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Author Topic: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders  (Read 7421 times)

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2019, 12:19:45 PM »
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Exactly. Which makes Bill Chapman's claim;

kind of silly and irrelevant

Are you just trying to ignore the officers? verbal description of the scene, and Alyea?s film of the area prior to its being disrupted by the police looking for fingerprints?

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2019, 12:19:45 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2019, 12:23:43 PM »
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So, you're changing the subject rather than explaining your 'silly and irrelevant' charge about Oswald's fingerprints found on boxes in the sniper's nest. Typical CT 'whataboutism'.

One more time: Are you still claiming that my point about Oswald's fingerprints found on the box in a placement that would position the box in a specific direction (thus suggesting a rifle support built for a downrange firing position) somehow silly and irrelevant?

So, you're changing the subject rather than explaining your 'silly and irrelevant' charge about Oswald's fingerprints found on boxes in the sniper's nest. Typical CT 'whataboutism'.

Evasive! You brought up the photograph and basically claimed or at least implied it was taken before anybody had messed with the sniper's nest. If that was true then the paper bag should be in the photo and it isn't. My question is a valid one and you seem to lack an answer

One more time: Are you still claiming that my point about Oswald's fingerprints found on the box in a placement that would position the box in a specific direction (thus suggesting a rifle support built for a downrange firing position) somehow silly and irrelevant?


Yes, because you have no way of knowing how the boxes were really placed. Instead you rely on a photograph with questionable validity.



« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 12:34:55 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2019, 12:32:32 PM »
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Are you just trying to ignore the officers? verbal description of the scene, and Alyea?s film of the area prior to its being disrupted by the police looking for fingerprints?

Are you just trying to ignore the officers? verbal description of the scene,

No need, the officers' descriptions of the scene differ sufficiently to be uncertain about what the scene really was.


and Alyea?s film of the area prior to its being disrupted by the police looking for fingerprints?

If I recall correctly, Alyea's film of the area also does not show the paper bag in situ, nor it's removal from the sniper's nest, which either indicates that the bag wasn't there to begin with or it was already removed by somebody.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 12:34:26 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2019, 12:32:32 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2019, 12:47:00 PM »
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Are you just trying to ignore the officers? verbal description of the scene,

No need, the officers' descriptions of the scene differ sufficiently to be uncertain about what the scene really was.


and Alyea?s film of the area prior to its being disrupted by the police looking for fingerprints?

If I recall correctly, Alyea's film of the area also does not show the paper bag in situ, nor it's removal from the sniper's nest, which either indicates that the bag wasn't there to begin with or it was already removed by somebody.

Or perhaps, just maybe, the film was taken from such an angle that the area where the bag was found was blocked by other boxes or even out the frame of view.

Offline Richard Smith

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2019, 02:47:59 PM »
If the ONLY evidence found was Oswald's prints on the boxes, then it might alone not be sufficient to prove his guilt.  But taken within the totality of evidence, it is highly probative.  To suggest that his prints being found on the SN boxes is "silly and irrelevant" tells us we are dealing with someone who is just playing defense attorney/devil's advocate and can't be taken seriously.  Not that there was any prior doubt.  When all is said and done, the evidence always points back to one person.   All the more humorous is the notion espoused by these same parties that it is a "strawman" argument to suggest they are implying a conspiracy.  Oswald was apparently just the unluckiest guy in history.  Of all the TSBD employees, he is the only one to touch these particular boxes and the bag.  He decides not to watch the motorcade like nearly every other employee and thus has no credible alibi.  Somehow his rifle magically appears with his prints on it.  He decides to knock off early for a movie and is the only person on planet Earth to be in the TSBD at the time of the assassination to pass the scene of the Tippit murder.  The only Dallas PD officer murdered in a several year period.  What are the odds that Oswald is at the scene of a presidential assassination and police murder within a one hour period?  And he looks so much like the Tippit shooter that several witnesses identify him as the murderer.   And he has a pistol with the same two brands of ammo used by the murderer.  When he goes window shopping for some shoes, he attracts the suspicion a random salesman.  Terrible luck.  Then he decides to duck into the movie without buying a ticket.  More bad luck.  This results in the police being called on him while just wondering about in Mr. Magoo-like bliss.  And instead of just answering their questions he decides to put up a fight.  And on and on.   But this is all "silly and irrelevant."  Nothing to see here.  Just an incredible series of bad luck and random citizens all lying for no apparent reason to implicate him.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 04:15:40 PM by Richard Smith »

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2019, 02:47:59 PM »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2019, 03:47:16 PM »





Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2019, 04:18:47 PM »






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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2019, 04:18:47 PM »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2019, 04:46:52 PM »





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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #17 on: May 13, 2019, 04:46:52 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2019, 05:10:22 PM »
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If the ONLY evidence found was Oswald's prints on the boxes, then it might alone not be sufficient to prove his guilt.  But taken within the totality of evidence, it is highly probative.  To suggest that his prints being found on the SN boxes is "silly and irrelevant" tells us we are dealing with someone who is just playing defense attorney/devil's advocate and can't be taken seriously.  Not that there was any prior doubt.  When all is said and done, the evidence always points back to one person.   All the more humorous is the notion espoused by these same parties that it is a "strawman" argument to suggest they are implying a conspiracy.  Oswald was apparently just the unluckiest guy in history.  Of all the TSBD employees, he is the only one to touch these particular boxes and the bag.  He decides not to watch the motorcade like nearly every other employee and thus has no credible alibi.  Somehow his rifle magically appears with his prints on it.  He decides to knock off early for a movie and is the only person on planet Earth to be in the TSBD at the time of the assassination to pass the scene of the Tippit murder.  The only Dallas PD officer murdered in a several year period.  What are the odds that Oswald is at the scene of a presidential assassination and police murder within a one hour period?  And he looks so much like the Tippit shooter that several witnesses identify him as the murderer.   And he has a pistol with the same two brands of ammo used by the murderer.  When he goes window shopping for some shoes, he attracts the suspicion a random salesman.  Terrible luck.  Then he decides to duck into the movie without buying a ticket.  More bad luck.  This results in the police being called on him while just wondering about in Mr. Magoo-like bliss.  And instead of just answering their questions he decides to put up a fight.  And on and on.   But this is all "silly and irrelevant."  Nothing to see here.  Just an incredible series of bad luck and random citizens all lying for no apparent reason to implicate him.

