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is having a total Meltdown and chicken bones!  (Read 19473 times)

Online Sean Kneringer

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Scratch a liberal, find a fascist. Libs don't want to debate; they want to shut you up. Now they get to ban you while still enjoying the fruits of your website. Cowardly, but that's who they are.

Online Royell Storing

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   Some of You are More concerned with your feelings being hurt/reputations besmirched vs actually solving this case.  You should be bigger than this, but as they like to say in the South, "You ate up with it". Get over Yourself and get back to work. This case has NEVER has been about You.

Online Tom Scully

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Did so on the Forum.

It seems fair and certainly reasonable to consider a "do over". Delete the Gordon posts, restore David von Pein's login/posting access and endure the protests
of the agenda driven, ignorant, falsely indignant regardless of the intensity of their vitriol, but that will not happen, will it, Kathty?

Why do I assume I have standing to post such a moderate suggestion? John McAdams has damned me with faint praise!:

Quote
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/cAsvprrKbUQ%5B1-25%5D
Jeff Morley Won't Let Me Comment on JFKFacts
John McAdams
On 7 Sep 2016 19:55:16 -0400, TJ Scully

….While I had some major issues with you -- particularly you calling me
a racist merely because I come from Alabama -- it was true that when
you were moderator debate was quite wide open.


It's really poison when moderation is used to enforce a particular
substantive position on the assassination.

.John

The core, applicable point for this specific issues David finds himself caught up in is excerpted from the excerpted article immediately below this excerpt.:

Quote
If you need someone’s permission to quote them in order to argue against their position or expose them as a liar, you would likely never get that permission. And this type of criticism is precisely the purpose of Free Speech and Free Press rights in the first place.…...

Quote
https://www.whoishostingthis.com/resources/copyright-guide/
Copyright Law In 2019 Explained In One Page
by Frank Moraes   Last updated: June 27, 2019

…Why you should care
If you run a website you may have to deal with copyright law and related issues from two different sides: as a producer and as a consumer.
If you blog, take photographs, publish music, or otherwise produce copyrightable content, you legally own that content. Whether you want to let other people use it or not is your decision, and there are things you need to know and do in either case.…..

…Intellectual Property and Ownership…..

…This is the situation modern copyright seeks to correct, and it does so by assigning the exclusive right to make use of a work to the one who created it. It acts as a necessary and justified infringement on Freedom of Speech.….

…Copyright is automatic..

...Copyright happens automatically, the minute you set something into a “fixed form” — even if that fixed form is pen scratches on a legal pad. You automatically own the copyright to any creative work of art you produce, the minute you produce it....

….That © sign..
…The copyright symbol carries no legal weight and has no magical effect on the status of your copyright. Forgetting to use it does not cause you to lose your rights related to something you created.…..

Registering Copyright
Copyright happens automatically, so you don’t need to register a copyright. However, you may wish to do so....

…..Take legal action against someone who infringes on your copyright.
That last one is key. You cannot sue someone for infringing your copyright unless your copyright is registered.
If you expect to be suing people for infringement, you may want to register your copyright. Likewise, if you have no other way to prove the date of your creation (which may be the case for unpublished works), registration may be a good idea.
Registration of a copyright does not need to be immediate. If you can definitively establish the date of your authorship by other means, you can (in theory) wait to register your copyright until there is a reason to sue (that is, once someone has begun infringing on your work).

Poor Man’s Copyright.…
…The US Copyright office is very clear that mailing a copy of your work to yourself has no legal effect.….

……Copyright is a restriction on free speech.

…However, the restriction carries its own costs which may be harmful to society.
If you need someone’s permission to quote them in order to argue against their position or expose them as a liar, you would likely never get that permission. And this type of criticism is precisely the purpose of Free Speech and Free Press rights in the first place.……

….Fair Use is gray
It cannot be stressed enough: fair use is a gray area. There are some uses that are clearly Fair, and some that are clearly infringement, but ultimately Fair Use is determined by a judge if and only if a case is brought to trial, which rarely happens....

