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Author Topic: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?  (Read 130896 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #448 on: September 12, 2019, 12:17:17 AM »
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"27 inch was based on a guess"

Frazier was corroborated by his sister. They both came up with 27 inches.

Frazier naver paid attention and his sister saw the bag for a few seconds and they both came to the EXACT same answer, geez what are the chances?

JohnM

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #448 on: September 12, 2019, 12:17:17 AM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #449 on: September 12, 2019, 12:31:02 AM »
Frazier naver paid attention and his sister saw the bag for a few seconds and they both came to the EXACT same answer, geez what are the chances?



So who's the liar?

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #450 on: September 12, 2019, 01:54:13 AM »
Mr. BELIN. Did you find anything else up in the southeast corner of the sixth floor? We have talked about the rifle, we have talked about the shells, we have talked about the chicken bones and the lunch sack and the pop bottle by that second pair of windows. Anything else?
Mr. JOHNSON. Yes, sir. We found this brown paper sack or case. It was made out of heavy wrapping paper. Actually, it looked similar to the paper that those books was wrapped in. It was just a long narrow paper bag.
Mr. BELIN. Where was this found?
Mr. JOHNSON. Right in the corner of the building.
Mr. BELIN. On what floor?
Mr. JOHNSON. Sixth floor.
Mr. BELIN. Which corner?
Mr. JOHNSON. Southeast corner.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know who found it?
Mr. JOHNSON. I know that the first I saw of it, L. D. Montgomery, my partner, picked it up off the floor, and it was folded up, and he unfolded it.
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Mr. BALL. Where was the paper sack?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Let's see--the paper sack--I don't recall for sure if it was on the floor or on the box, but I know it was just there----one of those pictures might show exactly where it was.
Mr. BALL. I don't have a picture of the paper sack.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. You don't? Well, it was there--I can't recall for sure if it was on one of the boxes or on the floor there.
Mr. BALL. It was over in what corner?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. It would be the southeast corner of the building there where the shooting was.
Mr. BALL. Did you turn the sack over to anybody or did you pick it up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes---let's see Lieutenant Day and Detective Studebaker came up and took pictures and everything, and then we took a Dr. Pepper bottle and that sack that we found that looked like the rifle was wrapped up in.
................
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Right over here is where we found that long piece of paper that looked like a sack, that the rifle had been in.
Mr. BALL. Does that have a number--that area--where you found that long piece of paper?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. It's No. 2 right here.
Mr. BALL. You found the sack in the area marked 2 on Exhibit J to the Studebaker deposition. Did you pick the sack up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Which sack are we talking about now?
Mr. BALL. The paper sack?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. The small one or the larger one?
Mr. BALL. The larger one you mentioned that was in position 2.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You picked it up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Wait just a minute no; I didn't pick it up. I believe Mr. Studebaker did. We left it laying right there so they could check it for prints.
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Mr. BALL. Now, did you at any time see any paper sack around there?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes sir.
Mr. BALL. Where?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Storage room there - in, the southeast corner of the building folded.
Mr. BALL. In the southeast corner of the building?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was a paper - I don't know what it was.
Mr. BALL. And it was folded, you say?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where was it with respect to the three boxes of which the top two were Rolling Readers?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Directly east.
Mr. BALL. There is a corner there, isn't it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir; in the southeast corner.
Mr. BALL. It was in the southeast corner?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I drew that box in for somebody over at the FBI that said you wanted it. It is in one of those pictures - one of the shots after the duplicate shot.
Mr. BALL. Let's mark this picture "Exhibit F."
(Instrument marked by the reporter as "Studebaker Exhibit F," for identification.)
Mr. BALL. Do you know who took that picture?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No; I don't.
Mr. BALL. Do you recognize the diagram?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you draw the diagram?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I drew a diagram in there for the FBI, somebody from the FBI called me down - I can't think of his name, and he wanted an approximate location of where the paper was found.
Mr. BALL. Does that show the approximate location?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where you have the dotted lines?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
....
Mr. BALL. Now, how big was this paper.that you saw - you saw the wrapper - tell me about how big that paper bag was - how long was it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was about, I would say, 3 1/2 to 4 feet long.
Mr. BALL. The paper bag?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And how wide was it? Approximately 8 inches.
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Mr. BELIN. Did you see anything else in the southeast corner?
Mr. BREWER. There was a paper, relatively long paper sack there.
Mr. BELIN. Where was that?
Mr. BREWER. It was there In the southeast corner.
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Mr. BELIN. What other kind of a sack was found?
Mr. DAY. A homemade sack, brown paper with 3-inch tape found right in the corner, the southeast corner of the building near where the slugs were found.
Mr. McCLOY. Near where the hulls were found?
Mr. DAY. Near where the hulls. What did I say?
Mr. McCLOY. Slugs.
Mr. DAY. Hulls.
......
Mr. BELIN. Where was the sack found with relation to the pipes and that box?
Mr. DAY. Between the sack and the south wall, which would be the wall at the top of the picture as shown here.
Mr. BELIN. You mean between--you said the sack.
Mr. DAY. I mean the pipe. The sack was between the pipe and the wall at the top of the picture.
Mr. BELIN. That wall at the top of the picture would be the east wall, would it not?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; laying parallel to the south wall.
Mr. BELIN. Did the sack--was it folded over in any way or just lying flat, if you remember?
Mr. DAY. It was folded over with the fold next to the pipe, to the best of my knowledge.
Mr. BELIN. I will now hand you what has been marked as Commission Exhibit 626 and ask you to state if you know what this is, and also appears to be marked as Commission Exhibit 142.
Mr. DAY. This is the sack found on the sixth floor in the southeast corner of the building on November 22, 1963.
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Mr. BALL. Did you ever see a paper bag?
Mr. SIMS. Well, we saw some wrappings--a brown wrapping there.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see it?
Mr. SIMS. It was there by the hulls.
Mr. BALL. Was it right there near the hulls?
Mr. SIMS. As well as I remember--of course, I didn't pay too much attention at that time, but it was, I believe, by the east side of where the boxes were piled up---that would be a guess--I believe that's where it was.


