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Author Topic: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)  (Read 13127 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2019, 08:29:02 AM »
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This isn't so easy. Are you repeating the same stuff and expecting a different outcome?

Frazier shown CE142 on the night of the 22nd, undertook polygraph and apparently passed......go figure. Wonder if he said not paying attention then.

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This isn't so easy.

Wrong!

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Are you repeating the same stuff and expecting a different outcome?

Sorry if the actual evidence is so inconvenient but it is what it is.

Quote
Frazier shown CE142 on the night of the 22nd, undertook polygraph and apparently passed......go figure. Wonder if he said not paying attention then.

Huh? Frazier had no choice but to admit that Oswald carried CE142 and Frazier being the simpleton who no doubt believed that "lie detector" tests were faultless told the truth.

JohnM

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #24 on: May 30, 2019, 08:29:02 AM »


Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2019, 08:57:30 AM »
Wrong!

Sorry if the actual evidence is so inconvenient but it is what it is.

Huh? Frazier had no choice but to admit that Oswald carried CE142 and Frazier being the simpleton who no doubt believed that "lie detector" tests were faultless told the truth.

JohnM

Frazier had no choice but to admit that Oswald carried CE142

except for the fact that Frazier never ever admitted any such thing, you are absolutely right  Thumb1:


and Frazier being the simpleton who no doubt believed that "lie detector" tests were faultless told the truth.

Indeed! Which was that the bag shown to him (CE142) was in fact not the bag he had seen Oswald carry. He also added that Oswald's bag was a flimsy sack which CE142, made of shipping paper, cleary isn't. So, yes, Frazier did tell the truth!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 09:58:53 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2019, 09:01:56 AM »
Wrong!

Sorry if the actual evidence is so inconvenient but it is what it is.

Huh? Frazier had no choice but to admit that Oswald carried CE142 and Frazier being the simpleton who no doubt believed that "lie detector" tests were faultless told the truth.

JohnM

I read somewhere that lie detectors only work if you believe they do.....QED.

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2019, 09:01:56 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2019, 09:35:27 AM »
I read somewhere that lie detectors only work if you believe they do.....QED.

Much like nitrate tests and the threat of violence, lie detectors were used as a bluff to extract information. And don't forget that Oswald who like Frazier wasn't exactly bright, also refused a Polygraph.

JohnM

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2019, 09:37:38 AM »
Much like nitrate tests and the threat of violence, lie detectors were used as a bluff to extract information. And don't forget that Oswald who like Frazier wasn't exactly bright, also refused a Polygraph.

JohnM

And don't forget that Oswald who like Frazier wasn't exactly bright, also refused a Polygraph.

Really, did he now?

And if he did, what do you think that means?


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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2019, 09:37:38 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2019, 09:38:27 AM »
Frazier had no choice but to admit that Oswald carried CE142

except for the fact that Frazier never ever admitted any such thing, you are absolutely right  Thumb1:


Frazier shown CE142 on the night of the 22nd, undertook polygraph and apparently passed......go figure.

JohnM

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2019, 09:58:06 AM »
JohnM

Indeed, but you missed the part where Frazier denied that CE142 was the bag he had seen Oswald carry.

At 11.30 pm on 11/22/63 Frazier was being polygraphed by DPD detective R.D. Lewis. During this session, Frazier was shown the paper bag that had been found at the TSBD, which at that time (except for the fact that it had been dusted in vain for prints at the TSBD) was still in its original state. Frazier could not identify the bag as the one he had seen Oswald carry, some 16 / 17 hours earlier and the polygraph did not register an anomaly.

According to a report by FBI agent Vincent Drain, dated December 1, 1963, the polygrapher R.D. Lewis stated that Frazier had told him that the "crickly brown paper sack" Oswald had carried did not resemble the ?home made heavy paper gun case? the DPD officers had shown him. Drain added that Lewis referred to the bag as "paper gun case" because the DPD is of the opinion the brown heavy paper was used by Oswald to carry the rifle into the building?.

A memo from FBI agent James Anderton to SAC Dallas, dated 11/29/63, reveals the desperation of Lt. Day after Frazier failed to identify the heavy bag found at the TSBD. Anderton writes that, according to Lt Day, Frazier described the bag Oswald had carried as "definitely a thin, flimsy sack like the one purchased in a dime store". The memo then goes on to say;

"Lt. Day states that he and other officers have surmised that Oswald, by dismantling the rifle, could have placed it in the thick brown sack folder over, and then placed the entire package in the flimsy paper sack"

« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 10:03:27 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2019, 09:58:06 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Buell's "off" day (aka: oh yeah)
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2019, 10:03:27 AM »

A memo from FBI agent James Anderton to SAC Dallas, dated 11/29/63, reveals the desperation of Lt. Day after Frazier failed to identify the heavy bag found at the TSBD. Anderton writes that, according to Lt Day, Frazier described the bag Oswald had carried as "definitely a thin, flimsy sack like the one purchased in a dime store". The memo then goes on to say;

"Lt. Day states that he and other officers have surmised that Oswald, by dismantling the rifle, could have placed it in the thick brown sack folder over, and then placed the entire package in the flimsy paper sack"

Mr. BALL. Looking at this part of the bag which has not been discolored does that appear similar to the color of the bag you saw Lee carrying that morning?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes; it is a heavy type of wrapping paper.

Mr. BALL. What was he carrying?
Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me.


JohnM