If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....


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Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2020, 01:48:48 PM »
Oh, wait: So everybody is lying. Pretty sure raincoats can be worn over jackets.
Placing that into evidence 57 years later are you? Do you ignore that Givens first told investigators that the last time he saw Oswald was in the lunchroom domino room at 11:50 or did you just not read it?
Maybe you don't want to? Didn't say everybody was lying... just guys like Belin and Givens who was paid off in some way. Folks that told the straight up truth about the shooting were ignored it seems.
Quote
November 22, 1963 Rt 146 p.m. Inspector Sawyer of the Dallas police issued an alert on the police radio for Charles Givens, a porter at the Book Depository, because he had "a police record and he left" (CE 705 page 30). It was known at that hour that Oswald, too, had left the scene but no alert for him was issued ó Captain Will Fritz and two detectives intended to proceed to Irving perscnelly, in search of Oswald. Within an hour or two, Givens was escorted to the police headquarters, where he was questioned and where he executed an affidavit stating that he had left the sixth floor at about 11:30 a.m., had gone to the washroom, at noon had taken his lunch period, had gone to a parking lot to visit with a friend employed there (CE .2003 page 27). Givens' affidavit said nothing about a return to the sixth. floor for cigarettes or an encounter there with Oswald. Later that day Givens was interviewed by FBI agen:s Griffen and Odum. He gave them the same story as in the affidavit but added one additional piece of information that at 11:50 a.m. he had seen Oswald reading a paper in the "domino room" on the first floor (CD 5 page 329).
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/G%20Disk/Givens%20Charles/Item%2003.pdf
 
« Last Edit: December 04, 2020, 01:51:25 PM by Jerry Freeman »

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2020, 01:48:48 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2020, 01:54:34 PM »
Many of the witnesses show signs of "pre-prepping".
Some said that the commission writers changed what they said in testimony.

Online Joe Elliott

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2020, 02:30:44 AM »

What do you call it when someone changes their story Bill? Itís in the documents. The question is not if but why.

I call it typical human behavior. Human memory is unreliable. It is normal for peopleís story to change over time. The only exception is if someone is working from a script and spends a good deal of effort to make certain they have all the details nailed down.

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2020, 02:30:44 AM »


Offline Pat Speer

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2020, 03:01:21 AM »
I call it typical human behavior. Human memory is unreliable. It is normal for peopleís story to change over time. The only exception is if someone is working from a script and spends a good deal of effort to make certain they have all the details nailed down.

Givens' changing his story is not as fishy as Belin's failure to point it out to him. Belin created a memo regarding Givens' previous statements. He knew darn well that Givens had NEVER before said anything about seeing Oswald on the sixth floor AFTER the elevator race, and that he (and all his co-workers) had previously said they'd seen (or heard) Oswald on the fifth floor as they'd raced the elevators down for lunch.

Strong support for their collaboration in Givens' lie, moreover, can be found in the subsequent statements of Belin. Decades after Sylvia Meagher first pointed out the change in Givens' story, Belin continued to insist Givens was one of the most important witnesses. He was blowing smoke.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 08:53:58 PM »
 
Givens' changing his story is not as fishy as Belin's failure to point it out to him. He knew darn well that Givens had NEVER before said anything about seeing Oswald on the sixth floor AFTER the elevator race ....Belin continued to insist Givens was one of the most important witnesses. He was blowing smoke.
Smoke was his most important client.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 11:08:10 PM »
Givens' changing his story is not as fishy as Belin's failure to point it out to him. Belin created a memo regarding Givens' previous statements. He knew darn well that Givens had NEVER before said anything about seeing Oswald on the sixth floor AFTER the elevator race, and that he (and all his co-workers) had previously said they'd seen (or heard) Oswald on the fifth floor as they'd raced the elevators down for lunch.

Strong support for their collaboration in Givens' lie, moreover, can be found in the subsequent statements of Belin. Decades after Sylvia Meagher first pointed out the change in Givens' story, Belin continued to insist Givens was one of the most important witnesses. He was blowing smoke.

It's no more fishy than you lot comparing the purpose of an affidavit to the purpose of a full testimony

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 11:08:10 PM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2020, 11:10:43 PM »
It's no more fishy than you lot comparing the purpose of an affidavit to the purpose of a full testimony

What was the purpose of the affidavit Bill? What was the focus that afternoon with the floor laying crew members, Dougherty and Frazier?

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2020, 02:51:06 AM »
It's no more fishy than you lot comparing the purpose of an affidavit to the purpose of a full testimony
Both are sworn statements.... Givens' testimony was made basically in a back room with only Belin, Givens and the stenographer present. No other Commission witness was so discreetly interviewed.
So...how come?

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Re: If Charles Givens was such an important witness.....
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2020, 02:51:06 AM »


 

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