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Author Topic: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders  (Read 8108 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2019, 02:38:04 PM »
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If you believe Oswald was framed, what difference would it make had the bag been photographed?  The rifle and shells were photographed and CTers still believe those were planted.  I'm not sure how photographing the bag moves the ball or how not photographing it makes any difference.  It's difficult to also understand what is being suggested.   That Oswald didn't carry a long bag that day?  That Frazier lied about this for some unknown reason.  That the conspirators/police behind the frame up of Oswald forgot to plant it, but then it suddenly occurred to them after months or years of planning.  And that they constructed one and somehow got six DPD members to lie about it but for some reason couldn't photograph it on the 6th floor?  That counter narrative doesn't add up to anything plausible. It's grasping at straws. We will never know for certain why it wasn't photographed.  My best guess is that the authorities were not initially looking for a bag or paying it much attention.  The floor was full of stuff.  They are looking for a gun, shells, a suspect.  It takes them a while to link the bag to the assassin.  Maybe it gets moved around during the search etc.  Memories get confused because they didn't take much notice, it gets moved, some notice it but others do not.  Who knows?  The fact remains that Oswald carried a long bag, this is the only such bag found, it has Oswald's prints on it, it is located next to the SN.  I don't think it takes Sherlock Holmes to connect the dots.  The implication, however, that it was planted necessitates a wildly implausible scenario.

The implication, however, that it was planted necessitates a wildly implausible scenario.

Planted by whom? Don't you first need to determine that before you dismiss it als a "wildly implausible scenario"?


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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #140 on: May 30, 2019, 02:38:04 PM »

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #141 on: May 30, 2019, 02:47:16 PM »
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The implication, however, that it was planted necessitates a wildly implausible scenario.

Planted by whom? Don't you first need to determine that before you dismiss it als a "wildly implausible scenario"?

No.  The implications of the bag being planted necessitate an implausible alternative chain of events regardless of "who" was responsible.  And it is difficult to understand how anyone other than the DPD could have been responsible for planting the bag since they are the ones who controlled the crime scene, claimed to have seen it next to the SN, recovered it, and found Oswald's prints on it.  Are you saying someone else could have done all that?  The bag is photographed coming out of the building shortly after 2PM.  So who else had access and control of the evidence within the TSBD to do all that before the bag emerges at that time?

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2019, 02:55:08 PM »
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No.  The implications of the bag being planted necessitate an implausible alternative chain of events regardless of "who" was responsible.  And it is difficult to understand how anyone other than the DPD could have been responsible for planting the bag since they are the ones who controlled the crime scene, claimed to have seen it next to the SN, recovered it, and found Oswald's prints on it.  Are you saying someone else could have done all that?  The bag is photographed coming out of the building shortly after 2PM.  So who else had access and control of the evidence within the TSBD to do all that before the bag emerges at that time?

Are you saying someone else could have done all that?

I don't know. You seem to believe only the DPD could have done it. I'm not so sure. The bag they allegedly found was made from materials common to the TSBD. For all we know, it could have been on the 6th floor for days and Oswald, just like others, could have touched it there. After all, it was a location where he and others worked and there were unidentifiable prints on the bag as well, right?

« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 03:01:31 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #142 on: May 30, 2019, 02:55:08 PM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #143 on: May 30, 2019, 02:58:48 PM »
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No.  The implications of the bag being planted necessitate an implausible alternative chain of events regardless of "who" was responsible.  And it is difficult to understand how anyone other than the DPD could have been responsible for planting the bag since they are the ones who controlled the crime scene, claimed to have seen it next to the SN, recovered it, and found Oswald's prints on it.  Are you saying someone else could have done all that?  The bag is photographed coming out of the building shortly after 2PM.  So who else had access and control of the evidence within the TSBD to do all that before the bag emerges at that time?

Who is claiming the bag was planted?

I think we can agree the crime scene was less than securely controlled.

We have a number of police officers documented to have found it.....surely it can only be one. I believe Montgomery gets that nod.

