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Author Topic: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?  (Read 31853 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #620 on: February 15, 2020, 09:22:29 PM »
Ok Walt, you got a point there depending what kind of wooden palette

I was envisioning a palette thatís got about 4Ē space made from 2x4 s thru witch a rifle could be placed regardless how many boxes stacked on the upper platform

Do you have a photo of what type wooden palette was there on the 6th floor TBDS?

if itís just  1x4 overlapping board type then. Iím in agreement that it would be difficult to quickly wedge rifle all the way underneath and probably would require removing boxes to lighten the load to do so

Ok Walt, you got a point there

Thank you, Z....    But I hope you aren't simply taking my word....Have you seen Detective Studebaker's map of the sixth floor?    Studebaker measured the distance from the North Wall to the rifle on the floor, and recorded that distance as 15 feet 4 inches.   Since the aisle at the top of the stairs, that Lee would have had to pass through was approximately 10 feet from the north wall, he would have had to have reached across five feet and down four feet to place the eight pound rifle beneath the stack of boxes of books.    DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE???
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 09:29:55 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #621 on: February 15, 2020, 10:12:46 PM »
Ok Walt, you got a point there

Thank you, Z....    But I hope you aren't simply taking my word....Have you see Detective Studebaker's map of the sixth floor?    Studebaker measured the distance from the North Wall to the rifle on the floor, and recorded that distance as 15 feet 4 inches.   Since the aisle at the top of the stairs, that Lee would have had to pass through was approximately 10 feet from the north wall, he would have had to have reached across five feet and down four feet to place the eight pound rifle beneath the stack of boxes of books.    DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE???



Map showing steps started about 10' 6" from North wall. First row of boxes begin about 14' 3" from steps.



Note first row of boxes southward from steps. South is towards viewer.
Boxes in foreground at greater height were on a wood pallet.
 


Rifle located immediately south of first row of boxes southward from steps.
Simple matter to reach over that row of boxes to place rifle on floor.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #622 on: February 15, 2020, 10:46:41 PM »


Map showing steps started about 10' 6" from North wall. First row of boxes begin about 14' 3" from steps.



Note first row of boxes southward from steps. South is towards viewer.
Boxes in foreground at greater height were on a wood pallet.
 


Rifle located immediately south of first row of boxes southward from steps.
Simple matter to reach over that row of boxes to place rifle on floor.

Looking at the map in GIMP, the center of the aisle that Lee would have had to pass through was about four feet from where the rifle was found. If Oswald was reaching when he placed the rifle, the distance would have been less than that. It don't know what Walt means by "down four feet".
« Last Edit: February 15, 2020, 10:47:34 PM by Tim Nickerson »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #623 on: February 15, 2020, 11:42:42 PM »


Map showing steps started about 10' 6" from North wall. First row of boxes begin about 14' 3" from steps.



Note first row of boxes southward from steps. South is towards viewer.
Boxes in foreground at greater height were on a wood pallet.
 


Rifle located immediately south of first row of boxes southward from steps.
Simple matter to reach over that row of boxes to place rifle on floor.

Notice that Studebaker measured the wooden support beam at 9 1/2 inches......And the south side of the beam at the NW corner was 13 feet from the north wall.and north side of the row of boxes was 13 feet from the north wall.    So if a person were to reach across to place the rifle on the floor at 15' 4" he would be reaching across over two feet of space.  ( a 5' 9" man has an arm length of 22 inches.)  But not only would the man need to reach across over two feet he would need to put the eight pound rifle down about three feet ....  Is there anybody who believes that this feat is possible??   

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #624 on: February 15, 2020, 11:57:15 PM »
Looking at the map in GIMP, the center of the aisle that Lee would have had to pass through was about four feet from where the rifle was found. If Oswald was reaching when he placed the rifle, the distance would have been less than that. It don't know what Walt means by "down four feet".

Walt just went from "down four feet" to "over two feet". Some of this is stuff in his mind that he can picture but can't effectively communicate.



This policeman shows how someone could lean over the row of low-height boxes and place the rifle. Might have put an elbow on top of a box so as to reach the floor.



