Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Collaborative Timeline Project  (Read 568 times)

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Collaborative Timeline Project
« on: April 12, 2019, 09:11:19 AM »
In an effort to stimulate a more collegiate atmosphere I would like to propose a project that members from all sides can meaningfully contribute.

I suggest we create a timeline (as accurate as possible) for the key movements/events from the time of the assassination until Oswald is charged with Kennedy’s murder.

In order to appear in the timeline/chronology your proposal will need some for of documented substantiation. It may be a specific time or to have occurred between known events.

I am confident the collective intelligence of all members can produce a document of substance and significance. I know the exact time of Tippit's shooting will be contentious but for some we might have to agree to disagree to make any progress.

12.30pm (approximately). JFK and JBC shot in Dealey Plaza.

12.31pm. Decker calls from Car 1, "Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there.""

12.33. Officer Barnett arrives back at front entrance of TSBD after briefly checking rear and fire escape on Houston.

12.34. Officer Haygood was approached by James Tague (hit during the shooting) and a witness who identified the TSBD as the source. "I just talked to a guy up here who was standing close to it and the best he could tell it came from the Texas School Book Depository Building here with that Hertz Renting sign on top."
Inspector Sawyer arrives at front of TSBD in his car and talks to officers.
Motorcade lead car arrives at Parkland (Lawson).
Sawyer takes two officers and is accompanied by a male TSBD employee (unknown) to the 4th floor via the passenger elevator.

12.36pm. Sgt.Harkness reports "I have a witness that says that it came from the 5th floor of the Texas Book Depository Store." The witness was Amos Ewins. Euins goes east in the three-wheeler to the front of the TSBD. He placed Ewins in Sawyer's car and went to the rear of the building.

12.39pm. Harkness reports to Sawyer who had returned to the front of the TSBD by this time.

12.43pm. Sorrels leaves Parkland in a car with Lumpkin, Turner and Senkel after watching JFK taken into Parkland ED .

12.45pm. From Dispatcher "Attention all squads, the suspect in the shooting at Elm and Houston is supposed to be an unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build, armed with what is thought to be a 30-30 rifle, - repeat, unknown white male, approximately 30, 165 pounds, slender build. No further description at this time or information"

Dispatcher (Murray Jackson) on Channel 1. "87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area."    78 (Tippit)   "I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View". 87 (Nelson) "87's going north on Marsalis at R.L. Thornton."

Fritz talks to Curry at Parkland and leaves for TSBD with Sims and Boyd.

12.47pm. Dispatcher Channel 1. "Signal 19, involving the President. Suspect: white male, thirty, slender build, five feet ten inches, one hundred sixty-five pounds, believed to have used 30 caliber rifle. Believed to be in the old School Book Depository, Elm and Houston, at this time."

12.52pm. 87 (Nelson)out down here (TSBD).

12.55pm. Sorrels arrives at TSBD and enters building by rear entrance. Talks to man at loading bay door and moves to front entrance. Asks Truly to prepare manifest of all employees names and addresses. Talks to Howard Brennan at entrance.

12.58pm. Fritz, Sims and Boyd arrive at the TSBD.

1.06pm. Mooney discovers shells and remnants of chicken lunch in the SE 6th floor window of the TSBD. Shortly after calls down to Fritz and Decker on the street below. Gerald Hill, Roger Craig and Officers,McCurdy, Walters and Vickery observe the SN shortly after.

1.07pm. Hill calls down to the street below for the crime lab.

1.09? Hill meets Fritz coming up on the elevator and informs him of the discovery on the 6th floor.

1.12pm. Fritz, Sims and Boyd arrive at the SN.
Hill meets Day on his way into the TSBD, then reports to Sawyer.
The fire truck arrives.
Owens arrives and reports to Sawyer at the TSBD entrance.

1.13pm Montgomery and Johnson arrvive at the SN.

1.15pm. Day and Studebaker arrive at the SN.

