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Author Topic: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?  (Read 3302 times)

Offline Jorn Frending

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The Katzenbach Memo on Monday morning after the assassination made sure that Oswald was regarded as a lone nut and the only suspect.

Thus, any more investigation was unnecessary and cut by the roots.

Life in Irving before the assassination:

Before the assassination Oswald would be an ex marine, former member of the civil air patrol, and befriended with the rightwing De Mohrenschildt, a Dallas Petroleum Club member.

However, at the same time he would be a Fair Play for Cuba activist associating with Pro Castro Cubans and publicly advocate for a "Hands of Cuba policy".

Ruth Paine apparently had monitored help organisations in Nicaragua helping the Sandinistas who in 1961 formed the FLNS in their fight against dictatorship.

Michael Paine had a file cabinet with information about Pro Castro Cubans ...

(Wait a minute, could Oswald be furnishing Michael Paine with such information?)

Oswald, being a nobody, would get huge media attention for handing out only a few leaflets. Heavy TV cameras would show him handing out those leaflets and interview him later in the studios where he eloquently would answer questions about international politics.

(Now would you consider the following to be a matter of coincidence?)

Hoover made a memo about Oswald's name being used in intelligence operations while Oswald was still in Japan. The CIA had a 201 file on him.

The Sandinistas claimed to be Marxist Leninist and were supported by the USSR. Nicaragua was subject to counter espionage from both the US and the USSR.

Castro claimed to be a Marxist Leninist. And guess what, Oswald claimed to be a Marxist Leninist.(to get more credibility as a "Pro Cuban"?)

(Rather than being a coincidence you may wonder if Oswald formed part of a small scale counter intelligence operation, a kind of a 9 to 5 spy job)

If so, it could certainly be necessary to cover this up. Imagine that Oswald had become a triple agent for the USSR/Cuba. A WWIII could wait around the corner.

(Disclaimer: Citing from memory only, elaborating on a working theory)
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 03:44:52 AM by Jorn Frending »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2019, 05:09:35 AM »
Removing your Sandinista (sourced from Carol Hewett as retold by DiEugenio or perhaps Bill Kelly?  ) suspicions,
This is what remains. (quoted below):

(IOW, don't try to be this guy.:
Quote
'A Constant Game of Musical Chairs' Amid Another Homeland Security ...
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/25/us/politics/mark-morgan-ice-cbp.html
4 hours ago - In one appearance on Fox News, Mr. Morgan said that when he looked into the eyes of detained migrant children, he saw a “soon-to-be MS-13 ...
Trump's ICE pick said he could predict future MS-13 gang members ...
https://www.businessinsider.com/mark-morgan-ice-nominee-ms-13-migrant-children-...

May 17, 2019 - Mark Morgan, President Donald Trump's pick to lead Immigration and ... migrant children will join the gang MS-13 by looking into their eyes.
Trump's ICE Nominee Thinks He Has a Sixth Sense for Future MS-13 ...
https://www.vanityfair.com/.../trumps-ice-nominee-mark-morgan-thinks-he-has-sixth-...

May 17, 2019 - “I’ve looked at them and I’ve said, ‘That is a soon-to-be MS-13 gang member,’” Mark Morgan told Fox’s Tucker Carlson. Donald Trump has never bothered to distinguish between migrant children and their parents when it comes to his anti-immigrant fear-mongering.
)

The Katzenbach Memo on Monday morning after the assassination made sure that Oswald was regarded as a lone nut and the only suspect.

Thus, any more investigation was unnecessary and cut by the roots.

Life in Irving before the assassination:

Before the assassination Oswald would be an ex marine, former member of the civil air patrol, and befriended with the rightwing De Mohrenschildt, a Dallas Petroleum Club member.

However, at the same time he would be a Fair Play for Cuba activist associating with Pro Castro Cubans and publicly advocate for a "Hands of Cuba policy".

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...

Michael Paine had a file cabinet with information about Pro Castro Cubans ...

(Wait a minute, could Oswald be furnishing Michael Paine with such information?)

Oswald, being a nobody, would get huge media attention for handing out only a few leaflets. Heavy TV cameras would show him handing out those leaflets and interview him later in the studios where he eloquently would answer questions about international politics.

(Now would you consider the following to be a matter of coincidence?)

Hoover made a memo about Oswald's name being used in intelligence operations while Oswald was still in Japan. The CIA had a 201 file on him.

…………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

Castro claimed to be a Marxist Leninist. And guess what, Oswald claimed to be a Marxist Leninist.(to get more credibility as a "Pro Cuban"?)