They did not find Oswald's prints on the bag. That was the FBI on the 23rd.

The bag came out at 3pm.

Can you give us an idea when (approximately) it was discovered?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 02:59:47 PM by Colin Crow »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2019, 03:49:11 PM »
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Lillian Mooneyham
a.Dallas County clerk watching motorcade from Judge King's windows on the second floor, southwest corner, Criminal
Courts Building, with Mrs. Rose Clark and Jeanette hooker.
b.Heard three shots(?)
c.Heard first shot;saw President slump; thought it was Firecracker.
d.Second and third shots were closer together.
e.Saw Mrs. Kennedy climb on back of car.
f.Mooneyham went Judge Hyer's windows on the third floor of Records Building.
g.People running to pergola.
h.41/2 to 5 minutes after shots she sees man standing behind some boxes on the 6th floor, TSBD.

    "Mrs. MOONEYHAM estimated that it was about 4 to 5 minutes following the shots fired
     by the assassin that she looked up towards the sixth floor of the TSBD and observed
     the figure of a man standing in a sixth floor window behind some cardboard boxes."

Mooneyham doesn't specify she saw the man in the SN window.

Quote

---------------------

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"The panel studied two photographs taken within minutes of the assassination. While no human face or form could be detected
in the sixth floor southeast window, the panel was able to conclude that a stack of boxes had been rearranged during the
interval of the taking of the two photographs."


The interval the panel refers to is between the taking of the Powell and Dillard photographs, and so has nothing to do with Mooneyham's obversation four to five minutes after that. The panel thought the sunlit boxes in the background seen in the open window in Powell were added to the scene when compared with the Dillard photograph take a minute before. But 3D demonstrates the sunlit boxes are the same in both photographs.



The box-rearrangment claim was the only conclusion in the HSCA Photographic Panel report that HSCA consultant Robert Groden didn't take issue with.

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #144 on: May 30, 2019, 03:49:11 PM »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #145 on: May 30, 2019, 04:36:05 PM »
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Too bad Oswald's rifle was found on the same floor

You mean the rifle with questionable documentation, which you can not show was ever in Ruth Paine's garage and which Marina, according to her first day affidavit, couldn't identify? Is that the rifle you mean?

the actual Murder Weapon

And you know this, how?

He doesn't.  He thinks that if he repeats the same claim over and over again that it somehow becomes "evidence".

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2019, 05:13:35 PM »
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The panel thought the sunlit boxes in the background seen in the open window in Powell were added to the scene when compared with the Dillard photograph take a minute before. But 3D demonstrates the sunlit boxes are the same in both photographs.

Are you suggesting that the HSCA photographic panel didn't understand simple perspective?  Wouldn't that call their other conclusions into question?

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #146 on: May 30, 2019, 05:13:35 PM »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2019, 09:14:56 PM »
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Are you suggesting that the HSCA photographic panel didn't understand simple perspective?

Maybe the Panel would accept the 3D study. Maybe not. What I know for sure is that a good many conspiracy kooks don't, as they keep trotting-out the box-rearrangement claim.

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #147 on: May 30, 2019, 09:14:56 PM »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #148 on: May 30, 2019, 11:26:20 PM »
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Are you suggesting that the HSCA photographic panel didn't understand simple perspective?  Wouldn't that call their other conclusions into question?

Quote
Wouldn't that call their other conclusions into question?

WHAT? Another illogical self serving Iacoletti generalization but sure if you want, go ahead and discard all their studies of multiple photographs showing cardboard box positioning.

JohnM

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2019, 11:50:17 PM »
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WHAT? Another illogical self serving Iacoletti generalization but sure if you want, go ahead and discard all their studies of multiple photographs showing cardboard box positioning.

Did they or did they not conclude that the boxes were repositioned after the shooting?  Do you agree with their conclusion?

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Re: Rolling Readers & Murdered Leaders
« Reply #149 on: May 30, 2019, 11:50:17 PM »

 

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