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Author Topic: Thomas M. Atkins  (Read 1519 times)

Online Royell Storing

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2019, 05:06:04 PM »
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In any event, if indeed the reference to BobJackson (right rear of that car) is indicative of CameraCar3 (2nd steel blue '64 Chevrolet Convertible), is there any information about the arm waving/tossing motion of the GentlemanImage in CameraCar2 (1st steel blue '64 ChevroletConvertible)?

    Please remember the Camera Men in all 3 cars are Jammed into these vehicles amidst jostling with their cumbersome cameras, winding them, loading them, and even sometimes lighting & going through the motions of smoking cigarette(s). Their arms and bodies in general are frequently in motion.

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2019, 05:06:04 PM »

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2019, 03:51:59 AM »
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Charles,
This stabilized version shows a little more detail, but I still wouldn't want to say he is checking his watch (he could be, but I can't tell). There is a slight 'interference' just as the motorcycle rider (McLain) leaves the frame to the left. There is a film splice just at this time when Atkins appears to jerk his head.



When composing the stabilized GIF in reply #4, I saw something I've not noticed before. At 18 frames in the full Hughes clip, Camera Car #3 is smoothly ending its turn to Houston street but then abruptly takes a jump forward of about 3 feet in just 1 frame. This is about 3 times faster than the film's rate. At a frame rate of 18.3 fps (Dale Myers} each frame clocks about 55 ms. A car speed of 10 mph would advance 14-15 ft per second (0.8 ft per frame), or 3 feet in 206 ms. At 5 mph the interval is still less than half a second.

Basically, the film is missing 3-4 frames during this forward jump, which would be typical of a simple frame splice. But here is the rub. There is no splice bracketing this event. A careful analysis of the scene frames, as well as for 20 or more scenes filmed by Hughes, shows a startup frame (first frame overexposure) for the first frame following the jump. Meaning Hughes released and then enabled the shutter in the blink of an eye. Intentional, or reflexive actions? The head turns noted by Charles Collins of  Atkins and his left side passenger in Camera Car#1 follow by about 1 second.

James

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2019, 12:31:05 PM »
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When composing the stabilized GIF in reply #4, I saw something I've not noticed before. At 18 frames in the full Hughes clip, Camera Car #3 is smoothly ending its turn to Houston street but then abruptly takes a jump forward of about 3 feet in just 1 frame. This is about 3 times faster than the film's rate. At a frame rate of 18.3 fps (Dale Myers} each frame clocks about 55 ms. A car speed of 10 mph would advance 14-15 ft per second (0.8 ft per frame), or 3 feet in 206 ms. At 5 mph the interval is still less than half a second.

Basically, the film is missing 3-4 frames during this forward jump, which would be typical of a simple frame splice. But here is the rub. There is no splice bracketing this event. A careful analysis of the scene frames, as well as for 20 or more scenes filmed by Hughes, shows a startup frame (first frame overexposure) for the first frame following the jump. Meaning Hughes released and then enabled the shutter in the blink of an eye. Intentional, or reflexive actions? The head turns noted by Charles Collins of  Atkins and his left side passenger in Camera Car#1 follow by about 1 second.

James

Interesting, it appears to me that the car hesitates at this point. Is that only due to the slowed speed of your clip? Or, are there multiple frames of the car in that same position?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2019, 12:54:56 PM by Charles Collins »

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2019, 12:31:05 PM »

Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2019, 04:34:40 PM »
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Interesting, it appears to me that the car hesitates at this point. Is that only due to the slowed speed of your clip? Or, are there multiple frames of the car in that same position?
Sorry, I did not explain the entire animation was slowed 5x for the two frames (last of first segment and first of second segment) slowed 5x slower yet. This was done to help draw the eye to where the jump is most obvious but also to allow the viewer time to estimate just how much the motorcade moved during the pause. I used CC2's left rear tire to estimate a forward movement of about 1.5 tire diameters. Of course, it is not just CC2 affected by the pause. Look at the stabilized animation from reply #4. Watch how CC1 smoothly decreases in size as it moves further from the camera until there is a subtle but sudden change in apparent size as if frames were removed. Not removed but never filmed. The shift forward comes before the splice that follows.  Here is the last animation slowed consistently 5x.



