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Author Topic: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?  (Read 130955 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2019, 02:42:52 AM »
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Aynesworth is still around, ask him. The quote is inside quotation marks. So it appears to be a direct quote of Wade.

"Appears to be" is good enough for you?

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #104 on: June 10, 2019, 02:42:52 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #105 on: June 10, 2019, 11:13:30 AM »
"Appears to be" is good enough for you?

There are quite a few other quotes of Wade in this section of the book. They are all accompanied with a comment like: Wade later said to me, or Wade recollected, etc. The  quote that we have been discussing is preceded by: He recalled that the evidence....

Yes, Aynesworth is a well respected journalist. I am satisfied.

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2019, 02:03:15 PM »
There are quite a few other quotes of Wade in this section of the book. They are all accompanied with a comment like: Wade later said to me, or Wade recollected, etc. The  quote that we have been discussing is preceded by: He recalled that the evidence....

Yes, Aynesworth is a well respected journalist. I am satisfied.

That explains why you are a LNr…. no desire to ask the hard questions
« Last Edit: June 10, 2019, 02:04:19 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #106 on: June 10, 2019, 02:03:15 PM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #107 on: June 10, 2019, 09:31:08 PM »
That explains why you are a LNr…. no desire to ask the hard questions

You are dead wrong (again). Long before you posted your remark I contacted Hugh Aynesworth today on the telephone. And yes he confirmed that those are direct quotes of Henry Wade in his book. He also told me that James Ewell was the top police reporter for the Dallas Morning News and Carl Freund was a top notch reporter. And that he believed they reported what they were told. He also told me that he saw Henry Wade not long before he passed away and that Wade was still of sound mind.


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #108 on: June 11, 2019, 12:39:51 AM »
You are dead wrong (again). Long before you posted your remark I contacted Hugh Aynesworth today on the telephone. And yes he confirmed that those are direct quotes of Henry Wade in his book. He also told me that James Ewell was the top police reporter for the Dallas Morning News and Carl Freund was a top notch reporter. And that he believed they reported what they were told. He also told me that he saw Henry Wade not long before he passed away and that Wade was still of sound mind.

And we just have to take your word for all this, right?

Let me just repeat what I posted earlier. It shows you perfectly that on 11/22/63 Wade could not have been told about a palmprint from the rifle matching with Oswald, simply because there wasn't one! No matter how many times Wade remembered it incorrectly.

Mr. EISENBERG. So as of November 23, you had not found an identifiable print on Exhibit 139?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. I now hand you a small white card marked with certain initials and with a date, "11-22-63." There is a cellophane wrapping, cellophane tape across this card with what appears to be a fingerprint underneath it, and the handwriting underneath that tape is "off underside of gun barrel near end of foregrip C 2766," which I might remark parenthetically is the serial number of Exhibit 139. I ask you whether you are familiar with this item which I hand you, this card?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I am familiar with this particular exhibit.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you describe to us what that exhibit consists of, that item rather?
Mr. LATONA. This exhibit Or this item is a lift of a latent palmprint which was evidently developed with black powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. And when did you receive this item?
Mr. LATONA. I received this item November 29, 1963.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Who did you get this exhibit, this lift from?
Mr. LATONA. This lift was referred to us by the FBI Dallas office.
Mr. EISENBERG. And were you told anything about its origin?
Mr. LATONA. We were advised that this print had been developed by the Dallas Police Department, and, as the lift itself indicates, from the underside of the gun barrel near the end of the foregrip.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, may I say for the record that at a subsequent point we will have the testimony of the police officer of the Dallas police who developed this print, and made the lift; and I believe that the print was taken from underneath the portion of the barrel which is covered by the stock. Now, did you attempt to identify this print which shows on the lift Exhibit 637?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you succeed in making identification?
Mr. LATONA. On the basis of my comparison, I did effect an identification.
Mr. EISENBERG. And whose print was that, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. The palmprint which appears on the lift was identified by me as the right palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, as I understand it, on November 23, therefore, the FBI had not succeeded in making an identification of a fingerprint or palmprint on the rifle, but several days later by virtue of the receipt of this lift, which did not come with the weapon originally, the FBI did succeed in identifying a print on Exhibit 139?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which may explain any inconsistent or apparently inconsistent statements, which I believe appeared in the press, as to an identification?
Mr. LATONA. We had no personal knowledge of any palmprint having been developed on the rifle.
The only prints that we knew of were the fragmentary prints which I previously pointed out had been indicated by the cellophane on the trigger guard. There was no indication on this rifle as to the existence of any other prints. This print which indicates it came from the underside of the gun barrel, evidently the lifting had been so complete that there was nothing left to show any marking on the gun itself as to the existence of such even an attempt on the part of anyone else to process the rifle.