1.22pm. Boone finds the rifle.

1.30(?) Fritz orders Senkel to collect all those who worked on the 6th floor TSBD and take them to City Hall to provide statements.

1.50pm. Williams, Arce, Shelley, Lovelady and Dougherty arrive at City Hall to provide statements.

2.04pm. JFK hearse departs Parkland (Lawson).

2.15pm. JFK hearse arrives at Love Field (Lawson).

2.42pm (I think). Oswald first identified by name on radio or television as suspect.

2.47pm. AF1 departs Love Field (Lawson).

2.50pm(?) Fritz sends Senkel, Potts and Cunningham to 1026 N Beckley roominghouse.

3.00pm. Montgomery and Johnson leave the TSBD with the bag CE 142, chicken lunch remnants and empty Viceroy cigarette packet.

Potts, Senkel and Cunningham arrive at 1026 N Beckley and talk with Mrs Roberts, Mr and Mrs Johnson.

3.33pm. Oswald’s picture shown on TV.
« Last Edit: Today at 05:36:49 AM by Colin Crow »

JFK Assassination Forum

Collaborative Timeline Project
« on: April 12, 2019, 09:11:19 AM »


Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 07:04:03 AM »
What do people think about the time for Fritz's arrival in the SN? I am thinking it must have been around 1.13 to 1.15. Also I believe another senior officer was at the SN before Fritz. Was it Lumpkin?

Offline Tom Scully

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 09:56:25 AM »
What do people think about the time for Fritz's arrival in the SN? I am thinking it must have been around 1.13 to 1.15. Also I believe another senior officer was at the SN before Fritz. Was it Lumpkin?

I'm listening, please go on.

Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/truly1.htm

...Mr. TRULY......I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys.
So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there.
First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell--I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no.
Mr. BELIN. When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?
Mr. TRULY. Lee Oswald. I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no.
So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not. He said, "What do you think"? And I got to thinking. He said, "Well, we better do it anyway." It was so quick after that.
So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy's name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving.
Mr. BELIN. Did you have any address for him in Dallas, or did you just have an address in Irving?
Mr. TRULY. Just the address in Irving. I knew nothing of this Dallas address. I didn't know he was living away from his family.
Mr. BELIN. Now, would that be the address and the description as shown on this application, Exhibit 496?
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you ask for the name and addresses of any other employees who might have been missing?
Mr. TRULY. No, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Why didn't you ask for any other employees?
Mr. TRULY. That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you do after you got that information?
Mr. TRULY. Chief Lumpkin of the Dallas Police Department was standing a few feet from me. I told Chief Lumpkin that I had a boy missing over here "I don't know whether it amounts to anything or not." And I gave him his description. And he says, "Just a moment. We will go tell Captain Fritz."
Mr. BELIN. All right. And then what happened?
Mr. TRULY. So Chief Lumpkin had several officers there that he was talking to, and I assumed that he gave him some instructions of some nature I didn't hear it. And then he turned to me and says, "Now we will go upstairs".
So we got on one of the elevators, I don't know which, and rode up to the sixth floor. I didn't know Captain Fritz was on the sixth floor. And he was over in the northwest corner of the building.
Mr. BELIN. By the stairs there?
Mr. TRULY. Yes; by the stairs. ...

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 09:56:25 AM »


Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 11:45:08 AM »
Might be my faulty memory Tom. I just read Mooney and Hill's testimony.....nothing to support me there. Maybe it was the reference you posted about Truly informing Lumpkin before Fritz about Oswald's absence that I got confused by.

Online Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2760
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 03:06:41 PM »
What do people think about the time for Fritz's arrival in the SN? I am thinking it must have been around 1.13 to 1.15. Also I believe another senior officer was at the SN before Fritz. Was it Lumpkin?

