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Author Topic: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders  (Read 8107 times)

Online Bill Brown

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Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« on: May 12, 2019, 08:09:14 AM »
In the sniper's nest, there were four boxes used in connection with the shooting.  One large box containing books and then two of the smaller "Rolling Readers" boxes atop the large box of books.  The fourth box was on the floor behind the stack of three,
obviously used as a seat.

On one of the Rolling Readers boxes at the window, Oswald's left palmprint and his right index fingerprint were found.

The employees laying the floor moved the large boxes of books from the west end of the floor over to the east end.  However, the "Rolling Readers" boxes did not need to be moved, i.e. they weren't over on the west end where the new floor was being placed down.  The two "Rolling readers" boxes in the sniper's nest were originally about three aisles over from the sniper's nest window and were taken to that window for the purposes of being used as a gun rest.  The "Rolling Readers" boxes didn't contain books.

On the box on the floor, the one used as a seat, Day, using powder, dusted the box and developed a palmprint.  Latona examined the print and found it to be from Oswald's right palm.  Because Day used a powder to develop the print, Latona stated that not too long a time had passed between the time the print was placed on the box and the time it was developed by Day.  Powder cannot develop prints beyond a certain point in time.

FBI experiments showed that twenty-four hours was a likely maximum time between the print being placed on the box and the time it was developed by the powder.  However, Latona would only state that he could only testify with certainty that the print was less than three days old.

Arthur Mandella (fingerprint expert, NYPD), examined the prints and agreed that they belonged to Oswald.  Mandella was of the opinion that the palmprint developed by Day (using the powder) from the box on the floor (the one used as a seat) was probably made within a day to a day and a half of the examination made on the 22nd.

Oswald could obviously have handled the boxes as part of his normal work duties.  Fingerprints were taken from the twelve Depository employees who may have had cause to handle the boxes (found in the sniper's nest) as part of their normal work duties as well.

Other identifiable prints were developed on the boxes.  These prints were compared with the fingerprints of all other employees as well as law enforcement personnel who handled the boxes.  None of the identifiable prints belonged to any of the other employees.

Point being, the larger box on the sniper's nest floor used as a seat, was moved by the floor laying crew at some point earlier in the week.  Day dusted this box with powder and developed a palmprint, which Latona said belonged to Oswald.  The process of using the powder develops prints based on perspiration and therefore would not find prints older than one to three days (time frame dependent on which fingerprint expert you listen to).

While it's possible to handle the boxes and not leave a print at all, it's also likely as possible that Oswald was the only person to handle that box at any point in time past Tuesday the 19th (per Latona's three days out).  Or, if you go by Mandella of the NYPD, Oswald could have been the only person to handle that box after Wednesday the 20th.  If you go by the FBI's experiments, Oswald was possibly the only person to handle that box after Thursday the 21st.

Oswald's prints on the boxes prove he was in that window, but they can't prove when he was there exactly.

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Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« on: May 12, 2019, 08:09:14 AM »

Online Ray Mitcham

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2019, 09:15:47 AM »
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In the sniper's nest, there were four boxes used in connection with the shooting.  One large box containing books and then two of the smaller "Rolling Readers" boxes atop the large box of books.  The fourth box was on the floor behind the stack of three,
obviously used as a seat.

On one of the Rolling Readers boxes at the window, Oswald's left palmprint and his right index fingerprint were found.

The employees laying the floor moved the large boxes of books from the west end of the floor over to the east end.  However, the "Rolling Readers" boxes did not need to be moved, i.e. they weren't over on the west end where the new floor was being placed down.  The two "Rolling readers" boxes in the sniper's nest were originally about three aisles over from the sniper's nest window and were taken to that window for the purposes of being used as a gun rest.  The "Rolling Readers" boxes didn't contain books.

On the box on the floor, the one used as a seat, Day, using powder, dusted the box and developed a palmprint.  Latona examined the print and found it to be from Oswald's right palm.  Because Day used a powder to develop the print, Latona stated that not too long a time had passed between the time the print was placed on the box and the time it was developed by Day.  Powder cannot develop prints beyond a certain point in time.

