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Author Topic: Mr Billy Lovelady  (Read 6064 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2019, 10:38:21 AM »
Friends, I got it wrong on Mr Dougherty. Hands up, and thanks again to Messrs Scully and Crow for setting me right!  Thumb1:

But!

I am still not convinced that Mr Lovelady is the man in the plaid shirt on 22 November.

It seems to me we might possibly be dealing with 2 different men here:

1. The Real Mr Billy Nolan Lovelady (a.k.a. Almost-Completely-Bald-On-Top Lovelady) in short-sleeved shirt with vertical red and white stripes
------Wiegman
------Altgens [I'll come to this!]
------later seen in the photo sneaked of him in 1964:



2. Not-So-Bald-On-Top 'Lovelady' (though with a large bald spot on crown) in Red Plaid Shirt
-------DPD squadroom footage
-------Hughes
-------Martin


I would like to propose-----------as a tentative theory------------the following:

1. Mr Lovelady is the 'Doorway Man' in Altgens
1a. He was wearing the short-sleeved red/white striped shirt

2. Another man looking somewhat like Mr Lovelady (and hence somewhat like someone else) was... elsewhere at the time of the motorcade
2a. He had a prominent bald spot and was, at the time of the motorcade, wearing only a white tshirt

3. After the assassination...
3a. Mr Lovelady went back into the building and stayed there until being brought down to City Hall
3b. 'Mr Lovelady' (who had been caught by Officer Baker "walking away from the stairs" on "the third or fourth floor" but vouched for as an employee by Mr Truly) stood out on the steps, smoking... he was now wearing a red plaid shirt

4. 'Mr Lovelady' (plaid shirt) was a worker in the Depository: we see him up on the sixth floor in the white t-shirt he'd been wearing... elsewhere at the time of the motorcade


5. Both Mr Lovelady and 'Mr Lovelady' were brought down to City Hall to give statements, but...
5a. 'Mr Lovelady' was there in the squadroom when Mr Oswald was brought in
5b. Mr Lovelady was not.

Now!

You-------------being smart people------------will roll your eyes and say:

'But if this 'other Lovelady' is not Billy Lovelady, then who the heck is he? With Jack Dougherty ruled out, you're all out of candidates!'

Bien au contraire!

There are in fact two other candidates for 'Mr Lovelady':

-------Mr Franklin Kaiser
-------Mr Fred Kaiser, Jr. (white, male, 24 years old)

Messrs. Kaiser and Kaiser were brothers

-----------------One of them claimed to have been getting his teeth done at Baylor Dental Clinic the day of the assassination, yet the Depository payroll shows him having worked a full day that day
-----------------The other claimed to have quit his job at the Depository the day before the assassination.

If I am right, then Mr Lovelady's vacillating story about the shirt, and his terror of being photographed in public, came down to one thing:

He was covering for one of the Kaiser brothers.

Is this none other than the sixth-floor shooter seen by Mr Brennan, Mr Fischer, Mr Edwards and Mr Euins?:


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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2019, 10:38:21 AM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2019, 02:17:35 PM »
I am proposing that the first big visual secret which Mr Billy Nolan Lovelady was trying desperately to keep after the assassination was that, as of 11/22/63, he was bald as a coot on the top of his head:

This is what the Wiegman film clearly shows us:



It's what the earliest wirephoto versions of the Altgens photo tell us:





And, if we look closely, it's what the later public version also shows us:



 Thumb1:

Offline Patrick Jackson

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2019, 04:16:51 PM »
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Hmm, not so sure about that, Mr Jackson. Do we have a photo of Mr White from ca. 1963?

Not many photos available. None of them is face left side.

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2019, 04:16:51 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2019, 06:06:41 PM »
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Friends, I got it wrong on Mr Dougherty. Hands up, and thanks again to Messrs Scully and Crow for setting me right!  Thumb1:

But!

I am still not convinced that Mr Lovelady is the man in the plaid shirt on 22 November.

