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Author Topic: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?  (Read 130964 times)

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #384 on: July 10, 2019, 12:22:38 AM »
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So you can't back your claim that Marina's first-day affidavit statement 'opened the blanket two weeks ago' statement was in error. Cool.

Already done.  You must have missed it.

"two weeks ago" is not consistent with "a week after she came from New Orleans".  And she only looked at it one time, so they can't both be true.

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So what if she 'only did this one time'. Was Oswald saying he was a patsy, only one time, good enough for you?

Way to colossolly miss the point.

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Agreeing with me, my arse

Yes, we agree that Marina was clueless about firearms.

So, is your argument that she was so unfamilar with rifles that it must have been a rifle that she saw?


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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #384 on: July 10, 2019, 12:22:38 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #385 on: July 10, 2019, 02:21:44 AM »
Huh?


JohnM

Huh, indeed

Memory loss is...... uhh, I forgot what I was going to say

Offline John Mytton

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #386 on: July 10, 2019, 02:27:25 AM »
"I told them he used to have a rifle to hunt with in Russia"

And indeed Oswald did have a weapon(Marina couldn't tell the difference) back in Russia, so what?

More importantly she says there was a rifle in the Paine garage and it was in her blanket, ouch!

JohnM

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #386 on: July 10, 2019, 02:27:25 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #387 on: July 10, 2019, 02:47:33 AM »
And indeed Oswald did have a weapon(Marina couldn't tell the difference) back in Russia, so what?

More importantly she says there was a rifle in the Paine garage and it was in her blanket, ouch!

JohnM


Great, now make the leap of faith that it was the MC rifle found at the TSBD.... Go on then...

Offline John Mytton

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #388 on: July 10, 2019, 02:53:51 AM »

Great, now make the leap of faith that it was the MC rifle found at the TSBD.... Go on then...

The evidence is that the blanket was empty on the afternoon of the assassination.
Sure you can argue that the rifle was stolen, the kids were playing with it, Oswald took it another time or whatever but who are you trying to convince, yourself?

JohnM

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #388 on: July 10, 2019, 02:53:51 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #389 on: July 10, 2019, 03:07:24 AM »
The evidence is that the blanket was empty on the afternoon of the assassination.
Sure you can argue that the rifle was stolen, the kids were playing with it, Oswald took it another time or whatever but who are you trying to convince, yourself?

JohnM

The evidence is that the blanket was empty on the afternoon of the assassination.

And how exactly do we know there ever was a rifle in that blanket? Michael Paine, who took the package from the car and later moved it several times, thought it was camping equipment, right?

Sure you can argue that the rifle was stolen,

What rifle was stolen?

who are you trying to convince, yourself?

Not really trying at all... I would like the evidence to convince me.... Can you help me with that?


« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 01:49:01 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #390 on: July 10, 2019, 05:14:47 AM »

Already done.  You must have missed it.
>>> Where's the link?

"two weeks ago" is not consistent with "a week after she came from New Orleans".  And she only looked at it one time, so they can't both be true.
>>> Read her affidavit

Way to colossolly miss the point.
>>> Way to colossolly colossally dodge citations Clousseau, Clouseau.

Yes, we agree that Marina was clueless about firearms
>>> She was knowledgeable enough to testify that the rifle/shotgun Oswald had in Russia he also sold in Russia. Which pretty much eliminates it as being in the blanket.

    Mr. RANKIN. Do you know what happened to the gun that you had in Russia? Was it brought over to this country?
    Mrs. OSWALD. No, he sold it there. I did not say so when I had the first interviews. You must understand this was my husband.
    I didn't want to say too much.

So, is your argument that she was so unfamilar with rifles that it must have been a rifle that she saw?
>>> Where do you get that impression?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 07:42:02 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #390 on: July 10, 2019, 05:14:47 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #391 on: July 10, 2019, 06:23:45 AM »
Testimony Of Michael R. Paine
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/paine_m1.htm

[EXCERPTS]

Mr. PAINE - The first time I picked it up I thought it was camping equipment. I said to myself they don't make camping equipment of iron pipes any more.
Mr. LIEBELER - Why did you say that to yourself when you picked up the package?
Mr. PAINE - I had, my experience had been, my earliest camping equipment had been a tent of iron pipes. This somehow reminded me of that. I felt a pipe with my right hand and it was iron, that is to say it was not aluminum.
Mr. LIEBELER - How did you make that distinction?
Mr. PAINE - By the weight of it, and by the, I suppose the moment of inertia, you could have an aluminum tube with a total weight massed in the center somehow but that would not have had the inertia this way.
Mr. DULLES - You were just feeling this through the blanket though?
Mr. PAINE - I was also aware as I was moving his goods around, of his rights to privacy. So I did not feel--I had to move this object, I wasn't thinking very much about it but it happens that I did think a little bit about it or before I get on to the working with my tools I thought, an image came to mind.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you think there was more than one tent pole in the package or just one tent pole?
Mr. PAINE - As I say, I moved it several times, and I think I thought progressively each time. I moved it twice. It had three occasions. And the first one was an iron, thought of an iron pipe and then I have drawn, I drew yesterday, a picture of the thing I had in mind. Then in order to fill out the package I had to add another object to it and there I added again I was thinking of camping equipment, and I added a folding shovel such as I had seen in the Army, a little spade where the blade folds back over the handle. This has the trouble that this blade was too symmetrical I disposed to the handle and to fit the package the blade had to be off center, eccentric to the handle. Also, I had my vision of the pipe. It had an iron pipe about 30 inches long with a short section of pipe going off 45 degrees. No words here, it just happened that I did have this image in my mind of trying to fill up that package in the back burner of my mind.
Mr. LIEBELER - The witness yesterday did draw a picture of what he visualized as being in the blanket, and I will offer it in evidence later on in the hearing.
How long was this package in your estimation?
Mr. PAINE - Well, yesterday we measured the distance that I indicated with my hand, I think it came to 37 inches.
Mr. LIEBELER - Approximately how thick would you say it was?
Mr. PAINE - I picked it up each time and I put it in a position and then I would recover it from that position, so each time I moved it with the same position with my hands in the same position. My right hand, the thumb and forefinger could go around the pipe, and my left hand grabbed something which was an inch and a half inside the blanket or something thick.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did it occur to you at that time that there was a rifle in the package?
Mr. PAINE - That did not occur to me.
Mr. LIEBELER - You never at any time looked inside the package?
Mr. PAINE - That is correct. I could easily have felt the package but I was aware that of respecting his privacy of his possessions.
Mr. LIEBELER - Were you subsequently advised of the probability or the possibility that there had been a rifle wrapped in that package?
Mr. PAINE - When I arrived on Friday afternoon we went into the garage, I think Ruth, Marina and the policeman, and I am not sure it was the first time, but there we saw this blanket was on the floor below the bandsaw--
Mr. PAINE - And a rifle was mentioned and then it rang a bell, the rifle answered, fitted the package that I had been trying to fit these unsuccessfully. It had never resolved itself, this shovel and pipe didn't fit in there.
Mr. LIEBELER - And it seemed to you likely that there had in fact been a rifle in the package?
Mr. PAINE - That answered it.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 06:30:18 AM by Bill Chapman »