piece of wood and it went straight through and went through another 2x6 a short distance beyond sideways, you could see the profile of the bullet in the second 2x6 and again straight through. So the jacketed bullet does not disintegrate, at best it will break up into sizable pieces and they would have found them during the autopsy. What they found were very small particles representative of an AR15 round, not a 6.5mm carcano round. You also saw in the “smoking gun” video that the secret service directed a “technician” to tape fragment’s of a jacketed bullet to the x-rays trying to make it look like JFK was shot with a jacketed bullet.
The frangible round that came out of the AR15 is designed to disintegrate and usually explodes after penetration. If a bullet were designed to disintegrate on impact than theoretically all you would get is a skin abrasion, there would be no penetration of the skull. 
There have been others that have used computer analysis to show that the single bullet theory is possible
Your link only showed a cover page, no ballistics information

... hopefully go though more than one soldier in combat
>>> That's not the primary reason

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #50 on: August 31, 2019, 10:39:46 PM »


Offline Michael Carney

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #51 on: August 31, 2019, 11:18:09 PM »
“At a minimum, it shows the two people on the back seat are not standing nor holding the sizable AR-15. Certainly no one has their butt above the fold-down top.”
Looks to me like they are not sitting in seats, but sitting on the backrests of the seats. And I can’t see if Hickey is holding anything or not.
“They heard the gunshot reports. Just before or after the head shot, a siren came on so they would have been less likely to hear the sound of the acceleration of the two heavy stretch-limos. How much gunpowder smell does one little AR-15 round produce to fill up Elm Street?”
I am not sure if one shot would fill up Elm Street or not, I don’t know how it disperses. So it’s likely it mixed with exhaust fumes. But I can’t ever remember car exhaust smelling like gunpowder.
“Depends on whether one trusts Donahue's placement of Kennedy's head.”
I haven’t seen anyone shoot it down and he was an expert witness so I am sure he would know what he it talking about. I think it was Donahue that said the holes in the skull are always larger than the bullet.
Another thought I had is an M16 would not be a snipers choice. They are bush guns, with short barrels and not likely in wide distribution back in those days. First time I saw an M16 was in the Army in the spring of 66 and at that time the Army was using the M14 in Viet Nam. So I can’t imagine a civilian would have one in 63.

Offline Michael Carney

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2019, 02:23:31 AM »
Right, that's the purpose of a full metal jacket round.

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #52 on: September 01, 2019, 02:23:31 AM »


Offline Michael Carney

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #53 on: September 01, 2019, 09:22:43 PM »
“Same deal. Essentially a hard tissue stimulant.”
That doesn’t make any sense to me. Bullets are made to kill and a head shot is the best way to do it.
"According to tests done by Lattimer firing Carcano bullets, "the lead core and the gliding metal jacket separated on contact with the skull." "The broken bullet scattered dozens of tiny fragments of lead along the track of the bullet from back to front through the brain."

See: "Differences in the Wounding Behavior of the Two Bullets that Struck President Kennedy; An Experimental Study" (Wound Ballistics Review, 1996 Link )”
I could not find the article and your link brought up one of your pictures. What did he say about the copper jacket? Anyway you could email me the links, for some reason they aren’t working for me on here. Links to MFF, and Differences in wounding behavior…..

Offline Michael Carney

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2019, 09:28:23 PM »
 Hickey was standing up so it wouldn’t be like the muzzle was next to anyone’s ear. I don’t remember an M16 being very loud but then that was 50 years ago. And there was only one shot. They were looking outside the limo for a shooter so it would be easy enough not to know where the shot originated from.

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #54 on: September 01, 2019, 09:28:23 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2019, 01:41:36 AM »
“Same deal. Essentially a hard tissue stimulant.”
That doesn’t make any sense to me. Bullets are made to kill and a head shot is the best way to do it.
"According to tests done by Lattimer firing Carcano bullets, "the lead core and the gliding metal jacket separated on contact with the skull." "The broken bullet scattered dozens of tiny fragments of lead along the track of the bullet from back to front through the brain."

See: "Differences in the Wounding Behavior of the Two Bullets that Struck President Kennedy; An Experimental Study" (Wound Ballistics Review, 1996 Link )”
I could not find the article and your link brought up one of your pictures.

Sorry. I usually test links in "Preview". Here you go. It's a PDF document.

    "Differences in the Wounding Behavior of the Two Bullets that Struck
     President Kennedy; An Experimental Study"
     (Wound Ballistics Review, 1996 Link )

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What did he say about the copper jacket? Anyway you could email me the links, for some reason they aren’t working for me on here. Links to MFF, and Differences in wounding behavior…..

Lattimer used the term "gliding metal" for the jacket.

Copy the link ("Wound Ballistics of 6.5-mm Mannlicher-Carcano Ammunition": Technical Report by US Army Edgewood Arsenal) and paste it into the address window of a new browser tab, then hit return:

Code: [Select]
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62296