It seems to me we might possibly be dealing with 2 different men here:

1. The Real Mr Billy Nolan Lovelady (a.k.a. Almost-Completely-Bald-On-Top Lovelady) in short-sleeved shirt with vertical red and white stripes
------Wiegman
------Altgens [I'll come to this!]
------later seen in the photo sneaked of him in 1964:



2. Not-So-Bald-On-Top 'Lovelady' (though with a large bald spot on crown) in Red Plaid Shirt
-------DPD squadroom footage
-------Hughes
-------Martin


I would like to propose-----------as a tentative theory------------the following:

1. Mr Lovelady is the 'Doorway Man' in Altgens
1a. He was wearing the short-sleeved red/white striped shirt

2. Another man looking somewhat like Mr Lovelady (and hence somewhat like someone else) was... elsewhere at the time of the motorcade
2a. He had a prominent bald spot and was, at the time of the motorcade, wearing only a white tshirt

3. After the assassination...
3a. Mr Lovelady went back into the building and stayed there until being brought down to City Hall
3b. 'Mr Lovelady' (who had been caught by Officer Baker "walking away from the stairs" on "the third or fourth floor" but vouched for as an employee by Mr Truly) stood out on the steps, smoking... he was now wearing a red plaid shirt

4. 'Mr Lovelady' (plaid shirt) was a worker in the Depository: we see him up on the sixth floor in the white t-shirt he'd been wearing... elsewhere at the time of the motorcade


5. Both Mr Lovelady and 'Mr Lovelady' were brought down to City Hall to give statements, but...
5a. 'Mr Lovelady' was there in the squadroom when Mr Oswald was brought in
5b. Mr Lovelady was not.

Now!

You-------------being smart people------------will roll your eyes and say:

'But if this 'other Lovelady' is not Billy Lovelady, then who the heck is he? With Jack Dougherty ruled out, you're all out of candidates!'

Bien au contraire!

There are in fact two other candidates for 'Mr Lovelady':

-------Mr Franklin Kaiser
-------Mr Fred Kaiser, Jr. (white, male, 24 years old)

Messrs. Kaiser and Kaiser were brothers

-----------------One of them claimed to have been getting his teeth done at Baylor Dental Clinic the day of the assassination, yet the Depository payroll shows him having worked a full day that day
-----------------The other claimed to have quit his job at the Depository the day before the assassination.

If I am right, then Mr Lovelady's vacillating story about the shirt, and his terror of being photographed in public, came down to one thing:

He was covering for one of the Kaiser brothers.

Is this none other than the sixth-floor shooter seen by Mr Brennan, Mr Fischer, Mr Edwards and Mr Euins?:



The big husky fellow on the sixth floor is not wearing only a White T shirt....He is wearing a khaki colored shirt over the white T shirt....



Recall that Howard Brennan said the man that he'd seen was dressed in khaki colored clothing.....

'Mr Lovelady' (plaid shirt) was a worker in the Depository: we see him up on the sixth floor in the white t-shirt he'd been wearing... elsewhere at the time of the motorcade

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2019, 06:35:03 PM »
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There are in fact two other candidates for 'Mr Lovelady':

-------Mr Franklin Kaiser
-------Mr Fred Kaiser, Jr. (white, male, 24 years old)

Messrs. Kaiser and Kaiser were brothers

-----------------One of them claimed to have been getting his teeth done at Baylor Dental Clinic the day of the assassination, yet the Depository payroll shows him having worked a full day that day
-----------------The other claimed to have quit his job at the Depository the day before the assassination.

From Mr Jerry Rose, The Third Decade:



Mr Truly saw to it that Mr Franklin Kaiser was not fingerprinted:


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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2019, 06:35:03 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2019, 08:15:40 PM »
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The big husky fellow on the sixth floor is not wearing only a White T shirt....He is wearing a khaki colored shirt over the white T shirt....

Recall that Howard Brennan said the man that he'd seen was dressed in khaki colored clothing.....



I'm struggling to see a shirt collar, but yes----this may be a white tee shirt under a shirt that is (to use Mr Brennan's words) "khaki"/"on the dingy side [of white]"...
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 08:16:14 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2019, 11:36:18 PM »
Now!

From Detective Marvin Johnson's report on his duties on 11/22/63:

?While in the office from 3:00 pm until 2:00 am I answered the phone and took an affidavit from Patrolman M. L. Baker [?] On about the 4th floor Officer Baker apprehended a man that was walking away from the stairway on that floor. Officer Baker started to search the man, but the building manager stated that the man was an employee of the company and was known to him. Officer Baker released the man and continued his search of the building. Officer Baker later identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man he had seen on the 4th floor of the Texas School Depository.?

