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Author Topic: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.  (Read 23251 times)

Offline Simon Haggo

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2018, 05:46:27 PM »
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2 words - 'Paraffin' and 'test'!

There is the proof that LHO didn't fire any rifle that day - so assuming the rifle was 'owned' by him naturally infers conspiracy and patsy.

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2018, 05:46:27 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2018, 07:05:18 PM »
2 words - 'Paraffin' and 'test'!

There is the proof that LHO didn't fire any rifle that day - so assuming the rifle was 'owned' by him naturally infers conspiracy and patsy.

From the WC testimony of FBI SA Cortlandt Cunningham:

Mr. EISENBERG. A paraffin test was also run of Oswald's cheek and it produced a negative result.
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
Mr. EISENBERG. Do your tests, or do the tests which you ran, or your experience with revolvers and rifles, cast any light on the significance of a negative result being obtained on the right cheek?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; I personally wouldn't expect to find any residues on a person's right cheek after firing a rifle due to the fact that by the very principles and the manufacture and the action, the cartridge itself is sealed into the chamber by the bolt being closed behind it, and upon firing the case, the cartridge case expands into the chamber filling it up and sealing it off from the gases, so none will come back in your face, and so by its very nature, I would not expect to find residue on the right cheek of a shooter.
-------------------------------------
Mr. EISENBERG. Did you make a test with the exhibit, with the rifle, 139, to determine whether that left a powder residue on the right cheek?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. We did.

Mr. EISENBERG. Will you describe that test?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes; this time we ran a control. We were interested in running a control to find out just what the possibility was of getting a positive reaction after a person has thoroughly washed their hands. Mr. Killion used green soap and washed his hands, and we ran a control, both of the right cheek and of both hands.
We got many reactions on both the right hand and the left hand, and he had not fired a gun that day.
Mr. EISENBERG. This was before firing the rifle?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, sir. That was before firing the rifle. We got no reaction on the cheek.
Mr. EISENBERG. Also before firing the rifle?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes.
We fired the rifle. Mr. Killion fired it three times rapidly, using similar ammunition to that used in the assassination. We reran the tests both on the cheek and both hands. This time we got a negative reaction on all casts.
Mr. EISENBERG. So to recapitulate, after firing the rifle rapid-fire no residues of any nitrate were picked off Mr. Killion's cheek?
Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is correct, and there were none on the hands. We cleaned off the rifle again with dilute HCl. I loaded it for him. He held it in one of the cleaned areas and I pushed the clip in so he would not have to get his hands near the chamber--in other words, so he wouldn't pick up residues, from it, or from the action, or from the receiver. When we ran the casts, we got no reaction on either hand or on his cheek. On the controls, when he hadn't fired a gun all day, we got numerous reactions.


Simon, so much for your proof that LHO didn't fire any rifle that day.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2018, 07:07:45 PM by Tim Nickerson »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2018, 09:27:20 PM »
I'll see your Cortlandt Cunningham and raise you a Vincent Guinn.

"Today, Dr. Vincent P. Guinn called the FBI Laboratory and spoke to SA John F. Gallagher. He advised that since the assassination a large part of their efforts have been directed to the determination of powder residues taken from the hands and cheeks of individuals who have shot a rifle similar to the one reportedly owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. He advised that there appears that triple firing of this rifle will leave unambiguous positive tests every time on the paraffin casts. It further appears that washing the casts with diphenylbenzidine does remove one of the characteristic elements (barium) but such washings do not remove all of the other characteristic element in powder residues (antimony). Further be advised that the tests to date indicate that powder residues are deposited on both cheeks of the shooter after the rifle is fired either one time or three times. It appears, he added, that these results can be obtained even if the paraffin casts are made 2 1/2 hours after shooting the rifle providing that the skin of the shooter has not been washed in the meantime."

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2018, 09:27:20 PM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2018, 12:05:15 AM »
I'll see your Cortlandt Cunningham and raise you a Vincent Guinn.

"Today, Dr. Vincent P. Guinn called the FBI Laboratory and spoke to SA John F. Gallagher. He advised that since the assassination a large part of their efforts have been directed to the determination of powder residues taken from the hands and cheeks of individuals who have shot a rifle similar to the one reportedly owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. He advised that there appears that triple firing of this rifle will leave unambiguous positive tests every time on the paraffin casts. It further appears that washing the casts with diphenylbenzidine does remove one of the characteristic elements (barium) but such washings do not remove all of the other characteristic element in powder residues (antimony). Further be advised that the tests to date indicate that powder residues are deposited on both cheeks of the shooter after the rifle is fired either one time or three times. It appears, he added, that these results can be obtained even if the paraffin casts are made 2 1/2 hours after shooting the rifle providing that the skin of the shooter has not been washed in the meantime."