…..In England and the United Kingdom, the guidelines are more specific than in the US or Canada, similar to the Australian rules. Fair Dealing there is limited to:
Non-commercial research and private study
Criticism, review, and quotation

News reporting
Satire and parody
Illustration for teaching.

A snapshot in time of the page including your comment, IOW, not a "live" link to the page.:
http://archive.is/yGe5Y

(I assume Wikipedia has consulted lawyers who approve of this resource...)

Begs the question...can a non-U.S. person residing outside the U.S. declare content created by a U.S. person located in the U.S., copyrighted in the U.S.?

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Using_archive.is#Copyright_and_robots.txt
…..
Copyright and robots.txt[edit]
Archive.is removes archived pages by request of copyright holders per the U.S. DMCA;[5] requests can be made with the "Report abuse" link on archive.is archived pages. …...

Re-hosting U.S. copyrighted material without permission may be a violation of the U.S. Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) – for this reason, to avoid implicating Wikipedia in violations of copyright laws and incurring DMCA take-down requests, archive.is should be used with some caution regarding U.S.-copyrighted content.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 04:58:09 PM by Tom Scully »

Offline Kathy Becket

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Online Tom Scully

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It seems fair and certainly reasonable to consider a "do over". Delete the Gordon posts, restore David von Pein's login/posting access and endure the protests
of the agenda driven, ignorant, falsely indignant regardless of the intensity of their vitriol, but that will not happen, will it, Kathty?

Quote
If you need someone’s permission to quote them in order to argue against their position or expose them as a liar, you would likely never get that permission. And this type of criticism is precisely the purpose of Free Speech and Free Press rights in the first place.…...
…….

A rather fragile belief system? If it is perceived to require this level of protection from criticism, how robust could it be?

Quote
http://archive.is/yGe5Y
Posted 12 hours ago

I believe this matter may now be resolved. I will keep an eye out for him, but I believe DVD is no longer able to enter the site and therefore copy members work.
James

luddite: a person opposed to new technology or ways of working. "a small-minded Luddite resisting progress"

"DVD" ?? David "von Dasterdly" ??

Quote
The FBI is helpless, It is twenty stories tall. What can we do? Who can we call? Call Tobor, the Eighth Man. Call Tobor, the Eighth Man. Faster than a rocket. Quicker than a jet. He's the mighty ...

A temporary, "poor man's" solution affording you a secondary IP#....

Quote
Free VPN | Browser with built-in VPN | Download | Opera
https://www.opera.com/computer/features/free-vpn
Looking for more privacy online? Opera browser now integrates a free, unlimited VPN feature. Download Opera with built-in VPN at the official opera.com site.

Katey bar the door! We must shut down the forum and remove all of its content! Critic von Pein cannot be stopped from trespassing against us!

Can nothing stop CT critic von Pein from obtaining the drug he craves....our forum posts?
https://web.archive.org/web/20190814200846/http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/forum/126-jfk-assassination-debate/
« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 07:17:50 PM by Tom Scully »

Offline Otto Beck

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From the

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Forum.....

KIRK GALLAWAY SAID:

I think everyone has a right to post here [at The

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]. I think DVP and others, including sometimes myself, have a useful critical function that is otherwise lacking here. I understand people don't want to be quoted out of context. Though it happens all the time in forums like these. The only way it can reflect badly is with other LNers who might frequent DVP's site. Do we have to take ourselves that seriously? Why do we really care that much about what they think?

Still, because I look at DVP's website very infrequently, I can't say how fair he is in these reconstructed arguments. I can imagine some might feel like they are unfairly quoted out of context to be used as a foil for DVP. After all, DVP's central aim is to gain a following by using chosen examples to portray himself as a credible critic of a JFK conspiracy who wins every argument, so what is the purpose of using his opponent's names at all? A compromise could be that DVP agrees to release the forum source, but not specifically the names of the people he was debating unless specifically given consent.


