CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?

[Jerry Organ]

Doesn't sound like there's a pallet and a huge stack of cartons over the rifle.

CE 515 (marked by Boone)

Who said anything about a huge stack of cartons over the rifle.....

You said the rifle was under the pallet. The pallets in that area are stacked five-feet high with cartons.

There were no cartons over the the rifle except the one or two boxes that served as to roof of the crevasse.  Just LOOK at the photo .....Can't you see that it would be a simple matter to slide the north boxes to the south and form a "cave" beneath the pallet.
And I know you've see the Alyea film that shows Lt Day, Who is on the south side of the rifle,  kneeling down, and reaching out to grab the leather sling ( which is mounted on the left side of the rifle but is up when Day grabs it. ) he then lifts the rifle by the sling.   The rifle was lying on the floor with the bolt handle down and the sling side up.

Unfortunately, the Alyea clip begins at the moment of pick-up; it can't say anything about how the rifle was originally positioned in the crack. Day acknowledged the in-situ photos and therefore he must have prepared the rifle for pickup. If he had not manipulated the rifle in order to safety pick it it up and instead just picked the rifle up by the sight, you would have faulted him for that.

[Walt Cakebread]

I have nothing more. Multiple Forum members have lent support for the DPD Crime Lab in-situ location. No one on the Forum, after pages and years of consideration of what you've presented, supports your alternative location.

That said, evidence validity isn't something determined by popularity.

This is a fake in situ photo ( above)  that the DPD created to support their lie about Lee dashing by the boxes and tossing the rifle aside as he fled.



And this is what the scene looked like at the time ( about 1:45 ) the rifle was removed from beneath the wooden pallet.

Compare the boxes that have the blue arrows pointing to them with the boxes to the left side of the rifle in the fake in situ photo....They should appear to be the same boxes in the same positions in both photos.  ( If they are genuine) One glaring difference....Notice that the box above the butt of the rifle is open in the fake photo, That box was NOT open, and is sealed with tape, in the photo with the blue arrows.....One of the photos is a fake....  Another glaring difference... Notice that the photo with the blue arrows was obviously taken with strong sunlight shining on the boxes and floor.....whereas the official in situ photo appears to have been taken at night.

[Walt Cakebread]

You said the rifle was under the pallet. The pallets in that area are stacked five-feet high with cartons.

Unfortunately, the Alyea clip begins at the moment of pick-up; it can't say anything about how the rifle was originally positioned in the crack. Day acknowledged the in-situ photos and therefore he must have prepared the rifle for pickup. If he had not manipulated the rifle in order to safety pick it it up and instead just picked the rifle up by the sight, you would have faulted him for that.

Yes, the  Alyea clip does begin at the moment that the kneeling Lt Day grabs the sling of the rifle which is lying on the floor. Watch at the 2:52 point to see him grab the sling. 

[Walt Cakebread]

Yawn!

Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO box.
Oswald was photographed with C2766.
Oswald's rifle was missing from the blanket in the Paine garage.
C2766 was found on the 6th floor of Oswald's workplace.
C2766 contained fresh fibers which matched Oswald's shirt fibers.
C2766 had Oswald's palm print.

Btw I will end this here, if you want to discuss the rifle ownership then create your own thread.

JohnM

Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO box.....This is probably true.

Oswald was photographed with C2766.....This is NOT true.   Lee was photographed with a Mannlicher carcano....There is no way to know the serial number...However the rifle in Lee's hand's seems to be a bit different than the TSBD rifle.... The front sling swivel is on the bottom of the rifle in the BY photo   

Oswald's rifle was missing from the blanket in the Paine garage....  True ...there was no rifle in the blanket....But can you prove that the carcano was ever in that blanket?

C2766 was found on the 6th floor of Oswald's workplace.  True, a carcano with the serial # C 2766 was found well hidden beneath a pallet with boxes of books stacked on it. on the sixth floor.   But it is very easy to replace the barrel and stamp the new barrel with any number you desire. 

C2766 contained fresh fibers which matched Oswald's shirt fibers....   A ha!!....   The FBI claimed the fibers matched the shirt that Lee was wearing at the time of his arrest at the theater. ( and I don't doubt that this is true)....However that arrest shirt is NOT the shirt that Lee was wearing at the TSBD at the time of the shooting.

C2766 had Oswald's palm print..... This definitely a lie.  But I'm not going to go into the reason I know for a fact that it is a lie.   Because laying out the evidence is futile because it is  apparently too difficult for most folks to comprehend.