JohnM

When the Sheriff Department Officers found the alleged sniper's nest they were told by superiors to cordon the area off, not touch or move anything until the crime lab boys got there and photographed the area. If the bag was ever there then all you've proved is that the crime scene was tampered with/contaminated before the crime lab arrived.


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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #450 on: September 12, 2019, 01:54:13 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #451 on: September 12, 2019, 02:17:10 AM »
Frazier naver paid attention and his sister saw the bag for a few seconds and they both came to the EXACT same answer, geez what are the chances?

JohnM

geez what are the chances?

They are a lot bigger than multiple people "identifying" the same man at a line up, after seeing a man running in the street for merely seconds.


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #452 on: September 12, 2019, 06:24:29 AM »
But don't you understand?  Bill Chapman did his own experiment and got 35 inches.  Probably.

Bill Chapman did his own experiment and got 35 inches
>>>... it fell into my lap.. Ain't mathematics beautiful?

Probably.
>>> No... mathematically
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 09:04:44 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #452 on: September 12, 2019, 06:24:29 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #453 on: September 12, 2019, 07:27:29 AM »




"He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it".
-Linnie Mae Randle/WC Testimony

Tell us how a 27" package could be 'almost touching the ground' when carried by a 5'9' individual
« Last Edit: September 12, 2019, 07:58:25 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #454 on: September 12, 2019, 08:13:13 AM »
"27 inch was based on a guess"

Frazier was corroborated by his sister. They both came up with 27 inches.

They came up with it, all right..

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #454 on: September 12, 2019, 08:13:13 AM »


Offline Ted Shields

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #455 on: September 12, 2019, 01:42:06 PM »
So what did he bring into the TSBD? And how come he didn't bring it out with him, on the bus, in the cab etc?