JAMES R. GORDON SAID:

Kirk,

I do not believe DVP credits the source of his material. As

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has posted above, DVP was asked to remove the material. On its own, I understand that would have ended the matter. DVP refused to comply.

True, DVP has done this for years, but I believe the atmosphere has changed and members are now much more guarded about how their material is used. Because of this argument I have looked at DVP's site. It appears to me that the material DVP copies is taken out of context and edited by him to support the thread he is creating. In doing that he is clearly changing what the

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members originally thought and believe and therefore DVP has changed what

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members posted on this forum.

Hopefully the

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will now make it impossible for him to continue to do this.

Finally Kirk, you are absolutely right, everyone has a right to post their opinions here. But DVP has two opinions. There are the posts he used to make here on threads here. Then there is the opinion that is shaped by him - using

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members contributions - to create a narrative on another website for which we have no editing rights. And the narrative on his site does not reflect what was originally said on this website.


DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Since I can no longer respond directly to the numerous lies that James Gordon just gushed forth, I'll post my response at Duncan MacRae's forum instead. (Thank you, Duncan.) ....

Gordon said: "I do not believe DVP credits the source of his material."

That's Lie #1. I give credit to tons of "sources" for the material I post, with links being presented by the dozen. But, actually, I'm not sure what kind of "source credit" Gordon is even referring to here. If he's talking about sourcing the original discussion threads from which I copy posts from the

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forum, then it's an even bigger lie being told by Gordon, because (as I have said many times before) I always provide a link to the original (source)

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thread at the bottom of all of my webpages.

Gordon said: "I believe the atmosphere has changed and members are now much more guarded about how their material is used."

Yeah, that must be why

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said this to me just three short days ago:

"Not many care what you yack about in the first place anyway." -- B.

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Gordon said: "It appears to me that the material DVP copies is taken out of context. .... In doing that he is clearly changing what the

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members originally thought and believe and therefore DVP has changed what

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members posted on this forum."

I strongly resent such a charge. Furthermore, it's a really stupid charge in the first place. Since I am merely taking verbatim quotes from the

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forum over to my own site, Gordon must actually think I'm some sort of Houdini or David Copperfield, in that I am apparently able to take those verbatim CTer quotes and (somehow) change the entire belief structure of the conspiracy theorist being quoted. Even though, keep in mind, the quotes are the EXACT VERBATIM WORDS that were written by the CTer at the

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forum before I copied them to another Internet location.

I guess I'm more powerful than I thought! Unbelievable!

In other words --- James R. Gordon is full of

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. It appears to me as if he has been significantly influenced by the other conspiracy theorists at the

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forum who also contend that I have taken things "out of context" and have literally "changed" what CTers have posted at the

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forum. But regardless of which CTer utters such garbage, it's still going to be garbage (and a lie).

Gordon said: "DVP has two opinions. There are the posts he used to make here on threads here. Then there is the opinion that is shaped by him - using

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members contributions - to create a narrative on another website for which we have no editing rights. And the narrative on his site does not reflect what was originally said on this website."

More lies. See my last comments above. Plus, Gordon should re-read this comment I aimed at him earlier today at the

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forum....

"With regard to the particular JFK sub-topics that I have chosen to engage various CTers on...I have "changed" NOTHING that was in any original quote written by any CTer on The

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." -- DVP

And the bunk about me having "two opinions" on various JFK matters is just...well...bizarre (to say the least).

Where on this Earth did Gordon get the idea that my basic "opinions" about any aspect of the JFK murder case somehow change between the time I post my thoughts at The

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and when I re-post those EXACT SAME VERBATIM COMMENTS at my website?

The only response I can possibly muster after reading such a bizarre allegation is this one....

WTF?