[Zeon Mason]

If Weizmann was on the south side of stacked up boxes on the pallet and trying to look north underneath of them then he only had a 1/4 inch gap to see thru due to the 2x4s that run east/west

Then in addition to that is the wall of boxes that form the south side wall that completely hide the rifle and were stacked originally side by side with probably no more than a 1/8th inch gap along the east west direction

Therefore,IMO, Weitzman is “embellishing” this supposed sighting of the rifle UNLESS the rifle originally really was basically resting in the 4” gap available between upper and lower 1x4s and the rifle being parallel with the 2x4s structural frame

Since for some reason no photograph was taken of the ORIGINAL configuration of the 2 parallel rows of boxes BEFORE moving some of them out of the way to photo part of the rifle

Then all that can be proposed is that the gap was probably the same as what gap can be seen in the rest of the unmoved portion of walls

Which gap appears (as Walt already pointed out )is NOT 4” wide which is about what would be needed for width of the wooden stock plus off set scope plus bolt handle

IF that gap was only about 1” as it appears in the other section of unmoved boxes forming the 2 walls Then there should have been some scoring/dents etc on inner vertical sides of the boxes due to force of friction reaction to rifle stock and protruding elements of offset scope and the bolt handle

[Walt Cakebread]

If Weizmann was on the south side of stacked up boxes on the pallet and trying to look north underneath of them then he only had a 1/4 inch gap to see thru due to the 2x4s that run east/west

Then in addition to that is the wall of boxes that form the south side wall that completely hide the rifle and were stacked originally side by side with probably no more than a 1/8th inch gap along the east west direction

Therefore,IMO, Weitzman is “embellishing” this supposed sighting of the rifle UNLESS the rifle originally really was basically resting in the 4” gap available between upper and lower 1x4s and the rifle being parallel with the 2x4s structural frame

Since for some reason no photograph was taken of the ORIGINAL configuration of the 2 parallel rows of boxes BEFORE moving some of them out of the way to photo part of the rifle

Then all that can be proposed is that the gap was probably the same as what gap can be seen in the rest of the unmoved portion of walls

Which gap appears (as Walt already pointed out )is NOT 4” wide which is about what would be needed for width of the wooden stock plus off set scope plus bolt handle

IF that gap was only about 1” as it appears in the other section of unmoved boxes forming the 2 walls Then there should have been some scoring/dents etc on inner vertical sides of the boxes due to force of friction reaction to rifle stock and protruding elements of offset scope and the bolt handle

"If Weizmann was on the south side of stacked up boxes on the pallet and trying to look north underneath of them"

Zeon.... I've been posting information for you for several days, and you haven't even learned that Seymour Weitzman was moving from EAST to West as he approached the rifle that was lying on it's right side beneath the northern edge of the wooden pallet.  He was NOT  trying to look north underneath the pallet.

Perhaps you should review the thread.....  This isn't difficult.... Although the photos do tend to confuse those who aren't familiar with the area at the top of the stairs.

If anybody in the forum is confused or doesn't understand the crux of this information, please ask questions.   

[Jerry Organ]

"If Weizmann was on the south side of stacked up boxes on the pallet and trying to look north underneath of them"

Zeon.... I've been posting information for you for several days, and you haven't even learned that Seymour Weitzman was moving from EAST to West as he approached the rifle that was lying on it's right side beneath the northern edge of the wooden pallet. 

Weitzman did move from the east side of the building to the west side to search, but he has never described walking westward between the pallets and the northmost row of boxes.



You said the rifle was under the pallet; now it's beneath the northern edge. It keeps creeping northward. The "northern edge" of the pallet in question (lower-right in photo above) is solid wood.

He was NOT  trying to look north underneath the pallet.

   Mr. BALL - I have three pictures here which I have marked, respectively, D, E, F. I show
           you D first. Does that look anything like the location where you found the gun?
   Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir; this is taken the opposite side the flat I was looking under.

Perhaps you should review the thread.....  This isn't difficult.... Although the photos do tend to confuse those who aren't familiar with the area at the top of the stairs.

If anybody in the forum is confused or doesn't understand the crux of this information, please ask questions.   

The only confusion is from your interpretations.

[Jerry Organ]

This is a fake in situ photo ( above)  that the DPD created to support their lie about Lee dashing by the boxes and tossing the rifle aside as he fled.

   Mr. STUDEBAKER. No, we took two from the same location when we was up on
          top of the stack of boxes shooting down at it, before they picked it up.

And this is what the scene looked like at the time ( about 1:45 ) the rifle was removed from beneath the wooden pallet.

Compare the boxes that have the blue arrows pointing to them with the boxes to the left side of the rifle in the fake in situ photo....They should appear to be the same boxes in the same positions in both photos.  ( If they are genuine) One glaring difference....Notice that the box above the butt of the rifle is open in the fake photo, That box was NOT open, and is sealed with tape, in the photo with the blue arrows.....One of the photos is a fake....  Another glaring difference... Notice that the photo with the blue arrows was obviously taken with strong sunlight shining on the boxes and floor.....whereas the official in situ photo appears to have been taken at night.

The box you're referring to is sealed in both the photo you referred to ("blue arrows") and the Crime Lab's in-situ photo. It's a box stacked three-high.