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Author Topic: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!  (Read 13283 times)

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #110 on: August 21, 2019, 01:07:05 AM »
Yes! Yes! Yes!

The Cold War is over!

-- MWT  ;)

Wise men know when to keep their mouths shut..

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #111 on: August 21, 2019, 01:32:46 AM »
Wise men know when to keep their mouths shut..

"A wise man learns from others' mistakes, the average man learns from his own mistakes, and then, of course, there's Michael Clark."

-- ancient proverb
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 01:33:30 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #112 on: August 21, 2019, 01:34:33 AM »
From Richards Heuer’s:   Nosenko: Five paths to judgement

Golitsyn elaborated on this report with his own speculation, which played a major role in development of the master plot theory. (It should be noted at this point that Golitsyn was a highly egocentric individual with an extremely conspiratorial turn of mind; after his defection, he became certifiably paranoid.) Golitsyn felt that his information was so important and damaging to the KGB that the Soviets would feel compelled to send out another source to discredit him or his information. In short, Golitsyn predicted the appearance of someone like Nosenko as a KGB plant. Golitsyn also predicted that a KGB penetration of American intelligence would be assisted by other KGB agents, false - defectors and double agents-who would provide information designed to bolster the penetration's position and access in the service. The penetration, in turn, would be in a position to help authenticate the other agents. Golitsyn's speculation became the core of the master plot theory.

Full Transcription: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25943-richards-heuer-nosenko-five-paths-to-judgement/?tab=comments#comment-405084.


Online Thomas Graves

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #113 on: August 21, 2019, 01:49:29 AM »
From Richards Heuer’s:   Nosenko: Five paths to judgement

Golitsyn elaborated on this report with his own speculation, which played a major role in development of the master plot theory. (It should be noted at this point that Golitsyn was a highly egocentric individual with an extremely conspiratorial turn of mind; after his defection, he became certifiably paranoid.) Golitsyn felt that his information was so important and damaging to the KGB that the Soviets would feel compelled to send out another source to discredit him or his information. In short, Golitsyn predicted the appearance of someone like Nosenko as a KGB plant. Golitsyn also predicted that a KGB penetration of American intelligence would be assisted by other KGB agents, false - defectors and double agents-who would provide information designed to bolster the penetration's position and access in the service. The penetration, in turn, would be in a position to help authenticate the other agents. Golitsyn's speculation became the core of the master plot theory.

Full Transcription: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25943-richards-heuer-nosenko-five-paths-to-judgement/?tab=comments#comment-405084.

Michael,

Do you truly believe Nosenko was a true defector, or are you just putting me on?

-- MWT  ;)

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #114 on: August 21, 2019, 01:55:49 AM »
Michael,

Do you truly believe Nosenko was a true defector, or are you just putting me on?

-- MWT  ;)

Quoting MWT because: “Which makes it all the more puzzling why so many Forum members take the bait and keep engaging this barnacle (Thomas) in discussions he will only warp through subsequent editing anyway.” From post 103.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #115 on: August 21, 2019, 02:05:40 AM »
Quoting MWT because: “Which makes it all the more puzzling why so many Forum members take the bait and keep engaging this barnacle (Thomas) in discussions he will only warp through subsequent editing anyway.” From post 103.

Michael,

Have you read this New York Times book review yet?

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/books/review/Thomas-t.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR3DFCdKLxdD1th4r92OnDOqYywS1KJYo75lHfM4pKwyb_zQyFsqPRM8YNs

The author of the book, Tennent H. Bagley, has some juicy criticisms of your boy John L. Hart, author of "The Hart Report," aka "The Monster Plot Report," in it.  In the book, that is.
https://archive.org/details/SpyWarsMolesMysteriesAndDeadlyGames

Cheers!

-- MWT. ;)


« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:42:01 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #116 on: August 21, 2019, 02:10:18 AM »
From Richards Heuer’s:   Nosenko: Five paths to judgement

Some of these assumptions were erroneous - based on an exaggerated view of overall KGB capabilities. This made possible a series of discoveries of "duplicity" by Nosenko and other counterintelligence sources who could rarely measure up to CIA's expectations of what they ought to have known, accomplished, or said. An important example concerns the gaps in Nosenko's knowledge of operations against the American Embassy in 1960 and 1961, while he was deputy chief of the responsible section. The interrogators developed their own job description for a deputy chief of a section, then used this as a criterion for judging what Nosenko should have known. The job description was faulty, as it was based on the American concept of a deputy who is fully informed, has authority paralleling the chief, and who automatically fills in for the chief when he is absent.

Full Transcription: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25943-richards-heuer-nosenko-five-paths-to-judgement/?tab=comments#comment-405084.

« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:12:22 AM by Michael Clark »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #117 on: August 21, 2019, 02:24:57 AM »
From Richards Heuer’s:   Nosenko: Five paths to judgement

Some of these assumptions were erroneous - based on an exaggerated view of overall KGB capabilities. This made possible a series of discoveries of "duplicity" by Nosenko and other counterintelligence sources who could rarely measure up to CIA's expectations of what they ought to have known, accomplished, or said. An important example concerns the gaps in Nosenko's knowledge of operations against the American Embassy in 1960 and 1961, while he was deputy chief of the responsible section. The interrogators developed their own job description for a deputy chief of a section, then used this as a criterion for judging what Nosenko should have known. The job description was faulty, as it was based on the American concept of a deputy who is fully informed, has authority paralleling the chief, and who automatically fills in for the chief when he is absent.

Full Transcription: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/25943-richards-heuer-nosenko-five-paths-to-judgement/?tab=comments#comment-405084.

Michael,

You don't read The New York Times?
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/books/review/Thomas-t.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR3DFCdKLxdD1th4r92OnDOqYywS1KJYo75lHfM4pKwyb_zQyFsqPRM8YNs

Way too "Deep State-ish" for you and James "Jumbo Duh" DiEugenio at the so-called Education Forum?

--  MWT   ;)


« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:28:45 AM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Clark

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #118 on: August 21, 2019, 02:38:55 AM »
Michael,

You don't read The New York Times?
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/books/review/Thomas-t.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR3DFCdKLxdD1th4r92OnDOqYywS1KJYo75lHfM4pKwyb_zQyFsqPRM8YNs

.......

--  MWT   ;)

MWT, why don’t you give us a critical analysis, instead of posting a link over and over and over and over again? It’s probably because your such a small person inside; afraid that he is putting himself out there, facing criticism: and I mean the real criticism, that you might be wrong, and your reasoning is unsound. I’m not talking about the “criticism” that engaging you is a creepy, dirty ordeal, “Mud Wrassler Tommy”, we know that you thrive on that.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:45:52 AM by Michael Clark »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: The Monster Plot, by CIA's Very Own KGB Apologist John L. Hart!
« Reply #119 on: August 21, 2019, 02:46:41 AM »
MWT, why don’t you give us a critical analysis, instead of posting a link over and over and over and over again?

Michael,

Because Evan Thomas writes so much better than I do.

And because I figure you're much more likely to listen to him than you are to me.

And because, like you, I'm not very good at critical analysis, or even ... gasp ... rebutting other peoples' arguments with my own words.

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/03/books/review/Thomas-t.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR3DFCdKLxdD1th4r92OnDOqYywS1KJYo75lHfM4pKwyb_zQyFsqPRM8YNs

Cheers!

--  MWT   ;)
« Last Edit: August 21, 2019, 02:49:08 AM by Thomas Graves »

 

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