(Rather than being a coincidence you may wonder if Oswald formed part of a small scale counter intelligence operation, a kind of a 9 to 5 spy job)

If so, it could certainly be necessary to cover this up. Imagine that Oswald had become a triple agent for the USSR/Cuba. A WWIII could wait around the corner.

(Disclaimer: Citing from memory only, elaborating on a working theory)

Iacoletti is not the only, looking for the truth, let the chips fall where they may, poster on this forum. Some of us do not accept the CT info stream
at face value, anymore than we would a book authored by Posner.

I shared the following details with Jim DiEugenio on November 15, 2015. It appears since then DiEugenio preferred to keep you from awareness of these facts.
Could it be because these facts are less prejudicial to Ruth Paine's rep?

Quote
http://www.jfkpage.com/Paine/Occurrence_in_Nicaragua.pdf
Occurrence in Nicaragua - February/March 1991
The purpose of this paper is to document events which occurred in Managua, Nicaragua during February and March of 1991 involving Ruth Paine, U.S. coordinator of Pro-Nica, a project of the Southeastern Yearly Meeting of Friends (SEYM) based in St. Petersburg, Florida.
…...
During the next two or three weeks, Ruth, Jon and another person were at most gatherings of the U.S. solidarity community including regular meetings at the Benjamin Linder House, evening worship sessions held at the Moravian Church around the fast on the Iraq War, and a meeting of U.S. health workers held at the Linder House. 

(Link to Jon's obit: https://www.stanforddaily.com/2012/10/25/jonathan-roise-former-editor-in-chief-passes-away-at-67/
….
In 1990, Roise moved to Managua, the capital of Nicaragua, to work as the director of the Quaker Center. He co-founded Sí a la Vida, an organization that aimed to provide street children with mentorship and structured lifestyles to transition them to autonomous adulthood. The organization went on to open two centers in Nicaragua...)

The third person, a young red headed man named Sean Miller, took many pictures, using a special lens, and taped presentations, including one by Benjamin Linders’ parents who visited the Casa during this period.  Ruth said Sean was a student at Antioch College (located in Ohio) who was staying at El Centro de los Amigos and taking pictures for the Nicaragua Network.  Sean told some people he lived in Washington, D.C.

Quote
Ruth Paine was later found in Nicaragua helping the CIA's ... www.jfkpage.com/Paine/Occurrence_in_Nicaragua.pdf of his head, and the other struck him in the back, exited through his throat and .... The third person, a young red headed man named. Sean Miller, took many pictures, using a special lens, and taped presentations ... student at Antioch College (located in Ohio) who was staying at. El Centro de .... through for us.” Sue Wheaton.

Shawn Miller https://www.linkedin.com/pub/shawn-miller/9/9b/56b Instructional Systems Designer/ Courseware Lead/ Program Manager at Defense Acquisition University Washington D.C. Metro Area  ............ Antioch College B.A., Communications and International Studies 1988 – 1993 Activities and Societies: Graduated with distinction and Commencement Speaker for graduation class Antioch Record (Official College Newspaper) Editor-in-Chief Served as Assistant Community Manager Community Darkroom Manager Freelance photographer for Associated Press
Quote
https://www.linkedin.com/in/shawn-miller-56b09b9
Shawn Miller
Program Manager of Development & Production For e-Learning, Mobile & Simulations at Defense Acquisition University
Fort Belvoir, Virginia....
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 05:39:48 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2019, 04:51:32 PM »
Careful, Jorn.  You're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist!

Offline Jorn Frending

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2019, 10:23:28 PM »
Careful, Jorn.  You're starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist!


You are correct  :)

This is "no man's land" ...

It does not comply with the LN lone nut highschool drop out point of view ...

Nor does it comply with the CT oblivious innocent Oswald point of view ...

However, it explains Oswald on one side being an order filler and on the other side being an eloquent knowledgeable speaker on public television.

It explains Michael Paine possessing a filecabinet with intelligence contents.

It explains intelligence monitoring on Oswald.

It  explains why the "one member Oswald  committee" of Fair Play for Cuba could get heavy television cameras on the street and Oswald interviewed on television.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 10:25:08 PM by Jorn Frending »

Offline Denis Pointing

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2019, 12:37:50 AM »

You are correct  :)

This is "no man's land" ...

It does not comply with the LN lone nut highschool drop out point of view ...

Nor does it comply with the CT oblivious innocent Oswald point of view ...

