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Author Topic: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"  (Read 1489 times)

Online Colin Crow

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That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« on: May 05, 2019, 12:07:20 PM »
"Vice-President Nixon, who portrayed himself in his memoirs as one of the original architects of the plan to overthrow Castro, proposed to the CIA that they support "goon squads and other direct action groups" inside and outside of Cuba. The Vice President repeatedly sought to interfere in the invasion planning.  Through his national security aide, Nixon demanded that William Pawley, "a big fat political cat," as Nixon?s aide described him to the CIA, be given briefings and access to CIA officers to share ideas. Pawley pushed the CIA to support untrustworthy exiles as part of the effort to overthrow Castro. ?Security already has been damaged severely,"the head of the invasion planning reported, about the communications made with one, Rubio Padilla, one of Pawley's favorite militants."

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« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 10:21:00 PM by Colin Crow »

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That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« on: May 05, 2019, 12:07:20 PM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2019, 10:26:09 PM »
"President Kennedy?s former press secretary, Pierre Salinger, said Maheu told him the CIA-Mafia plots against Castro were authorized by Nixon:

I knew Maheu well. He told me [in 1968, when Salinger was soliciting Maheu?s boss, Howard Hughes, for a campaign contribution to Robert Kennedy?s White House bid] about his meetings with the Mafia. He said he had been in contact with the CIA, that the CIA had been in touch with Nixon, who had asked them to go forward with this project . . . It was Nixon who had him [Maheu] do a deal with the Mafia in Florida to kill Castro.?"

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Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2019, 02:55:58 AM »
The issue of Cuba came up in the 1960 presidential debates.
Nixon about choked when he heard JFK mention something that he was supposed to have been briefed on and apparently wasn't.
There was a plan to invade Cuba and Kennedy let something about incursion blurt out. I can't recall exactly when...but here is the second of four debates in Oct 1960 & starting around 3:02 ---

Notice that there were no women reporters asking the questions back then :-\

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2019, 02:55:58 AM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2019, 04:43:36 AM »
Hi Jerry,

I seem to remember that Kennedy managed to "out-hawk" Nixon on Cuba before the election. This was of much concern to Nixon, after all the Cuba invasion etc were his, yet he was hamstrung at the time of the debates. I had thought it was the during the 4th debate, probably faulty memory.

Clearly the BOP operation and the CIA/Mafia based Castro assassination plots originated with Nixon. After all he was the "President-in-waiting". The blame for CIA/Mafia usually falls to Bissell, but such actions surely required at least WH approval.

Does any evidence exist that the incoming Pres was briefed and approved of the Castro plots?
« Last Edit: May 06, 2019, 05:18:12 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 01:22:53 AM »
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Does any evidence exist that the incoming Pres was briefed and approved of the Castro plots?
There is no such evidence because he wasn't briefed on any plot against Castro or any plans to invade Cuba since everyone thought that Richard Nixon would certainly win the election anyway and it wouldn't be necessary.
 Laughable- that Nixon played footsie with Batista but suggested that he didn't consider him a dictator [or if he did ...El Presidente was our dictator] so then he wasn't so bad.

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2019, 01:22:53 AM »

Online Richard Rubio

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2019, 01:38:51 AM »
Quote
On October 26, 2017, declassified documents revealed that US Attorney General Robert Kennedy hesitated to recruit the Mafia in assassination attempts on Castro due to his push against organized crime.[10]
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This sure rings a bell, it would've gone against the trend of what we, the USA, did back in those days.

Online Colin Crow

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2019, 04:46:40 AM »
The relevant document referred to in the wiki entry appears to be this......

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A report by David Belin from 1975 (Rockefeller Commission). The faulty memories of Bissell and Edwards, trying to move the Castro plots to the Kennedy administration, are noted. From what I have read so far, RFK was only briefed about the Mafia plots in May 1962 after Houston tells Edwards that the Attorney General should be told the whole story. According to Houston, RFK was displeased about any Mafia involvement and he was to be informed before any such undertakings were proposed in the future. RFK sent a memo to that extent on May 9 to FBI Director Hoover.

It would appear that activity until that time was undertaken by the CIA via the original previous administration approval (read Nixon!).
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 05:12:46 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2019, 04:46:40 AM »

Online Tom Scully

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2019, 07:32:38 AM »
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The relevant document referred to in the wiki entry appears to be this......

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A report by David Belin from 1975 (Rockefeller Commission). The faulty memories of Bissell and Edwards, trying to move the Castro plots to the Kennedy administration, are noted.....

It would appear that activity until that time was undertaken by the CIA via the original previous administration approval (read Nixon!).