At the end of the report, Det. Johnson returns to the Baker theme:

?When Patrolman M. L. Baker identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man that he stopped in the Texas School Book Depository Building, Patrolman Baker was in the Homicide Bureau giving an affidavit and Oswald was brought into the room to talk to some Secret Service man. When Baker saw Oswald he stated, ?That is the man I stopped on the 4th floor of the School Book Depository?.?

If
a) ---------------------------- we were to accept this as honest and accurate recall from Det. Johnson
and
b) ---------------------------- Mr Plaid Shirt Not-Bald-On-Top-But-With-Large-Bald-Spot was not Mr Lovelady but a different employee,
then it becomes plausible that Officer Baker, seeing Mr Oswald brought in to the Homicide Office, became honestly convinced that this was the man he'd stopped by the stairway on about the 4th floor.

Soon, of course, he would be pressurised into jumping aboard the Lunchroom Bandwagon. Between his affidavit and his helpful reconstructions for the Oswald-Acted-Alone WC he went remarkably silent...

(Note: Det. Johnson recalls a detail not in the affidavit ["Officer Baker started to search the man"] but there is a complete lack of any supplement by way of 2nd fl lunchroom nonsense [one floor up! glimpse through a small window! opened a door!]...)

 Thumb1:

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2019, 11:36:18 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2019, 04:23:43 PM »
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Now!

From Detective Marvin Johnson's report on his duties on 11/22/63:

?While in the office from 3:00 pm until 2:00 am I answered the phone and took an affidavit from Patrolman M. L. Baker [?] On about the 4th floor Officer Baker apprehended a man that was walking away from the stairway on that floor. Officer Baker started to search the man, but the building manager stated that the man was an employee of the company and was known to him. Officer Baker released the man and continued his search of the building. Officer Baker later identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man he had seen on the 4th floor of the Texas School Depository.?

At the end of the report, Det. Johnson returns to the Baker theme:

?When Patrolman M. L. Baker identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man that he stopped in the Texas School Book Depository Building, Patrolman Baker was in the Homicide Bureau giving an affidavit and Oswald was brought into the room to talk to some Secret Service man. When Baker saw Oswald he stated, ?That is the man I stopped on the 4th floor of the School Book Depository?.?

If
a) ---------------------------- we were to accept this as honest and accurate recall from Det. Johnson
and
b) ---------------------------- Mr Plaid Shirt Not-Bald-On-Top-But-With-Large-Bald-Spot was not Mr Lovelady but a different employee,
then it becomes plausible that Officer Baker, seeing Mr Oswald brought in to the Homicide Office, became honestly convinced that this was the man he'd stopped by the stairway on about the 4th floor.

Soon, of course, he would be pressurised into jumping aboard the Lunchroom Bandwagon. Between his affidavit and his helpful reconstructions for the Oswald-Acted-Alone WC he went remarkably silent...

(Note: Det. Johnson recalls a detail not in the affidavit ["Officer Baker started to search the man"] but there is a complete lack of any supplement by way of 2nd fl lunchroom nonsense [one floor up! glimpse through a small window! opened a door!]...)

 Thumb1:

?When Patrolman M. L. Baker identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man that he stopped in the Texas School Book Depository Building, Patrolman Baker was in the Homicide Bureau giving an affidavit and Oswald was brought into the room to talk to some Secret Service man. When Baker saw Oswald he stated, ?That is the man I stopped on the 4th floor of the School Book Depository?.?

So We have Lee Oswald right there on front of Marrion Baker as Baker was preparing a sworn affidavit in which he describes the man that he saw walking away from him near the elevator on the dimly lit  3rd or fourth floor......Baker has Lee right there in front of him and yet he describes the man he saw as being in his thirties,  weighing 165 pounds, with dark hair.....  That's NOT the description of Lee Oswald the man who was right there in front of him.     

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #47 on: April 22, 2019, 04:23:43 PM »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2019, 07:29:57 PM »
Friends, I've read from less-than-reputable sources that this photo of Mr Lovelady is from 1967:



Can anyone confirm this date? And does anyone know who took this photo?

Any information welcome, thank you!  Thumb1:

Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2019, 11:51:03 PM »
A Billy Lovelady doppelganger!  :D

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Re: Mr Billy Lovelady
« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2019, 11:51:03 PM »

 

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