 Detective Gerald Hill was there in the SN ( Smoker's Nook)  before Fritz arrived....  Mooney found the spent shells at 1:06.....  Hill called down to send up the Crime scene documentation team ( Day and Studebaker) at about 1:10....  Fritz arrived a few minutes later..... at about 1:15.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 03:06:41 PM »


Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2019, 04:03:34 PM »
Detective Gerald Hill was there in the SN ( Smoker's Nook)  before Fritz arrived....  Mooney found the spent shells at 1:06.....  Hill called down to send up the Crime scene documentation team ( Day and Studebaker) at about 1:10....  Fritz arrived a few minutes later..... at about 1:15.

Thanks Walt. I know Mooney called down to Fritz on the street below after finding the shells. A few officers were present early. Hill, as you mentioned, and Walters, Vickery and Craig. Fritz arrived with Sims and Boyd. Then Montgomery and Johnson who guarded the SN while the attention was on the rifle. Day and Studebaker arrived a few minutes before the rifle was found.

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 03:56:46 AM »
I believe Decker made this call from car 1 about 12.31

"Have my office move all available men out of my office into the railroad yard to try to determine what happened in there and hold everything secure until Homicide and other investigators should get there."

at 12.36. 260 (Harkness?) makes this call

"Witness (Ewins) says shots came from fifth floor, Texas Book Depository Store and Houston and Elm. I have him with me now and we are sealing off the building."

« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 05:57:03 AM by Colin Crow »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 03:56:46 AM »


Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 04:54:54 AM »
Officer Haygood.......had been on a motorcycle behind Baker in the motorcade. He dropped his bike on Elm and initially went to the rail yards. He returned and was approached by James Tague (hit during the shooting) and a witness who identified the TSBD as the source. This was just after 12.34.

Mr. HAYGOOD. One Stated that he had seen the President when the first shot was fired, and that he definitely was hit.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say where the shot came from?
Mr. HAYGOOD. And I asked him about where the shots came from, and he stated that he didn't know, that he was looking at him when the first shot was fired, and that he slumped. And when the second shot was fired, he went completely out of sight.
Mr. BELIN. You talked to any other witnesses there?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes. There was another one came up who was located, at the time he stated, on the south side of Elm Street back toward the triple underpass. Back, well, it would be north of the underpass there, and said he had gotten hit by a piece of concrete or something, and he did have a slight cut on his right cheek, upper portion of his cheek just to the right of his nose.
Mr. BELIN. Would he have been to the front or to the back of the Presidential car at the time of the shot?
Mr. HAYGOOD. I don't know what you mean to the front or the back.
Mr. BELIN. When he was standing, was he to the west or to the east of the President's car at the time of the shooting?
Mr. HAYGOOD. He would be to the south of it and then west.
Mr. BELIN. Southwest of it?
Mr. HAYGOOD. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Talk to anyone else?
Mr. HAYGOOD. And at that time, approximately, well, I was talking to him at the time this other man came up and told me that he didn't know what it was about, but he was quite sure the shot had come from this building there which he pointed out to be the Texas School Book Depository Building.

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 07:14:38 AM »
Mr. BELIN. Do you feel that you heard in your car some reference to the Texas School Book Depository building?
Mr. SAWYER. I do.
Mr. BELIN. Would it be fair for me to assume then that you had not at least completely left your car by 12:34 p.m?
Mr. SAWYER. Correct.
Mr. BELIN. Then when you got to the Texas School Book Depository, well, you got out of the car and talked to some people or to some officers?
Mr. SAWYER. Officers.

Looks like Sawyer arrived about 12.34.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 07:14:38 AM »


Offline Tom Scully

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 369
Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 09:30:23 AM »
Not sure if this is specific enough to be helpful.

http://jfk.hood.edu/….   Page 3, last paragraph

Cites for Decker arriving before Fritz, after Mooney found the hulls, before the rifle was found at 1:22.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 09:31:27 AM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Collaborative Timeline Project
« Reply #9 on: April 16, 2019, 09:30:23 AM »