However, it explains Oswald on one side being an order filler and on the other side being an eloquent knowledgeable speaker on public television.

It explains Michael Paine possessing a filecabinet with intelligence contents.

It explains intelligence monitoring on Oswald.

It  explains why the "one member Oswald  committee" of Fair Play for Cuba could get heavy television cameras on the street and Oswald interviewed on television.

Hi Jorn, I believe it's been accepted by most for years that Oswald tipped off the news guys in advance, they didn't just appear by accident..in that sense, the 'incident' was indeed a set up but a set up by Oswald. As for the filing cabinets, IIRC, the list of pro-Castro Cubans was shown to have belonged to Oswald.

PS I didn't remember correctly, after double checking it seems the list of Cuban names was just a myth. The contents of those cabinets have in fact never been revealed.

Mr. LIEBELER. What was in these file cabinets?

Mr. WALTHERS. We didn't go through them at the scene. I do remember a letterhead--I can't describe it--I know we opened one of them and we seen what it was, that it was a lot of personal letters and stuff and a letterhead that this Paine fellow had told us about, and he said, "That's from the people he writes to in Russia"; he was talking about this letterhead we had pulled out and so I just pushed it all back down and shut it and took the whole works.

Mr. LIEBELER. I have been advised that some story has developed that at some point that when you went out there you found seven file cabinets full of cards that had the names on them of pro-Castro sympathizers or something of that kind, but you don't remember seeing any of them?

Mr. WALTHERS. Well, that could have been one, but I didn't see it.

Mr. LIEBELER. There certainly weren't any seven file cabinets with the stuff you got out there or anything like that?

Mr. WALTHERS. I picked up all of these file cabinets and what all of them contained, I don't know myself to this day.

Mr. LIEBELER. As I was sitting here listening to your story, I could see where that story might have come from--you mentioned the "Fair Play for Cuba" leaflets that were in a barrel.

Mr. WALTHERS. That's right--we got a stack of them out of that barrel, but things get all twisted around.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 01:36:24 AM by Denis Pointing »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2019, 12:52:09 AM »
Hi Jorn, ......
..... As for the filing cabinets, IIRC, the list of pro-Castro Cubans was shown to have belonged to Oswald.


Custer: The Legend of the Martyred Hero
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 01:02:35 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2019, 01:35:31 AM »

Custer: The Legend of the Martyred Hero


Actually they did not achieve anything. Gen Custer was basically a clown and led his men to needless death. The whole battle never lasted 20 minutes, and a lot of the men were killed running in small groups.

Offline Anthony Frank

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2019, 02:57:50 AM »
Oswald was not the assassin. He was useful in giving LBJ and the WC a reason to think they needed a cover up.

To quote from my book: Retired Chief Justice Earl Warren admitted that President Johnson finally established the Warren Commission seven days after the assassination because Johnson came to have a profound fear that Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and Cuban Premier Fidel Castro were behind the assassination. President Johnson feared that their involvement could get the United States into, in Earl Warren’s words, “a nuclear war.”

Warren was interviewed in December 1972 and stated that when he went to the White House on November 29, 1963, President Johnson “told me he felt conditions around the world were so bad at the moment that he thought it might even get us into a war; a nuclear war.”

Two hours before meeting with President Johnson, Earl Warren told Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy that he “did not believe a Chief Justice should undertake non-judicial duties while sitting on the Supreme Court.”

The former Chief Justice also related that President Johnson had “asked for a report from Defense Secretary Robert S. McNamara for an estimate on how many Americans would be killed in a Soviet nuclear attack.” Johnson was given a figure of 40 million, and the fear of a possible nuclear war caused Warren to “agree to head the inquiry.” The simple fact is that no matter what the Warren Commission found out, they would abide by their instructions to tell the American public that there was no conspiracy to assassinate President Kennedy.

When President Johnson called Senator Richard Russell on November 29 to enlist him for the Warren Commission, he told Russell about Chief Justice Warren refusing Bobby Kennedy’s request to serve on a Presidential Commission, stating, “Bobby and them went up to see him today and he turned them down cold and said, ‘No’ . . . . Two hours later I called him and ordered him down here, and he didn’t want to come. I insisted he come.”

Johnson told Senator Russell that Chief Justice Warren “came down here and told me no twice,” and President Johnson pointedly told Russell, “We’ve got to take this out of the arena where they’re testifying that Khrushchev and Castro did this and did that and chuck us into a war that can kill 40 million Americans in an hour.”