Mr. BELIN. The wood. You removed the wood, and then underneath the wood is where you found the print?
Mr. DAY. On the bottom side of the barrel which was covered by the wood, I found traces of a palmprint. I dusted these and tried lifting them, the prints, with scotch tape in the usual manner. A faint palmprint came off. I could still see traces of the print under the barrel and was going to try to use photography to bring off or bring out a better print. About this time I received instructions from the chief's office to go no further with the processing, it was to be released to the FBI for them to complete. I did not process the underside of the barrel under the scopic sight, did not get to this area of the gun.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know what Commission Exhibit No. 637 is?
Mr. DAY. This is the trace of palmprint I lifted off of the barrel of the gun after I had removed the wood.
Mr. BELIN. Does it have your name on it or your handwriting?
Mr. DAY. It has the name "J. C. Day," and also "11/22/63" written on it in my writing off the underside gun barrel near the end of foregrip, C-2766.
Mr. BELIN. When you lift a print is it then harder to make a photograph of that print after it is lifted or doesn't it make any difference?
Mr. DAY. It depends. If it is a fresh print, and by fresh I mean hadn't been there very long and dried, practically all the print will come off and there will be nothing left. If it is an old print, that is pretty well dried, many times you can still see it after the lift. In this case I could still see traces of print on that barrel.
Mr. BELIN. Did you do anything with the other prints or partial prints that you said you thought you saw?
Mr. DAY. I photographed them only. I did not try to lift them.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have those photographs, sir? I will mark the two photographs which you have just produced Commission Exhibits 720 and 721. I will ask you to state what these are.
Mr. DAY. These are prints or pictures, I should say, of the latent--of the traces of prints on the side of the magazine housing of the gun No. C-2766.
Mr. BELIN. Were those prints in such condition as to be identifiable, if you know?
Mr. DAY. No, sir; I could not make positive identification of these prints.

Now tell me, who was the expert that made the tentative match with Oswald on 11/22/63



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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #108 on: June 11, 2019, 12:39:51 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #109 on: June 11, 2019, 02:09:51 AM »
And we just have to take your word for all this, right?

Let me just repeat what I posted earlier. It shows you perfectly that on 11/22/63 Wade could not have been told about a palmprint from the rifle matching with Oswald, simply because there wasn't one! No matter how many times Wade remembered it incorrectly.

Mr. EISENBERG. So as of November 23, you had not found an identifiable print on Exhibit 139?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. I now hand you a small white card marked with certain initials and with a date, "11-22-63." There is a cellophane wrapping, cellophane tape across this card with what appears to be a fingerprint underneath it, and the handwriting underneath that tape is "off underside of gun barrel near end of foregrip C 2766," which I might remark parenthetically is the serial number of Exhibit 139. I ask you whether you are familiar with this item which I hand you, this card?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I am familiar with this particular exhibit.
Mr. EISENBERG. Can you describe to us what that exhibit consists of, that item rather?
Mr. LATONA. This exhibit Or this item is a lift of a latent palmprint which was evidently developed with black powder.
Mr. EISENBERG. And when did you receive this item?
Mr. LATONA. I received this item November 29, 1963.