 
"We fired the rifle[CE-139]. Mr. Killion fired it [CE-139] three times rapidly, using similar ammunition to that used in the assassination. We reran the tests both on the cheek and both hands. This time we got a negative reaction on all casts." 

                                                                               VS

"powder residues taken from the hands and cheeks of individuals who have shot a rifle similar to the one reportedly owned by Lee Harvey Oswald."


How could you possibly conclude that the latter even matches the former, let alone that it raises it?

 


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2018, 01:22:44 AM »
Nitrate test vs NAA.....apples and oranges.

The paraffin/nitrate test was known to be worthless since the 1930's. It was usually used to try and obtain a confession from unknowing suspects.

The NAA analysis of Oswald's cheek cast gave "interesting" results.....

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2018, 01:22:44 AM »


Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2018, 01:48:57 AM »
Nitrate test vs NAA.....apples and oranges.

True. But why even mention that here?

Quote
The NAA analysis of Oswald's cheek cast gave "interesting" results.....

Hmmm....I don't recall the results being all that interesting.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2018, 02:33:29 AM »
True. But why even mention that here?


Thought it easier for those that didn?t know rather than having to plough through tortuous WC testimony.


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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2018, 02:33:29 AM »


Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Bugliosi's 53 pieces of evidence. And WCR link.
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2018, 01:52:20 PM »
"Is it possible to fire a bolt-action rifle and not get any traces of nitrate on your cheek?"

http://www.patspeer.com/chapter4e%3Acastsofcontention
Pat Speer
Chapter 4d: Casts of Contention
What we're not supposed to know


~snip~

The next morning, on 11-23-63, Dr. M.S  Mason and Louie Anderson analyze the paraffin casts of Oswald?s cheek (Exhibit #1), left hand (Exhibit #2), and right hand (Exhibit #3) created by Detective Barnes. The request form for this test, found in the Dallas Archives, records the time of the request as 11:05 A.M. The results read as follows: ?No nitrates are found on Exhibit #1. Nitrate patterns consistent with the suspect having discharged a firearm were present on Exhibits #2 and 3. The pattern on Exhibit #3 is typical of the patterns produced in firing
a revolver.? As Oswald is reported to have handled his revolver in the movie theater these results do little to establish that he?d fired a rifle at the President. More clearly, the positive result on Oswald's hands suggests that the elapsed time since the shooting was not the cause of the negative result on Oswald's cheek, and that one might reasonably suspect he did not fire the shots that killed the President. But does the Dallas Police Department admit to itself or the media that there may be suspects still at large?


~snip~

On 2-27, Dr. Vincent Guinn of General Atomic, whose early offers of help had been rebuffed by the FBI, but who'd later been contacted by the AEC, returns to center stage. A Jevons to Conrad memo relates: "Today, Dr. Vincent P. Guinn called the FBI Laboratory and spoke to SA John F. Gallagher. He advised that since the assassination a large part of their efforts have been directed to the determination of powder residues taken from the hands and cheeks of
individuals who have shot a rifle similar to the one reportedly owned by Lee Harvey Oswald. He advised that there appears that triple firing of this rifle will leave unambiguous positive tests every time on the paraffin casts.
It further appears that washing the casts with diphenylbenzidine does remove one of the characteristic elements (barium) but such washings do not remove all of the other characteristic element in powder residues (antimony).
Further be advised that the tests to date indicate that powder residues are deposited on both cheeks of the shooter after the rifle is fired either one time or three times. It appears, he added, that these results can be obtained even if the paraffin casts are made 2 1/2 hours after shooting the rifle providing that the skin of the shooter has not been washed in the meantime.  He inquired if any information could be furnished him relating to the actual casts from
Oswald. He stated he read about those casts in the newspapers but has no way to confirm the stories. SA Gallagher advised he was not at liberty to discuss this matter. Dr. Guinn asked who in Dallas might be knowledgeable on this subject. He was advised that he could not be given any information relative to these casts at this time."


~snip~