Warren met with the Commission staff on January 20, 1964, and a staff memorandum from the meeting states that Warren “discussed the circumstances under which he had accepted the chairmanship of the Commission.” Warren told the staff that “rumors” that were “circulating in this country and overseas” had to be “quenched,” or the rumors “could conceivably lead the country into a war which could cost 40 million lives. No one could refuse to do something which might help to prevent such a possibility.”

The CIA initially supplied President Johnson and the Warren Commission with information that implicated Castro in the assassination, and they later supplied the Warren Commission with information implicating anti-Castro Cubans in the assassination. The anti-Castro Cubans’ alleged motive was to blame Castro for the assassination and thus provoke a U.S. invasion of Cuba.

But if anti-Castro Cubans had actually assassinated President Kennedy, it would mean Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev and Cuban Premier Fidel Castro instantaneously knew that the assassination was a rightwing conspiracy. As noted in Chapter 9, “twelve minutes” after it was officially announced on November 22 that “President Kennedy was dead,” Moscow radio carried “the first TASS bulletin on his death” stating he “had fallen victim to rightwing extremists,” and Castro stated with absolute certainty that “those demanding a stronger policy against Cuba” were behind the assassination.

In fact, Chapter 9 contains voluminous reports from the CIA and the United States Information Agency stating that nations all around the world thought Kennedy was killed as a result of a right-wing conspiracy. The Soviets and their allies went so far as to repeatedly accuse Barry Goldwater and his supporters of being behind the assassination. There was no one “testifying that Khrushchev and Castro did this and did that,” and the only rumors “circulating in this country and overseas” were rumors that President Kennedy was killed as a result of a right-wing conspiracy.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2019, 03:47:18 AM »

You are correct  :)

This is "no man's land" ...

It does not comply with the LN lone nut highschool drop out point of view ...

Nor does it comply with the CT oblivious innocent Oswald point of view ...

However, it explains Oswald on one side being an order filler and on the other side being an eloquent knowledgeable speaker on public television.

It explains Michael Paine possessing a filecabinet with intelligence contents.

It explains intelligence monitoring on Oswald.

It  explains why the "one member Oswald  committee" of Fair Play for Cuba could get heavy television cameras on the street and Oswald interviewed on television.

CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald was a committee of three, actually:
1) Alex/Alec/Alek Hidell (rhymes with Fidel) was in charge of armament procurement.
2) O.H. Lee was in charge of safe house procurement... and the butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey was in charge of curtain-rod procurement... along with becoming a somebody.

Oswald's Marxist schtict was closer to Groucho than Karl by the way. IIRC, Michael Paine and/or George deM stated that Oswald was talking as if by rote, and would get angry and leave the room if challenged.

Swedish makes it sound even funnier:

CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald var en kommitté med tre, faktiskt:
1) Alex / Alec / Alek Hidell (rimmar med Fidel) var ansvarig för bevarandeupphandling.
2) O.H. Lee var ansvarig för säkra husupphandlingar ... och butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey var ansvarig för gardinstångsupphandling ... tillsammans med att bli någon.

Oswalds marxistiska schtikt var närmare Groucho än Karl förresten. IIRC, Michael Paine och / eller George deM uppgav att Oswald pratade som om han var rote och skulle bli arg och lämna rummet om han utmanades.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 04:03:07 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?
« Reply #9 on: June 27, 2019, 05:48:43 AM »
CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald was a committee of three, actually:
1) Alex/Alec/Alek Hidell (rhymes with Fidel) was in charge of armament procurement.
2) O.H. Lee was in charge of safe house procurement... and the butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey was in charge of curtain-rod procurement... along with becoming a somebody.

Oswald's Marxist schtict was closer to Groucho than Karl by the way. IIRC, Michael Paine and/or George deM stated that Oswald was talking as if by rote, and would get angry and leave the room if challenged.

Swedish makes it sound even funnier:

CT mancrush Lee Harvey Oswald var en kommitté med tre, faktiskt:
1) Alex / Alec / Alek Hidell (rimmar med Fidel) var ansvarig för bevarandeupphandling.
2) O.H. Lee var ansvarig för säkra husupphandlingar ... och butt-twister waltz.
3) Dirty Harvey var ansvarig för gardinstångsupphandling ... tillsammans med att bli någon.

Oswalds marxistiska schtikt var närmare Groucho än Karl förresten. IIRC, Michael Paine och / eller George deM uppgav att Oswald pratade som om han var rote och skulle bli arg och lämna rummet om han utmanades.

Quote
Marina & Lee by Priscilla Johnson Macmillan
........


Swedish, huh?