Looking from West to East. Row nearest to stairway at camera-left.
Rifle removed. Tall stacks of pallleted book cartons at camera-right.
 


Looking from North to South. Rifle had to be lifted over row of boxes in foreground to be lowered
to floor. The boxes there (three at camera-left foreground) were only stacked two-high.

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #625 on: February 16, 2020, 12:23:54 AM »
Walt just went from "down four feet" to "over two feet". Some of this is stuff in his mind that he can picture but can't effectively communicate.



This policeman shows how someone could lean over the row of low-height boxes and place the rifle. Might have put an elbow on top of a box so as to reach the floor.



Looking from West to East. Row nearest to stairway at camera-left.
Rifle removed. Tall stacks of pallleted book cartons at camera-right.
 


Looking from North to South. Rifle had to be lifted over row of boxes in foreground to be lowered
to floor. The boxes there (three at camera-left foreground) were only stacked two-high.

I'm sure that I've seen those two bottom photos before but I never realized that they were of the location of where the rifle was found. Looking at the one on the left, it's plain to see how foolish Walt's claim is. Of course , it's possible that he's been a frail weakling himself all of his life and can't imagine how a 24 year old guy could have managed to handle an 8 lb rifle the way that Oswald did.

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #626 on: February 16, 2020, 01:08:11 AM »
I'm sure that I've seen those two bottom photos before but I never realized that they were of the location of where the rifle was found. Looking at the one on the left, it's plain to see how foolish Walt's claim is. Of course , it's possible that he's been a frail weakling himself all of his life and can't imagine how a 24 year old guy could have managed to handle an 8 lb rifle the way that Oswald did.

You mean the way he disassembled then reassembled the rifle then took 3 hurried shots and managed 2 hits, including a head shot using a wonky scope, then ditched it neatly between some boxes without getting a single print on the rifle? Maybe you should address how Oswald managed that first. Was he a ghost?

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #627 on: February 16, 2020, 02:27:14 AM »
The revolver was not ordered two months before the rifle was.  Jan 27, 1963 was the date that Oswald filled out the coupon, not the date that he mailed it.

How do you know what date it was mailed?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 02:30:57 AM by John Iacoletti »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #628 on: February 16, 2020, 02:39:26 AM »
How do you know what date it was mailed?

That's a fair question. I don't actually know the date it was mailed. How does Jerry Freeman know what date it was mailed? Have you asked him?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #629 on: February 16, 2020, 02:48:13 AM »
Walt just went from "down four feet" to "over two feet". Some of this is stuff in his mind that he can picture but can't effectively communicate.



This policeman shows how someone could lean over the row of low-height boxes and place the rifle. Might have put an elbow on top of a box so as to reach the floor.



Looking from West to East. Row nearest to stairway at camera-left.
Rifle removed. Tall stacks of pallleted book cartons at camera-right.
 


Looking from North to South. Rifle had to be lifted over row of boxes in foreground to be lowered
to floor. The boxes there (three at camera-left foreground) were only stacked two-high.



Looking from West to East. Row nearest to stairway at camera-left.
Rifle removed. Tall stacks of pallleted book cartons at camera-right.

The aisle that Lee Oswald allegedly dashed through can be seen at camera left....And the rifle was found on the floor beneath the pallet that is visible at camera right.  Reviiew Seymour Weitzman's affidavit and testimony about shining his flash light beneath that pallet ( which was buried beneath boxes of books at the time that he and Boone discovered the rifle lying on the floor) 

Now how the hell could the skinny 5' 9" Lee Oswald reach across the boxes from the aisle and place the 8 pound rifle down beneath the pallet with the boxes of books stacked in it and then covered the top of the crevasse between the boxes by staking boxes on top of the boxes.   

I'm sure that I've seen those two bottom photos before but I never realized that they were of the location of where the rifle was found. Looking at the one on the left, it's plain to see how foolish Walt's claim is. Of course , it's possible that he's been a frail weakling himself all of his life and can't imagine how a 24 year old guy could have managed to handle an 8 lb rifle the way that Oswald did.

 

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