I believe you are an academic located in a Commonwealth nation. Macomber facilitated (and more) E Howard Hunt's attempt, while of the Nixon white house, to use classified State Dept cables to and from the US embassy in Saigon, Hunt altered to shift blame for the
assassination of South Vietnamese political leadership, attempting to fraudulantly shift blame to the by then deceased Kennedy brothers.

Do you detect a positive contribution, an example of why republicans on the national political stage have served a useful purpose
beneficial to Americans generally, because I am not finding one, except perhaps for whatever limiting influence on democrats knowing
they are being carefully watched, to be held accountable justifiably at times, at other times, not. The only positive thing that comes to mind
is that the sudden deaths of JFK, MLK, and RFK in rather rapid succession were lucky breaks politically and ideologically for Bushes and their
water boys, but apparently not appreciated enough to prevent the recruitment of Bush Hand Macomber to help drive one more ole rusty
nail with Hunt's hammer, into the coffins of those Kennedy brothers.

Will any in a long series of lucky breaks ever be enough to influence deradicalization of US republican or libertarian right?

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2019, 07:32:38 AM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2019, 07:55:32 AM »
"As Vice President, Nixon had chaired Special Group 54-12 that coordinated the actions of the CIA and military intelligence during the latter years of the Eisenhower Administration (Groden & Livingstone, I990, p  316). The Special Group or Committee was established by President Eisenhower to serve as a watchdog by monitoring all covert activities. The 54-12 Committee or Special Group included the Director of the CIA, the President's special assistant for national security. the Deputy Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Undersecretary of State, and by 1957, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (Roberts, I994, p. 97). Nixon was directly involved in the initial planning ofthe Bay of Pigs invasion."

RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, By H. R. Underwood

I can't find any "official" references to the statement that Nixon chaired the Special Group however I did find this which tends to contradict that notion.

"President Eisenhower had great confidence in the efficacy of covert operations as a viable supplement or alternative to normal foreign policy activities. The seeming clear success of the operations to overthrow Iranian populist leader Mossadegeh in 1953 and the left-leaning President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954 was not without their crisis moments in the White House. In 1954 NSC 5412 provided for the establishment of a panel of designated representatives of the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense to meet regularly to review and recommend covert operations. Gordon Gray assumed the chairmanship of the "5412 Committee" as it was called, and all succeeding National Security Advisers have chaired similar successor committees, variously named "303", "40", "Special Coordinating Committee," which, in later Presidential administrations, were charged with the review of CIA covert operations."

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« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 08:01:04 AM by Colin Crow »

Online Tom Scully

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 09:42:04 AM »
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"As Vice President, Nixon had chaired Special Group 54-12 that coordinated the actions of the CIA and military intelligence during the latter years of the Eisenhower Administration (Groden & Livingstone, I990, p  316). The Special Group or Committee was established by President Eisenhower to serve as a watchdog by monitoring all covert activities. The 54-12 Committee or Special Group included the Director of the CIA, the President's special assistant for national security. the Deputy Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Undersecretary of State, and by 1957, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs (Roberts, I994, p. 97). Nixon was directly involved in the initial planning ofthe Bay of Pigs invasion."

RENDEZVOUS WITH DEATH: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy, By H. R. Underwood

I can't find any "official" references to the statement that Nixon chaired the Special Group however I did find this which tends to contradict that notion.

"President Eisenhower had great confidence in the efficacy of covert operations as a viable supplement or alternative to normal foreign policy activities. The seeming clear success of the operations to overthrow Iranian populist leader Mossadegeh in 1953 and the left-leaning President Arbenz in Guatemala in 1954 was not without their crisis moments in the White House. In 1954 NSC 5412 provided for the establishment of a panel of designated representatives of the President and the Secretaries of State and Defense to meet regularly to review and recommend covert operations. Gordon Gray assumed the chairmanship of the "5412 Committee" as it was called, and all succeeding National Security Advisers have chaired similar successor committees, variously named "303", "40", "Special Coordinating Committee," which, in later Presidential administrations, were charged with the review of CIA covert operations."

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Some say 5412 was a deflection and an attempt to discourage the suspicion Majestik-12 had some ufo aliens details it was
holding close. 54 was the year of creation/distraction and 12 was retained from Majestik-12. Nixon being a chair of either 12 group
was unlikely because the purpose of the panel was to fashion a wall of fall guys affording the political leadership, VP and  POTUS,
plausible deniability as to any emerging details of government sponsored dirty work. Majestik-12 and its successor 5412 allegedly authorized all approved Ops in advance. POTUS and VP were always officially out of the loop. The thinness of supporting sources claiming
Nixon chaired either Special  Group is scant, shallow, unimpressive. Plausible deniability at the highest levels is intended to be challenging
to dismantle.

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Re: That "whole Bay of Pigs thing"
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2019, 09:42:04 AM »

 

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