Online Charles Collins

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2019, 09:16:59 PM »
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Sorry, I did not explain the entire animation was slowed 5x for the two frames (last of first segment and first of second segment) slowed 5x slower yet. This was done to help draw the eye to where the jump is most obvious but also to allow the viewer time to estimate just how much the motorcade moved during the pause. I used CC2's left rear tire to estimate a forward movement of about 1.5 tire diameters. Of course, it is not just CC2 affected by the pause. Look at the stabilized animation from reply #4. Watch how CC1 smoothly decreases in size as it moves further from the camera until there is a subtle but sudden change in apparent size as if frames were removed. Not removed but never filmed. The shift forward comes before the splice that follows.  Here is the last animation slowed consistently 5x.



Yes, I see. Thanks!

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2019, 09:16:59 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2019, 09:25:55 PM »
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When composing the stabilized GIF in reply #4, I saw something I've not noticed before. At 18 frames in the full Hughes clip, Camera Car #3 is smoothly ending its turn to Houston street but then abruptly takes a jump forward of about 3 feet in just 1 frame. This is about 3 times faster than the film's rate. At a frame rate of 18.3 fps (Dale Myers} each frame clocks about 55 ms. A car speed of 10 mph would advance 14-15 ft per second (0.8 ft per frame), or 3 feet in 206 ms. At 5 mph the interval is still less than half a second.

Basically, the film is missing 3-4 frames during this forward jump, which would be typical of a simple frame splice. But here is the rub. There is no splice bracketing this event. A careful analysis of the scene frames, as well as for 20 or more scenes filmed by Hughes, shows a startup frame (first frame overexposure) for the first frame following the jump. Meaning Hughes released and then enabled the shutter in the blink of an eye. Intentional, or reflexive actions? The head turns noted by Charles Collins of  Atkins and his left side passenger in Camera Car#1 follow by about 1 second.

James

James, the more I considered this, the more convinced I am that the fraction of a second stop/start of Hughes' camera is highly unusual and therefore it could be a startle reaction to the sound of the first shot. So I want to thank you again for your post. I checked Dale Meyers' synchronization report of the films and he reports that there are six frames missing due to this stop/start. There are other items of evidence to support this theory. The image below will illustrate some of what I am going to write:



The Tina Towner film ends just barely before the Hughes Film split-second break. Tina has said that the first shot occured just after she stopped filming. At essentially the same time as the Hughes film split second break, the Dorman film shows one extremely blurred frame (which I believe indicates a sudden jerk (startle reaction) before stopping for 49 frames.

Here is a photo of the camera car #1 occupants by Jay Skaggs as they round the corner of Main and Houston:



Notice that Thomas Atkins (right rear) is standing up as the car rounds the turn. And if you look carefully, you can see what appears to be his wristwatch under his left arm jacket sleeve. Apparently, he has just sat back down by the time he appears in the Hughes film clip. So my focus has shifted to the very first part of the Hughes film clip (before the split-second break). His posture appears that he could be lowering his head to look at his watch (the right elbow extends outward, which would be consistent with this theory). But I couldn't say conclusively that he is looking at his watch. So again I request others to take a look and give their opinions.

Other evidence that supports this early first shot timing includes Howard Brennan's affidavit of 11/22/63 that states JFK's back was inline with the last window (west) of the south side of the TSBD when the first shot sounded. And the interesting work of Max Holland, which is described in this well written article by Kenneth R. Scearce:

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The above article includes some well done clips of the Zapruder film.

This Willis Lamm article is interesting also:

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Offline James Hackerott

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2019, 03:05:31 AM »
Charles,
Thank you for your comments too.
I also checked Myers's synchronization work a few days after I last posted to this thread and saw that he did acknowledge the Hughes 6 frame stop-start event. Trask did not mention it in his detailed summary of the Hughes film (Pictures of the Pain appendix pages 617-618).
 
I looked at the Skaggs05 frame but can't determine if I see a watch, or just part of the camera. I've little doubt Atkins wore a watch.

