First shot reactions

[Thomas Graves]

Sorry. Z334 should read Z134. The position in "JFK: The Lost Bullet" where the limousine is stopped for PA Donaldson and Euins to give their comments corresponds to about Z134 (per Dale K Myers). The documentary does not mention that. Where did you think the "Lost Bullet" limousine was stopped for PA Donaldson/Euins?



To get the limousine into position for Holland's first-shot theory, the limousine would have to roll back 1.5 seconds.

About all the two "corroborate" is that the limousine at Z134 is about in the general area when the first shot occurred (Euins: "about where it's at right now" "right as it passed"; PA Donaldson: "approx where - I - the car was in this position when I heard the first shot"). Thing are so vague it could be a second or two after Z134, Earlier than Z134, I don't see so easily.

Holland instead makes it sound like something precise is occurring. Holland claims Euins could locate the limousine "at a specific point in time, just as the president passed a black and white sign" (when he says that, in the background the limousine is stopped where his theory would have it). The only black and white sign Euins ever specifically referenced was the one in 1963 that is presumed to be the Thornton freeway sign. Euins said the car "got near" the sign, not (per Holland) had "passed" it.

And I don't hear Euins say the first shot occurred "just as" the limousine passed the sign cluster. Holland says that. We're not told why Euins is talking about the sign cluster; yes, he is pointing to it, but why? Because Holland said Euins said the limousine had just passed the sign cluster? Sure, Holland would love to have Euins say the first shot occurred as the car passed the sign cluster because that gets the car back to beneath the traffic light sign arm.

Almost like witness tampering? How conservative is Max Holland? Is he getting pointers from Fox News?

Jerry,

Approximately how many feet farther down Elm Street from Z134 do you believe the limo was when the first shot rang out?

Thanks,
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy   

[Jerry Organ]

Jerry,

Approximately how many feet farther down Elm Street from Z134 do you believe the limo was when the first shot rang out?

Thanks,
-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy   

I guess about 20 to 25 feet.

[Thomas Graves]

I guess about 20 to 25 feet.

How many seconds past Holland's putative "first shot" would that be?

Hard to say?

-- MWT 

[Jerry Organ]

How many seconds past Holland's putative "first shot" would that be?

Hard to say?

-- MWT 

In "Lost Bullet", Holland claims the first shot occurs as the President went beneath the right-lower corner of the traffic light assembly hanging at the end of the arm.

Holland claims the total shooting sequence was 11.3 seconds (about 207 Zapruder frames). Working back from Z313, Holland's first shot is about 27 frames (1.5 sec) before Z133. The Euins/PA Donaldson segments in "Lost Bullet" show the limousine stopped at Z134 (possibly Holland was trying for Z133 as he once used that as a reference point).

From Z134 to Z157 (approx. first shot proposed by some LNers) is 1.3 sec. Therefore, Holland's first shot is 2.8 seconds before the area most LNers place the first shot.

[Thomas Graves]

In "Lost Bullet", Holland claims the first shot occurs as the President went beneath the right-lower corner of the traffic light assembly hanging at the end of the arm.

Holland claims the total shooting sequence was 11.3 seconds (about 207 Zapruder frames). Working back from Z313, Holland's first shot is about 27 frames (1.5 sec) before Z133. The Euins/PA Donaldson segments in "Lost Bullet" show the limousine stopped at Z134 (possibly Holland was trying for Z133 as he once used that as a reference point).

From Z134 to Z157 (approx. first shot proposed by some LNers) is 1.3 sec. Therefore, Holland's first shot is 2.8 seconds before the area most LNers place the first shot.

Jerry,

At which Z-frame do you believe the first shot occurred?

--  MWT 

[Jerry Organ]

Jerry,

At which Z-frame do you believe the first shot occurred?

--  MWT 

I can't be bother with this. Goodbye.

[Thomas Graves]

I can't be bother (sic) with this. Goodbye.

Jerry,

I'm just trying to figure out what you believe.

1)  Which Z-frame do you believe correlates with the first shot?

2)  Do you believe James Tague was injured by the first shot?

3)  If not, then which shot was he injured by?

Thanks,
--  MWT   

[Jerry Organ]

Jerry,

I'm just trying to figure out what you believe.

And it's alright if you don't answer questions.

1)  Which Z-frame do you believe correlates with the first shot?

No specific frame. I believe Connally's rapid rightward head turn beginning Z162 suggests a first shot fired a few frames earlier. This has been gone over by me in this topic repeatedly.

2)  Do you believe James Tague was injured by the first shot?

I don't know. Could be the missed shot or a fragment from the head shot. Rague himself initially said second or third, but favors the second.

3)  If not, then which shot was he injured by?

Thanks,
--  MWT   

No opinion.