Quote
A Special Force: Origin And Development Of The Jedburgh Project In Support ...
By Major Wyman W. Irwin

Quote
https://www.nytimes.com/1987/07/06/obituaries/ellery-huntington-jr.html
Ellery C Huntington, Jr  July 6, 1987

....Mr. Huntington, a native of Nashville, headed a detachment of Army liaison officers posted to Marshal Tito's partisans in the mountains of Yugoslavia. His mission was to keep the United States informed about the guerrilla fight against the German and Italian occupation troops and arrange for parachute drops of supplies and nightly air evacuation of the wounded.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blatnik
John Anton Blatnik (August 17, 1911 – December 17, 1991)
....From 1940 to 1944, he served in the Minnesota State Senate and volunteered to serve in the United States Army Air Corps in 1942. While in the Army Air Corps (the predecessor to the Air Force), he was chief of the Office of Strategic Services's mission with Tito's Yugoslav partisans for almost a year.[2]

https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP88-01315R000400280018-2.pdf


In 1946, Blatnik was elected to Congress representing Minnesota's 8th District in the northeastern part of the state, running on the newly unified ticket of the Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party. He was reelected 13 times without much difficulty. He served in the 80th, 81st, 82nd, 83rd, 84th, 85th, 86th, 87th, 88th, 89th, 90th, 91st, 92nd, and 93rd congresses, (January 3, 1947 – December 31, 1974).

Mr. Huntington was a director and officer of the Equity Corporation of New York from 1932 to 1941. He returned in 1945 as president and then chairman of that investment concern and its subsidiaries, retiring in 1958.

He is survived by his wife, Catherine DuBois Huntington; two daughters, Hester Huntington McClintock of Madison, Conn., and Susan Huntington Hanmer of Los Angeles, and a son, the Rev. Frederic D. Huntington of Miami.





https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60313&relPageId=49


2-1/2 years later, Clark Cilfford's first cousin JoAnne McAdams
filed a lawsuit against that man, her stepfather Jerome Jerre Hastings Hasty, his friend David Davenport,
and several doctors for involuntarily committing her to the State of New Mexico mental hospital.

Quote
Las Vegas Optic from Las Vegas, New Mexico on July 31, 1967 ? Page 1
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/35602601/
Miss Me Adams, who is not represented by an attorney in the suit relates in the complaint that she had come to Santa Fe to visit her mother, Mrs. Marguerite McAdams Hasty, and her mother's husband, Jerome Hasty, and David Davenport, a friend of Hasty, induced her to consult Dr. Roscnbaum. As a result, she claims, the ...




.......
I do find it curious that the man married to Clifford's aunt Marguerite Bowman McAdams in late
1964 was a close friend of Priscilla's first cousin, David C Davenport, CIA, and performed as driver
and bodyguard of Priscilla and Marina.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60397&relPageId=146 and http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=60313&relPageId=49

20 October, 2001

Without Reservations: From Harlem to the End of the Santa Fe Trail
https://books.google.com/books?isbn=0943734363


2-1/2 years later, Clark Cilfford's first cousin JoAnne McAdams
filed a lawsuit against that man, her stepfather Jerome Jerre Hastings Hasty, his friend David Davenport,
and several doctors for involuntarily committing her to the State of New Mexico mental hospital.

No one reacts to those facts because they do not know what to make of them despite the uncontested
facts that support all of that as true!

Caprio and company must read it in a 40 year old book to embrace it unconditionally.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/author-85-knew-jfk-killer-oswald-article-1.1525293

Marina Oswald (left), widow of Lee Harvey Oswald, with friend Jerre Hastings (center) and Priscilla Johnson McMillan. McMillan befriended Oswald after the assassination of JFK. (JOSH REYNOLDS/JOSH REYNOLDS PHOTO)

1954 Obit:

1940 U.S. Census snippet of a household in New Trier (Winnetka)Illinois:

On April 26, 1940, Jerome A Hastings was a 29 year old man who was born in Wisconsin and was employed as a buyer at a country club. His education level was C2, two years of college. Hastings' annual income was just over $300. In 1935 his residence was in Flemington, NJ.

On May 18, Jerome Hasty was a 29 year old man who was born in Wisconsin and was employed as a officer at a country club. His education level was C1, one year of college. Hasty's annual income was just over $600. In 1935 his residence was in Carmel-by-the-Sea, CAL.

26 years later, Jerome Allen Hasty files a notice of legal change of name from Hasty to Hastings:

« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 06:48:15 AM by Tom Scully »

 

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