FBI experiments showed that twenty-four hours was a likely maximum time between the print being placed on the box and the time it was developed by the powder.  However, Latona would only state that he could only testify with certainty that the print was less than three days old.

Arthur Mandella (fingerprint expert, NYPD), examined the prints and agreed that they belonged to Oswald.  Mandella was of the opinion that the palmprint developed by Day (using the powder) from the box on the floor (the one used as a seat) was probably made within a day to a day and a half of the examination made on the 22nd.

Oswald could obviously have handled the boxes as part of his normal work duties.  Fingerprints were taken from the twelve Depository employees who may have had cause to handle the boxes (found in the sniper's nest) as part of their normal work duties as well.

Other identifiable prints were developed on the boxes.  These prints were compared with the fingerprints of all other employees as well as law enforcement personnel who handled the boxes.  None of the identifiable prints belonged to any of the other employees.

Point being, the larger box on the sniper's nest floor used as a seat, was moved by the floor laying crew at some point earlier in the week.  Day dusted this box with powder and developed a palmprint, which Latona said belonged to Oswald.  The process of using the powder develops prints based on perspiration and therefore would not find prints older than one to three days (time frame dependent on which fingerprint expert you listen to).

While it's possible to handle the boxes and not leave a print at all, it's also likely as possible that Oswald was the only person to handle that box at any point in time past Tuesday the 19th (per Latona's three days out).  Or, if you go by Mandella of the NYPD, Oswald could have been the only person to handle that box after Wednesday the 20th.  If you go by the FBI's experiments, Oswald was possibly the only person to handle that box after Thursday the 21st.

Oswald's prints on the boxes prove he was in that window, but they can't prove when he was there exactly.
"Oswald's prints on the boxes prove he was in that window, but they can't prove when he was there exactly."

Sorry Bill, it does nothing of the kind. It may prove he handled the boxes, but it doesn't prove he was there.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2019, 09:08:22 PM »
Yep. Just a coincidence that Oswald's prints were found in a position that would indicate handling the box in such a way so as to position it in a precise direction; ie straight down Broadway.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 12:22:26 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2019, 09:08:22 PM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2019, 12:47:51 AM »
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Yep. Just a coincidence that Oswald's prints were found in a position that would indicate handling the box in such a way so as to position it in a precise direction; ie straight down Broadway.

Were the prints taken before or after they moved the boxes?

You do know the boxes were moved, don't you?

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 01:31:40 AM »
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In the sniper's nest, there were four boxes used in connection with the shooting.  One large box containing books and then two of the smaller "Rolling Readers" boxes atop the large box of books.  The fourth box was on the floor behind the stack of three,
obviously used as a seat.

On one of the Rolling Readers boxes at the window, Oswald's left palmprint and his right index fingerprint were found.

The employees laying the floor moved the large boxes of books from the west end of the floor over to the east end.  However, the "Rolling Readers" boxes did not need to be moved, i.e. they weren't over on the west end where the new floor was being placed down.  The two "Rolling readers" boxes in the sniper's nest were originally about three aisles over from the sniper's nest window and were taken to that window for the purposes of being used as a gun rest.  The "Rolling Readers" boxes didn't contain books.

On the box on the floor, the one used as a seat, Day, using powder, dusted the box and developed a palmprint.  Latona examined the print and found it to be from Oswald's right palm.  Because Day used a powder to develop the print, Latona stated that not too long a time had passed between the time the print was placed on the box and the time it was developed by Day.  Powder cannot develop prints beyond a certain point in time.

FBI experiments showed that twenty-four hours was a likely maximum time between the print being placed on the box and the time it was developed by the powder.  However, Latona would only state that he could only testify with certainty that the print was less than three days old.

Arthur Mandella (fingerprint expert, NYPD), examined the prints and agreed that they belonged to Oswald.  Mandella was of the opinion that the palmprint developed by Day (using the powder) from the box on the floor (the one used as a seat) was probably made within a day to a day and a half of the examination made on the 22nd.