To suggest that his prints being found on the SN boxes is "silly and irrelevant"

I did not suggest that. You need to learn to understand what is written!

The remainder of your rant isn't worth any kind of serious discussion.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2019, 05:38:24 PM »
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The sniper's nest boxes were photographed in the position they were found before removing them for fingerprinting.

So, you are basically saying that nobody messed with the crime scene before that photo was taken... Yeah right, so why is the infamous paper bag not in the picture?

You haven't changed your very annoying habit of trying to tell people that they said something that they didn't say. Bill didn't say nobody messed with the crime scene before that picture was taken. He said the boxes were photographed in the position they were found before removing them for fingerprinting.

 Robert Studebaker returned to the southeast corner and continued processing the items as instructed by Day, while Day processed the rifle found in the northwest corner. Here is his testimony along with the related photo exhibits. This explains why the paper bag is not in the picture.

Mr. BALL. Did you take a picture of the window in the southeast corner?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Were there any boxes on the ledge of this window?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you take some pictures showing those boxes?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was that before any of them were moved?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. That picture right there is the one that shows them, and the other pictures show them before they were moved.
Mr. BALL. You mean Exhibit A and B?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. A and B.





Mr. BALL. Do you have any pictures of the boxes before they were moved other than those you have showed me?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Just these two.
Mr. BALL. Just the two that show the cartons, and those are Exhibits A and B?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. We have probably got one down there I can get you that is a lot better print than that. If you want a better print, I can get it for you.
Mr. BALL. Then, you don't have any pictures taken of the boxes before they were moved?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No.



Mr. BALL. Now, did you at any time see any paper sack around there?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes sir.
Mr. BALL. Where?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Storage room there - in, the southeast corner of the building folded.
Mr. BALL. In the southeast corner of the building?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was a paper - I don't know what it was.
Mr. BALL. And it was folded, you say?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where was it with respect to the three boxes of which the top two were Rolling Readers?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Directly east.
Mr. BALL. There is a corner there, isn't it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir; in the southeast corner.
Mr. BALL. It was in the southeast corner?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I drew that box in for somebody over at the FBI that
said you wanted it. It is in one of those pictures - one of the shots after the duplicate shot.
Mr. BALL. Let's mark this picture "Exhibit F."
(Instrument marked by the reporter as "Studebaker Exhibit F," for identification.)
Mr. BALL. Do you know who took that picture?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No; I don't.
Mr. BALL. Do you recognize the diagram?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you draw the diagram?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I drew a diagram in there for the FBI, somebody from the FBI called me down - I can't think of his name, and he wanted an approximate location of where the paper was found.
Mr. BALL. Does that show the approximate location?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where you have the dotted lines?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.



Mr. BALL. Now, there is something that looks like steam pipes or water pipes in the corner there?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where was that with reference to those pipes - the paper wrapping?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Laying right beside it - right here.
Mr. BALL. Was it folded over?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was doubled - it was a piece of paper about this long and it was doubled over.
Mr. BALL. How long was it, approximately?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. I don't know - I picked it up and dusted it and they took it down there and sent it to Washington and that's the last I have seen of it, and I don't know.
Mr. BALL. Did you take a picture of it before you picked it up?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No.
Mr. BALL. Does that sack show in any of the pictures you took?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. No; it doesn't show in any of the pictures.
Mr. BALL. Was it near the window?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Which way from the window?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was east of the window.
Mr. BALL. Over in the corner?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Over in the corner - in the southeast corner of the building, in the far southeast corner, as far as you can get is where it was


Mr. BALL. Now, did you also lift a print off of the box?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You lifted a print off of a box?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where was the box?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. The box was due north of the paper that was found, and it was, I believe, we have it that it was - I can read the measurements off of one of these things - how far it was.
Mr. BALL. Fine, do that.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was 16 1/2 inches from the - from this wall over here (Indicating).
Mr. BALL. Which wall are you talking about?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. It was from the south wall of the building.
Mr. BALL. Did you take a picture of that box in place before it was moved?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. The box from which you lifted the prints?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. This box never was moved.
Mr. BALL. That box never was moved?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. That box never was moved.
Mr. BALL. And you took a picture of it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And that was the location of it when you lifted the print of it?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And may I have that, please, and we will mark it Exhibit G.




Mr. BALL. The picture of the boxes; this is after they were moved?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir; they were moved there. This is exactly the position they were in.
Mr. BALL. It is?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes - not - this was after they were moved, but I put them in the same exact position.
Mr. BALL. Were they that close - that was about the position?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Let's take one of these pictures and mark it the next number, which will be "Exhibit J."
(Instrument marked by the reporter as "Studebaker Exhibit J," for identification)
Mr. BALL. After the boxes of Rolling Readers had been moved, you put them in the same position?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And took a picture?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And this is Exhibit J, is it, is that right?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Exhibit J, yes, sir.




« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 07:21:55 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2019, 05:38:24 PM »

 

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