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Author Topic: Mr Billy Lovelady  (Read 3278 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2019, 08:46:47 PM »
Now!

Many people-------------even those with no time for the Oswald-Is-DoorwayMan-In-Altgens idea---------------have commented over the years on how different Mr Lovelady appears between here...



...and here...



They've heard all the arguments about aspect ratio and light conditions, but they still feel something is off. They wonder---------despite themselves!---------Can this really be the same man?

Question #7!

What if they're right to wonder?

What if the reason this man-------



-------looks huskier and, well, different to the Mr Lovelady seen in other images is that he isn't actually Mr Lovelady?

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2019, 09:05:49 PM »
But who could this man in Hughes & Martin be, if not Mr Lovelady? And what possible reason would Mr Lovelady have had to lie (in later years) about having worn a red plaid shirt that day?

How about we go back to the clip of 'Mr Lovelady' sitting in the squadroom at City Hall watching Mr Oswald being brought by?



How about we simply accept Mr Lovelady's statement to Mr Ball in his WC testimony that he did not see Mr Oswald again that day?

(Note: Mr Charles Givens had his affidavit taken by Det. Leavelle along with Mr Lovelady. Here's what he testified:

"Mr. BELIN. Did you ever see Lee Oswald at any time after the time you saw him carrying the clipboard on the sixth floor?
Mr. GIVENS. No, sir. The next time I saw him was on television.")

Okay, but who did see Mr Oswald being brought in through the squadroom?

Answer:

1. Mr Bill Shelley-------who had to vacate the interview supply room in back in order to let Mr Oswald be brought in there:



2. + 3. Let us turn to the description of the scene given by Mr Walter Eugene Potts during his WC testimony:

So, they brought him on back in while we were sitting back in the squadroom and I was sitting back there with Dougherty and Arce, and they came by and put him in the side interrogation room back there. As you walk in the door, there is an interrogation room right straight ahead and then you turn right to go back in the squadroom and you go on back in the squadroom, and this Mr. Dougherty looked at me and he said, "I know that man."

Question #8!

What if the husky man in the red plaid shirt on 11/22 is none other than Mr Jack Edwin Dougherty?

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2019, 09:05:49 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #12 on: April 19, 2019, 09:21:05 PM »
But we still haven't answered the question asked in the previous post:

Why would Mr Lovelady lie (in later years) about having worn the red plaid shirt?

I believe that question may be closely tied up with another (Question #9!):

Why is Mr Dougherty the only one of Mr Oswald's co-workers of whom we have never seen a confirmed contemporary image?

To approach an answer to these questions, I want to quote from something Mr Anthony Clayden wrote on this forum on 3 April:

Only one person fits the following, "the closest person without an alibi, with unimpeded access to the shooter's nest, whose testimony is unbelievable, had military training, and was "emotionally" unstable"
He reported being at the back of the 5th/6th floor, but is not seen by Bonnie Ray Williams (BRW) as he traverses from right next to the shooters nest to the front of the 5th, about 2 to 3 minutes before the shooting. [...]
Reports using the lift done to the first floor, but the conversation he claims he had with Eddie Piper, Piper can't remember.
His out of character action of returning to work early, his laughable reason for not watching the parade (clearly didn't remember windows existed).
If Oswald had have reported hearing a noise, travelled all the way to the first floor, been told that the President was shot, then went back to work by himself, LNers would take it as clear evidence that he was the shooter.


Next I want to quote from the 11/22 affidavit given by Officer Marrion L. Baker:

As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to that man and he turned around and came back toward me. The manager said, "I know that man, he works here." I then turned the man loose and went up to the top floor.  The man I saw was a white man approximately 30 years old, 5' 9", 165 pounds, dark hair and wearing a light brown jacket.

Finally I want to point out the one salient fact about the shooter's appearance noted and recalled by Mr Amos Euins:

"He had a bald spot on his head." (WC testimony)


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2019, 09:52:24 PM »
MEMORANDUM

TO: J Lee Rankin

FROM: Melvin A. Eisenberg

SUBJECT: Identity of Assassin

I think a thorough investigation should he run on a TSBD employee named Jack Dougherty.

On the morning of November 22, Dougherty was part of a crew laying a new plywood floor on the sixth floor of the TSBD. This crew consisted of Danny Arce, Dougherty, Charles Givens, James ("Junior") Jarman, Billy Lovelady, and Bonnie Rae Williams, all regular employees in the TSBD shipping and. order-filling department.

They were apparently working under the direction of William Shelley the senior employee in that department.