Oswald could obviously have handled the boxes as part of his normal work duties.  Fingerprints were taken from the twelve Depository employees who may have had cause to handle the boxes (found in the sniper's nest) as part of their normal work duties as well.

Other identifiable prints were developed on the boxes.  These prints were compared with the fingerprints of all other employees as well as law enforcement personnel who handled the boxes.  None of the identifiable prints belonged to any of the other employees.

Point being, the larger box on the sniper's nest floor used as a seat, was moved by the floor laying crew at some point earlier in the week.  Day dusted this box with powder and developed a palmprint, which Latona said belonged to Oswald.  The process of using the powder develops prints based on perspiration and therefore would not find prints older than one to three days (time frame dependent on which fingerprint expert you listen to).

While it's possible to handle the boxes and not leave a print at all, it's also likely as possible that Oswald was the only person to handle that box at any point in time past Tuesday the 19th (per Latona's three days out).  Or, if you go by Mandella of the NYPD, Oswald could have been the only person to handle that box after Wednesday the 20th.  If you go by the FBI's experiments, Oswald was possibly the only person to handle that box after Thursday the 21st.

Oswald's prints on the boxes prove he was in that window, but they can't prove when he was there exactly.

I like the wording on page 537 of ?Pictures of the Pain? by Richard Trask:

This evidence alone could not be conclusive that Oswald was the assassin, but was of probative value concluding that Oswald was at this area as set up.

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2019, 01:31:40 AM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2019, 01:41:34 AM »
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Were the prints taken before or after they moved the boxes?

You do know the boxes were moved, don't you?

As the processing with black powder was done on each carton stacked near the window, it was moved to allow work to be done on the next.

As Day testified, ?They had simply been moved in the processing for prints. They weren?t put back in any particular order.?

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2019, 02:37:07 AM »
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As the processing with black powder was done on each carton stacked near the window, it was moved to allow work to be done on the next.

As Day testified, “They had simply been moved in the processing for prints. They weren’t put back in any particular order.”

Exactly. Which makes Bill Chapman's claim;

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Yep. Just a coincidence that Oswald's prints were found in a position that would indicate handling the box in such a way so as to position it in a precise direction; ie straight down Broadway.

kind of silly and irrelevant

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2019, 02:37:07 AM »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2019, 06:48:49 AM »
@ Newbies: The sniper's nest boxes were photographed in the position they were found before removing them for fingerprinting.
According to my information, Box 'A' the smaller of the stack of two, had a palm print and a fingerprint identified as Oswald's.



The boxes were then examined for prints and returned to the sniper's nest, placed
randomly near the window. That random placement caused certain CT brainiacs to
wet their panties and claim these random placements as the actual placement positions
during the shooting.




 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 07:11:35 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2019, 06:48:49 AM »

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2019, 07:10:04 AM »
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@ Newbies: The sniper's nest boxes were photographed in the position they were found before removing them for fingerprinting.
According to my information, Box 'A' the smaller of the stack of two, had a palm print and a fingerprint identified as Oswald's.



The boxes were then examined for prints and returned to the sniper's nest, placed
randomly near the window. That random placement caused certain CT brainiacs to
wet their panties and claim these random placements as the actual placement positions
during the shooting.





The sniper's nest boxes were photographed in the position they were found before removing them for fingerprinting.

So, you are basically saying that nobody messed with the crime scene before that photo was taken... Yeah right, so why is the infamous paper bag not in the picture?


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2019, 08:00:30 AM »
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The sniper's nest boxes were photographed in the position they were found before removing them for fingerprinting.

So, you are basically saying that nobody messed with the crime scene before that photo was taken... Yeah right, so why is the infamous paper bag not in the picture?

So, you're changing the subject rather than explaining your 'silly and irrelevant' charge about Oswald's fingerprints found on boxes in the sniper's nest. Typical CT 'whataboutism'.

One more time: Are you still claiming that my point about Oswald's fingerprints found on the box in a placement that would position the box in a specific direction (thus suggesting a rifle support built for a downrange firing position) somehow silly and irrelevant?
 
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 09:07:04 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2019, 08:00:30 AM »

 

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