When you have finished with your rants don't forget to click the Donate button!

Offline Thomas Graves

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Thumb1: Thumb1: Thumb1:

Steve,

EDIT:

Seein' as how you're a big Trump supporter, maybe you should consider relocating to the so-called

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so that James "Jumbo Duh"

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and "Robert Wheeler," et al., can convert you to some sort of Putin-and-Trump-benefiting CT.

--  MWT   ;)

« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 01:57:15 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Rick Plant

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My thanks to John and Steve for their support.

If you want to see the

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madness in action, go here....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2019/08/jfk-assassination-arguments-part-1330.html

BTW & FTR [For The Record]....

Forum owner/moderator James R. Gordon officially kicked me off of The

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(and prohibited me from logging in and posting any additional comments) as of approximately 11:40 PM EDT on August 26th, 2019.


David, I want to commend you on your outstanding site with all the JFK material you archived, including all the amazing Cincinnati Reds games you assembled.  Great stuff you have and I plan on viewing more of it. 

Seems to me, that a certain couple of individuals were using your taking of posts off the site and archiving it on your site as an excuse to remove you as a member. There are no "copyright laws" when an individual posts on a public forum.  Anything they choose to post is fair game and can be used by anybody who views that site. Just like when a individual sends out a tweet on Twitter, any person can quote the tweet and offer their own rebuttal. Not sure why they would be angry over that fact, unless they didn't like appearing to be wrong on your site for all to see.

Gordon trying to add his own "copyright law" is a total joke and basically they have no right to remove you as a member on the grounds they claim presents a "violation". There is nothing that is prohibited by using quotes from what another person posted.

Anyway, if you still want to view their site, you can use a free VPN and they won't be able to block you from viewing any material. Gordon has failed and clearly doesn't know what he is doing. 

Offline Rick Plant

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Scratch a liberal, find a fascist. Libs don't want to debate; they want to shut you up. Now they get to ban you while still enjoying the fruits of your website. Cowardly, but that's who they are.

Sorry, it's the right wingers who are the fascists who try to silence the opposition through intimidation and false representation. When pro NFL Football players took a knee during the anthem to bring awareness to police brutality, it was Donald Trump and his racist hatemongers who falsely misrepresented what the players were doing  demanding boycotts of the NFL and trying to silence an individual's freedom of speech through direct intimidation. Learn what your're talking about before you post false comments.

Offline David Von Pein

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David, I want to commend you on your outstanding site with all the JFK material you archived, including all the amazing Cincinnati Reds games you assembled.  Great stuff you have and I plan on viewing more of it. 

Seems to me, that a certain couple of individuals were using your taking of posts off the site and archiving it on your site as an excuse to remove you as a member. There are no "copyright laws" when an individual posts on a public forum.  Anything they choose to post is fair game and can be used by anybody who views that site. Just like when a individual sends out a tweet on Twitter, any person can quote the tweet and offer their own rebuttal. Not sure why they would be angry over that fact, unless they didn't like appearing to be wrong on your site for all to see.

Gordon trying to add his own "copyright law" is a total joke and basically they have no right to remove you as a member on the grounds they claim presents a "violation". There is nothing that is prohibited by using quotes from what another person posted.

Anyway, if you still want to view their site, you can use a free VPN and they won't be able to block you from viewing any material. Gordon has failed and clearly doesn't know what he is doing.

Thanks, Rick. But I'm still able to view the

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site (as of right now anyway). Evidently Gordon didn't block me like he think he did. I can't "log in", but I can view every thread.

Re: Copyright....

What do you say about this (below)? Does this apply to people posting stuff on "Internet Forums" or not? ~shrug~....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Is+everything+automatically+copyrighted%3F&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwja66zK1KTkAhVSba0KHST2DQ4Qzmd6BAgLEAo&biw=1280&bih=578


« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 05:00:13 AM by David Von Pein »

 

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