In a written statement to the Dallas police on November 22,

Dougherty gave the following story: On the morning of November 22, he had worked [with the floor laying crew] on the sixth floor until 12:00, when he went down to the first floor to eat his lunch. After lunch he returned to work [on the sixth floor] and then went down to the fifth floor "to get some stock," when he heard a shot, which sounded as if it had come from inside the building. He then went down to the first floor and asked Eddie Piper, the TSBD Janitor, whether Piper had heard anything. Piper said yes, he had heard 3 shots. Dougherty then returned to the sixth floor. (81B.20)[

SA Blake of the Secret Service, who interviewed Dougherty between December 2 and December 5, reported that "when Dougherty was interviewed he seemed to be very confused about time and places. Mr. Truly [Roy S. Truly, Superintendent of the TSBD] finished the information that although Dougherty is a very good employee and a hard worker, he is mentally retarded and has difficulty in remembering facts, such as dates, times, places, and. has-been especially confused since the assassination." (SS 1*91 at p. 7)

I am suspicious of Dougherty for several reasons.

(1) He has no alibi. Of the six employees on the floor laying crew, Givens claims to have been with a friend at a parking lot several blocks away when the assassination took place; Williams and Jarman were together on the fifth floor with another employee named Norman; Lovelady was standing outside the TSBD (and was photographed); and Arce claims to have been standing outside the TSBD.

Dougherty was inside the TSBD and all alone.

(2) His story is very thin.

(a) It does not make sense that Dougherty, one of a six-man floor laying crew, should begin working before the other five members returned from lunch.

( b ) It is questionable that Dougherty would have had to go to the fifth floor to get "stock" in connection with the floor-laying project.

1/ Dougherty’s father told the FBI that Dougherty had received a medical discharge from the U.S. Army and had considerable difficulty coordinating his mental facilities and his speech. (5.367)

(c) Jarman, Norman, and Williams, who were at the southeast window of the fifth floor at the time of the assassination, and ran from there to the southwest window, make absolutely no mention of having seen Dougherty on the fifth floor.

(d) It does not seem credible that Dougherty would have gone down to the first floor, found out that the three shots had been fired, and then casually returned to the sixth floor.

(e) No report indicates that Dougherty or anyone else was on the sixth floor when that floor was searched

(f) Since Dougherty heard the shots on the fifth floor, and since the shots were fired at approximately 12:32, Dougherty must have returned to the sixth floor, allegedly to go back to work, before 12:30. This seems odd, since the TSBD lunch period extends until 12:45.

(3) If Dougherty is “mentally retarded,” it may explain some of the inconsistencies in his story. On the other hand, the “mental retardation” may be an emotional problem, which would itself be grounds for suspicion. In this connection, I find disturbing Truly’s comment that Dougherty “has been especially confused since the assassination.”

cc: Ball

Belin

Craig

Adams

Specter

Redlich

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #13 on: April 19, 2019, 09:52:24 PM »


Online John Mytton

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #14 on: April 19, 2019, 10:51:52 PM »
Now!

Many people-------------even those with no time for the Oswald-Is-DoorwayMan-In-Altgens idea---------------have commented over the years on how different Mr Lovelady appears between here...



...and here...



They've heard all the arguments about aspect ratio and light conditions, but they still feel something is off. They wonder---------despite themselves!---------Can this really be the same man?

Question #7!

What if they're right to wonder?

What if the reason this man-------



-------looks huskier and, well, different to the Mr Lovelady seen in other images is that he isn't actually Mr Lovelady?

Quote
They've heard all the arguments about aspect ratio and light conditions, but they still feel something is off.

Well guess what Einstein, the ratio is way off. Standardised NTSC output image is 4:3. Whoever captured the video deliberately squashed the footage to make Lovelady appear thicker. Naughty naughty!





Here's a comparison that is centered directly on Lovelady.



JohnM
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 11:59:09 PM by John Mytton »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2019, 12:52:44 AM »
Let's start with this clip, taken in the squadroom at City Hall some 90 minutes after the assassination:



Question #1!

Given that Mr Lovelady clearly notices Mr Oswald being brought past him, why on earth will he----------in his WC testimony------------tell Mr Ball that he did not see Mr Oswald again that day from the time the Depository workers broke for lunch?

That Gif only shows Lovelady looking at Oswald after he has passed by and is facing the other direction. It's quite possible that Lovelady never recognized the individual as being Oswald.

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2019, 12:52:44 AM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2019, 01:03:51 AM »
We have footage of Mr Lovelady wearing a long-sleeved red plaid shirt that day.

E.g.:



Question #2!

Why will Mr Lovelady inform the FBI in February '64, and Mr Jones Harris subsequently, that the shirt he was wearing out on the steps at the time of the motorcade was a short-sleeved, vertically striped red and white shirt?





And... why will he years later protest that he said no such thing, even posing for photographs on several occasions in the red plaid shirt?



What normal adult male remembers what shirt they were wearing on a particular day three months prior?

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2019, 01:47:16 AM »
Alan, I believe Tom Scully has previously posted documentation to the effect that JED was over 6’ tall.....maybe 6'2”.

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2019, 01:47:16 AM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2019, 04:53:46 AM »
Alan, I believe Tom Scully has previously posted documentation to the effect that JED was over 6’ tall.....maybe 6'2”.



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« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 05:01:05 AM by Tom Scully »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2019, 05:18:16 AM »


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Thanks Tom....out by an inch.  :)

 

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