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Author Topic: A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum  (Read 2338 times)

Offline Thomas Graves

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A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« on: August 15, 2019, 03:30:32 AM »
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I'm taking the liberty of posting, here, something Lance Payette posted at the EF a few hours ago.  (I hope he doesn't mind.)

.....


I'm surprised how many students of the assassination seemingly have not read Oswald: Russian Episode by Ernst Titovets, Oswald’s closest friend in Minsk.  (Yes, I know it has been discussed here in the past.)

There is absolutely no reason for a CTer to be suspicious of Titovets, http://www.etitovets.com/Titovets_dream.html.  From 2005 to the present time, he has been Head of the Scientific Research Group,  National Research and Clinical Center for Neurology and Neurosurgery in Minsk.  He has made clear that he does not believe that the humorous, “crazy kid” prankster he knew would or could have assassinated JFK.  ([But then again,] I would not have believed that my college roommate, best man, best friend and Christian mentor would or could have ended up rotting in prison for child molestation and spewing Marxist/atheist polemics – but, alas, he did.)

Titovets’ fascinating book unwittingly gives many insights into why Oswald was precisely the sort of loose cannon who might impulsively shoot JFK.  I will highlight only one.

I've mentioned previously that my wife’s sister and her late husband spent their entire working lives in the militarily sensitive section of the Minsk Radio and Television Factory.  The husband was contemporaneous with Oswald (but never met him), the sister just a few years later.  The security throughout the factory was intense, in the way only Soviet security could be.  No one in his right mind would have attempted any sort of funny business unless he had a death wish.

One day when Titovets visited Oswald in his apartment, Oswald surprised him with a curious metal cylinder.  Both men pretty well knew the apartment was bugged by the KGB (as it was).  Oswald nevertheless conversed with Titovets about the appropriate chemicals for making a bomb (Titovets then being a student researcher in the Department of Chemistry at the Minsk State Medical Institute).  To the relief of Titovets, the subject was never mentioned again.

Years later, Titovets described and drew the cylinder for two men who had also been at the Minsk factory.  Both immediately (and separately) recognized it as a key component of a military device that Oswald could only have pilfered from a work bench in the experimental shop at the factory (where Oswald was assigned for a period and which was not quite as mysterious as “experimental shop” sounds).  Because the security was so intense and no one could have left with so much as a pilfered box of paper clips, the only explanation was that the Soviets had planted the cylinder, allowed Oswald to walk away with it, and waited to see what he would do.

The points are:

1.  To do what Oswald did, both in taking the cylinder and discussing a bomb with Titovets, you would have to be a complete and utter loose cannon.  You did not play games with the Soviets.  I don't know what weird game Oswald thought he was playing, but he could very plausibly have ended up dead or breaking rocks in Siberia for the next 50 years.  You can only imagine the astonishment of the KGB when, instead of finding a way to get the device to some mysterious CIA contact, Oswald brazenly discussed making a bomb in his bugged apartment with a respectable Soviet chemistry student:  “Who or what on earth is this guy???  Who in their right mind would do this???”  After this and numerous other incidents, the KGB pretty clearly decided he was simply a loose cannon they would be happy to see leave.

2. What sort of CIA intelligence operative would have done this, would have taken such insane risks for no purpose (not to mention ridiculing his co-workers' worship of Lenin, making fun of Soviet propaganda, teasing co-workers about what sheeple they were, flaunting his disdain for required meetings and activities, and on and on)?  No intelligence operative would have done this.  A complete and utter loose cannon?  Apparently.

When I was finished with Titovets’ book, I saw exactly the sort of self-absorbed, grandiose, risk-addicted loose cannon who might well have taken shots at Walker and Kennedy as his marital and fantasy world collapsed around him.  Things like Titovets’ book, which is only one of several (but probably the best) insights into the actual Lee Harvey Oswald, just makes the typical “conspiracy Oswald” – CIA operative, anti-Castro zealot and general International Man of Mystery – absolutely ridiculous.  You are welcome to disagree, but I have yet to see one conspiracy theory in which Oswald was anything like the actual man, anything other than a cartoon caricature that is inserted into the Grand Conspiracy wherever we can make this cardboard cut-out fit.

.....

-- MWT  ;)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 04:55:16 AM by Thomas Graves »

JFK Assassination Forum

A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« on: August 15, 2019, 03:30:32 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2019, 07:06:35 PM »
He was continuously testing the waters to see how far he could go. Here is one of his more philosophical ideas and LHO in a nutshell (no pun intended):


"I wonder what would happen if somebody was to stand up and say he was utterly opposed not only to the governments, but to the people, too the entire land and complete foundations of his socically."  Lee Harvey Oswald - 1962 (CE 25, 16 H 106.)

Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2019, 06:17:02 PM »
In Norman Mailer's book, "Oswald's Ghost", one of the KGB agents assigned to monitor Oswald said he later examined the item and determined that it was a toy. Assuming, that is, that he was referring to the same device (apparently Oswald made two). It's interesting to note that this incident (again, if it's the same one as the one above) occurred AFTER Oswald requested a return to the USSR.

And Marina later said (in the McMillan book) that they knew the KGB was monitoring their conversations and activity (as they were). I find it odd that Oswald would think he could build a real bomb without them knowing about it.

The account from Mailer's book follows:

« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 04:35:21 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2019, 06:17:02 PM »


Online Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2019, 07:02:15 PM »
He was continuously testing the waters to see how far he could go. Here is one of his more philosophical ideas and LHO in a nutshell (no pun intended):


"I wonder what would happen if somebody was to stand up and say he was utterly opposed not only to the governments, but to the people, too the entire land and complete foundations of his socically."  Lee Harvey Oswald - 1962 (CE 25, 16 H 106.)
Gerald Posner cites some (unnamed) KGB agents as stating that they believed Oswald built the devices to "force the issue of his [and Marina's] exit visas". Apparently the incident took place shortly after he requested them in his attempt to return to the US.

Mailer cites numerous KGB agents (he interviewed over a dozen) who were assigned to monitor Oswald as saying they simply tired of him and were glad when he decided to leave. They were worried about some type of incident - maybe this was what Oswald was hoping for? - that would draw attention to themselves. One thing they said they learned growing up under Stalin was to not draw notice to yourself (many city/party officials in Minsk were murdered during Stalin's "Great Terror"). So, just do your job, keep your head down, and be quiet. When Oswald decided to leave they said "Good riddance."
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 08:08:27 PM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Denis Pointing

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Re: A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 11:27:02 PM »
(My avatar acknowledges your constant "chest pounding". BTW, lavender does look attractive on you,

Tom Scully, I demand to know how you got that photo of me!! I only dress like that at weekends.  :D :D   
« Last Edit: August 20, 2019, 11:28:29 PM by Denis Pointing »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: A Thought-Provoking Post At The So-Called Education Forum
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2019, 11:27:02 PM »