Here are some additional random and brief observations to those you mentioned above:

John Martin was filming during this period and seems to have held rock steady.

Mark Bell stopped filming about 1 second before the Hughes pause, with the single last frame blurred.

Tina Towner also held rock steady during this interval, but with with the 7 frames missing about 4 seconds earlier who knows what might have happened then.

Phil Willis slide #4 was also taken about this time. I think though the blurriness of the limo occupants was more due to poor focus than motion blur.

Thanks for both links, I don't recall reading either one before.

I found a study online that was printed in the Journal of Neurophysiology.
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This study included the determination of reaction times taken of an extended index finger pressed onto a switch. The reaction time 76.2 15.7 ms was determined from the time of the audio stimulus to when the finger raised from the switch.  FWIW.

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2019, 03:05:31 AM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2019, 01:53:34 PM »
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Charles,
Thank you for your comments too.
I also checked Myers's synchronization work a few days after I last posted to this thread and saw that he did acknowledge the Hughes 6 frame stop-start event. Trask did not mention it in his detailed summary of the Hughes film (Pictures of the Pain appendix pages 617-618).
 
I looked at the Skaggs05 frame but can't determine if I see a watch, or just part of the camera. I've little doubt Atkins wore a watch.

Here are some additional random and brief observations to those you mentioned above:

John Martin was filming during this period and seems to have held rock steady.

Mark Bell stopped filming about 1 second before the Hughes pause, with the single last frame blurred.

Tina Towner also held rock steady during this interval, but with with the 7 frames missing about 4 seconds earlier who knows what might have happened then.

Phil Willis slide #4 was also taken about this time. I think though the blurriness of the limo occupants was more due to poor focus than motion blur.

Thanks for both links, I don't recall reading either one before.

I found a study online that was printed in the Journal of Neurophysiology.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

This study included the determination of reaction times taken of an extended index finger pressed onto a switch. The reaction time 76.2 15.7 ms was determined from the time of the audio stimulus to when the finger raised from the switch.  FWIW.

Thanks James, one other item (that I meant to include in my previous post) is the action of D.V. Harkness , the traffic cop assigned to the intersection of Main and Houston. From the first time I saw this clip, many years ago, I wondered what had caused  Harkness to turn away from his primary duty of the control of the intersection and walk towards where the limousine was traveling while apparently looking very intently for something. And whether he had just heard the sound of the first shot. If so, his actions would fit what I might expect.

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2019, 01:53:34 PM »

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2019, 04:25:26 PM »
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Charles,
Thank you for your comments too.
I also checked Myers's synchronization work a few days after I last posted to this thread and saw that he did acknowledge the Hughes 6 frame stop-start event. Trask did not mention it in his detailed summary of the Hughes film (Pictures of the Pain appendix pages 617-618).
 
I looked at the Skaggs05 frame but can't determine if I see a watch, or just part of the camera. I've little doubt Atkins wore a watch.

Here are some additional random and brief observations to those you mentioned above:

John Martin was filming during this period and seems to have held rock steady.

Mark Bell stopped filming about 1 second before the Hughes pause, with the single last frame blurred.

Tina Towner also held rock steady during this interval, but with with the 7 frames missing about 4 seconds earlier who knows what might have happened then.

Phil Willis slide #4 was also taken about this time. I think though the blurriness of the limo occupants was more due to poor focus than motion blur.

Thanks for both links, I don't recall reading either one before.

I found a study online that was printed in the Journal of Neurophysiology.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

This study included the determination of reaction times taken of an extended index finger pressed onto a switch. The reaction time 76.2 15.7 ms was determined from the time of the audio stimulus to when the finger raised from the switch.  FWIW.

Mark Bell stopped filming about 1 second before the Hughes pause, with the single last frame blurred.

Yes, and I believe that the blurred frame is likely due to his haste to jump down from the pedestal and move to his second position to continue filming. Bell has stated that all three of the shots occurred during that time frame that he was moving. And when he resumed filming the limo was going under the triple underpass.

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Re: Thomas M. Atkins
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2019, 04:25:26 PM »

 

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