First shot reactions

[Jerry Organ]

Shaw died in 1992. So he must have figured it out all on his own.



So you believe the CT cartoons? No surprise there.
What CT cartoons are you speaking about?

There's one in the Shaw video. Didn't you play it?

Shaw was simply drawing based on the trajectory and seating positions which are entirely consistent with the evidence.

LOL! Shaw knows as much about how they were seated in a 3D environment as you do.

Your drawing on the right speaks for itself:

Thank you. Most would probably notice how much more accurate it is compared to the Z-film than yours is.

the bullet has to go left to right after exiting JFK to reach JBC's right armpit.

My trajectory doesn't turn. It's crossing left-to-right and downward, just like your trajectory. When was the last time you had your eyes checked?

[Andrew Mason]

There's one in the Shaw video. Didn't you play it?

Yes, but I didn't see a CT cartoon. This was Shaw's drawing:



Put the legs a bit farther apart and turn the torso to the right and you can see the trajectory to JBC's left thigh.  The curved path represents the path required by the SBT - a path that struck and destroyed two different bones.  Dr Shaw had treated bullet wounds in war zones.  He had seen a lot of bullet damage and a lot of the bullets that had done the damage. He had NEVER seen a bullet that had done so much bone damage looking anything like CE399.

LOL! Shaw knows as much about how they were seated in a 3D environment as you do.

I am sure he asked Nellie where her husband was seated and where the President was seated.  He knows human anatomy and knows that a right armpit is right of the midline.

My trajectory doesn't turn. It's crossing right-to-left and downward, just like your trajectory. When was the last time you had your eyes checked?

So - without moving the men - let's see the views from above and from the side so we can check the angles.  There is no way that the line you have drawn goes from right to left at about 9 degrees and intersects JBC's right armpit.

[Bill Chapman]

    Yes ladies and gentlemen. Focus your Complete Attention on "the butt end" of the bullet while David Copperfield marches his behind the curtain Elephant Off of the stage.

You lot are the ones with the smoke & mirrors. Keep dodging, Royelle.

Yes, lurkers & lurkettes, focus your attention on the the fact that the head-shot missile was travelling at supersonic speed and struck the back of the head nose-first, while the twofer (CE399) lost most of its momentum while passing through-and-through both victims by the time it hit the wrist. Nose-first or not, it lacked the impact force to explode.

Still waiting for you to post the butt-end view of CE399 and explain why you insist on calling it 'pristine'

C'mon Royelle, walk the walk...

[Jerry Freeman]

For the umptyhundreth time..CE 399 was fired into something [probably an old mattress]-- But wrist bones ..ribs..backs... necks..clothing?

Mr. SPECTER - Now, without respect to whether or not the bullet identified as Commission Exhibit 399 is or is not the one which inflicted the wound on the Governor, is it possible that a missile similar to the one which I have just described in the hypothetical question could have inflicted all of the Governor's wounds in accordance with the theory which you have outlined on Commission Exhibit No. 689?
Dr. SHAW - Assuming that it also had passed through the President's neck you mean?
Mr. SPECTER - No; I had not added that factor in. I will in the next question.
Dr. SHAW - All right. As far as the wounds of the chest are concerned, I feel that this bullet could have inflicted those wounds. But the examination of the wrist both by X-ray and at the time of surgery showed some fragments of metal that make it difficult to believe that the same missile could have caused these two wounds. There seems to be more than three grains of metal missing as far as the I mean in the wrist.
Mr. SPECTER - Your answer there, though, depends upon the assumption that the bullet which we have identified as Exhibit 399 is the bullet which did the damage to the Governor. Aside from whether or not that is the bullet which inflicted the Governor's wounds.
Dr. SHAW - I see.
Mr. SPECTER - Could a bullet traveling in the path which I have described in the prior hypothetical question, have inflicted nil of the wounds on the Governor?
Dr. SHAW - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - And so far as the velocity and the dimension of the bullet are concerned, is it possible that the same bullet could have gone through the President in the way that I have described and proceed through the Governor causing all of his wounds without regard to whether or not it was bullet 399?
Dr. SHAW - Yes.
Mr. SPECTER - When you started to comment about it not being possible, was that in reference to the existing mass and shape of bullet 399?
Dr. SHAW - I thought you were referring directly to the bullet shown as Exhibit 399.

Gee..anythings possible --Hypothetically speaking that is.......

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

Show us where CE399 struck either of the two large wrist bones nose-first. Show us where the butt-end view of CE399 (go ahead, post the-butt view of CE399... I dare you) fits any reasonable description of being in 'pristine' condition.

You don't need to get all excited, especially when you are wrong. You have no reason  to make any conclusions when the FBI tests were worthless

[Jerry Organ]

Yes, but I didn't see a CT cartoon. This was Shaw's drawing:



Put the legs a bit farther apart and turn the torso to the right and you can see the trajectory to JBC's left thigh. 

So, other than the left thigh and torso, you've modeled the CT non-cartoon ...



... And you think it bears some resemblance to reality?

The curved path represents the path required by the SBT - a path that struck and destroyed two different bones. 

I have not seen that claimed to be the SBT path by the WC or LNers. Many CTs and maybe one-or-two LNers with sight-impairment claim it to be.

Dr Shaw had treated bullet wounds in war zones.  He had seen a lot of bullet damage and a lot of the bullets that had done the damage. He had NEVER seen a bullet that had done so much bone damage looking anything like CE399.

Too bad he hadn't talked to Dr. Lattimer.

I am sure he asked Nellie where her husband was seated and where the President was seated.  He knows human anatomy and knows that a right armpit is right of the midline.

So - without moving the men - let's see the views from above and from the side so we can check the angles.

Rather than thinking up subterfuges you deem me capable of, how about you try to depict the "correct" trajectory using 3D figures and elements that match more closely those seen in the Zapruder film?

There is no way that the line you have drawn goes from right to left at about 9 degrees and intersects JBC's right armpit.

If you ever position the two men correctly, you might find out. But everything has gotten shoehorned to fit your pet theory.

[Bill Chapman]

You don't need to get all excited, especially when you are wrong. You have no reason  to make any conclusions when the FBI tests were worthless

I conclude that CE399 is not pristine
No FBI tests required for that observation

[Peter Kleinschmidt]

I conclude that CE399 is not pristine
No FBI tests required for that observation

I don't care either because it is just another bullet they can't link to the case. Oh forgive me I mean the case of planted evidence