<>

Mr. EISENBERG. Who did you get this exhibit, this lift from?
Mr. LATONA. This lift was referred to us by the FBI Dallas office.
Mr. EISENBERG. And were you told anything about its origin?
Mr. LATONA. We were advised that this print had been developed by the Dallas Police Department, and, as the lift itself indicates, from the underside of the gun barrel near the end of the foregrip.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, may I say for the record that at a subsequent point we will have the testimony of the police officer of the Dallas police who developed this print, and made the lift; and I believe that the print was taken from underneath the portion of the barrel which is covered by the stock. Now, did you attempt to identify this print which shows on the lift Exhibit 637?
Mr. LATONA. Yes; I did.
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you succeed in making identification?
Mr. LATONA. On the basis of my comparison, I did effect an identification.
Mr. EISENBERG. And whose print was that, Mr. Latona?
Mr. LATONA. The palmprint which appears on the lift was identified by me as the right palmprint of Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. EISENBERG. Now, Mr. Latona, as I understand it, on November 23, therefore, the FBI had not succeeded in making an identification of a fingerprint or palmprint on the rifle, but several days later by virtue of the receipt of this lift, which did not come with the weapon originally, the FBI did succeed in identifying a print on Exhibit 139?
Mr. LATONA. That is right.
Mr. EISENBERG. Which may explain any inconsistent or apparently inconsistent statements, which I believe appeared in the press, as to an identification?
Mr. LATONA. We had no personal knowledge of any palmprint having been developed on the rifle.
The only prints that we knew of were the fragmentary prints which I previously pointed out had been indicated by the cellophane on the trigger guard. There was no indication on this rifle as to the existence of any other prints. This print which indicates it came from the underside of the gun barrel, evidently the lifting had been so complete that there was nothing left to show any marking on the gun itself as to the existence of such even an attempt on the part of anyone else to process the rifle.


Mr. BELIN. The wood. You removed the wood, and then underneath the wood is where you found the print?
Mr. DAY. On the bottom side of the barrel which was covered by the wood, I found traces of a palmprint. I dusted these and tried lifting them, the prints, with scotch tape in the usual manner. A faint palmprint came off. I could still see traces of the print under the barrel and was going to try to use photography to bring off or bring out a better print. About this time I received instructions from the chief's office to go no further with the processing, it was to be released to the FBI for them to complete. I did not process the underside of the barrel under the scopic sight, did not get to this area of the gun.
Mr. BELIN. Do you know what Commission Exhibit No. 637 is?
Mr. DAY. This is the trace of palmprint I lifted off of the barrel of the gun after I had removed the wood.
Mr. BELIN. Does it have your name on it or your handwriting?
Mr. DAY. It has the name "J. C. Day," and also "11/22/63" written on it in my writing off the underside gun barrel near the end of foregrip, C-2766.
Mr. BELIN. When you lift a print is it then harder to make a photograph of that print after it is lifted or doesn't it make any difference?
Mr. DAY. It depends. If it is a fresh print, and by fresh I mean hadn't been there very long and dried, practically all the print will come off and there will be nothing left. If it is an old print, that is pretty well dried, many times you can still see it after the lift. In this case I could still see traces of print on that barrel.
Mr. BELIN. Did you do anything with the other prints or partial prints that you said you thought you saw?
Mr. DAY. I photographed them only. I did not try to lift them.
Mr. BELIN. Do you have those photographs, sir? I will mark the two photographs which you have just produced Commission Exhibits 720 and 721. I will ask you to state what these are.
Mr. DAY. These are prints or pictures, I should say, of the latent--of the traces of prints on the side of the magazine housing of the gun No. C-2766.
Mr. BELIN. Were those prints in such condition as to be identifiable, if you know?
Mr. DAY. No, sir; I could not make positive identification of these prints.

Now tell me, who was the expert that made the tentative match with Oswald on 11/22/63

And we just have to take your word for all this, right?

Feel free to verify it with Hugh Aynesworth. I spoke with him for seven minutes beginning at 9:58 am this morning Dallas time. He is very friendly and you should have no problem looking him up.

Now tell me, who was the expert that made the tentative match with Oswald on 11/22/63

Day

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2019, 02:12:35 AM »
And we just have to take your word for all this, right?

Feel free to verify it with Hugh Aynesworth. I spoke with him for seven minutes beginning at 9:58 am this morning Dallas time. He is very friendly and you should have no problem looking him up.

Now tell me, who was the expert that made the tentative match with Oswald on 11/22/63

Day

Quote
Now tell me, who was the expert that made the tentative match with Oswald on 11/22/63

Day

So Day lied in his WC testimony?

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #110 on: June 11, 2019, 02:12:35 AM »


Online Charles Collins

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #111 on: June 11, 2019, 02:24:21 AM »