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Author Topic: Assassination Witnesses Never Called to give Testimony at the Warren Commission  (Read 3441 times)

Offline Jack Nessan

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Z 349 he's kind of hard to miss.
Was about to press the shutter when the last shot hit the president.
Hit by splatter.
Prefocused to 15 ft. Half the width of the street.

There were two head shots.
Three hits in total.
All from the rear.

 

Mr. LIEBELER - Could you tell us approximately how many shots there were between the first and the last shot--as you well know--there were supposed to have been three shots, but how many shots did you hear?
Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I wouldn't want to say--I don't want to guess, because facts are so important on something like this. I am inclined to feel like that there were not as many as I have heard people say. I think it's of a smaller denomination, a smaller number, but I cannot--I can really only vouch for the two. Now, I know that there was at least one shot in between.
Mr. LIEBELER - At least one?
Mr. ALTGENS - I would say that--I know there was one in between. It is possible there might have been another one I don't really know, but two, I can really account for.
Mr. LIEBELER - And that's the first one and the last one?
Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir.

In his AP News Bulletin, Altgens stated there was only two shots.

"The motorcade was moving along in routine fashion until there was a noise like fireworks popping, I snapped a picture of the motorcade at just about that time. Still unaware of what was happening.
 I cranked my camera for another shot. The procession still moved along slowly. Then came the second burst of noise
There was a burst of noise –the second one I had heard ----and pieces of flesh appeared to fly from the president Kennedy’s car. Blood covered the whole left side of his head. Mrs Kennedy saw what had happened to her husband . She grabbed him exclaiming “Oh No”
The cars driver realized what had happened almost if by reflex speeded up toward the Stemmons Expressway. There seem to be utter confusion. " 

Offline Peter Kleinschmidt

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Z 349 he's kind of hard to miss.
Was about to press the shutter when the last shot hit the president.
Hit by splatter.
Prefocused to 15 ft. Half the width of the street.

There were two head shots.
Three hits in total.
All from the rear.

Do you believe Altgens is or is not responsible for the 2 photos taken of the motorcade after it turned onto Houston street?

Online John Tonkovich

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Do you believe Altgens is or is not responsible for the 2 photos taken of the motorcade after it turned onto Houston street?
Which "two photos"? Altgens 6, is, of course, his photo. Which other photo?

Addendum: Altgens 5 and 6 would be ..Altgens'.

Let's remain on topic. Assassination witness. Reluctantly called, and ignored. Release of Zapruder highlights his importance. And contradicts WC.
While we're there, notice man to our right, Altgens' left, diving to the ground, reacting to what?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 05:07:55 PM by John Tonkovich »

Offline Jerry Organ

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Which "two photos"? Altgens 6, is, of course, his photo. Which other photo?

Addendum: Altgens 5 and 6 would be ..Altgens'.

I think he's getting at the photo of the limousine with the first floor of the Depository in the back ground, which was followed by the photo of the limousine with the Underpass beyond.

Quote
Let's remain on topic. Assassination witness. Reluctantly called, and ignored.

Where does it say the WC was reluctant to call Altgens?

Quote

Release of Zapruder highlights his importance. And contradicts WC.


You think a pre-focus of 15 feet meant that he heard a shot which the limousine was that distance from him? Geeze.

Quote
While we're there, notice man to our right, Altgens' left, diving to the ground, reacting to what?

Malcolm Summers ( had no idea where shots were coming from and was just following the herd):

    "Yesterday, November 23, 1963, I was standing on the terrace of the small park on Elm Street
     to watch the President's motorcade. The President's car had just come up in front of me when
     I heard a shot and saw the President slump down in the car and heard Mrs. Kennedy say,
     "Oh, no," then a second shot and then I hit the ground as I realized these were shots. Then all
     of the people started running up the terrace away from the President's car and I got up and
     started running also, not realizing what had happened. In just a few moments the President's
     car sped off and everyone was just running around towards the railroad tracks and I knew
     that they had somebody trapped up there. I imagine I stayed there 15 or 20 minutes and then
     went over on Houston Street to where I had my truck parked."

He evidently thought no one "trapped up there" was going to be found.

Offline Jack Nessan

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I think he's getting at the photo of the limousine with the first floor of the Depository in the back ground, which was followed by the photo of the limousine with the Underpass beyond.

Where does it say the WC was reluctant to call Altgens?

You think a pre-focus of 15 feet meant that he heard a shot which the limousine was that distance from him? Geeze.

Malcolm Summers ( had no idea where shots were coming from and was just following the herd):

    "Yesterday, November 23, 1963, I was standing on the terrace of the small park on Elm Street
     to watch the President's motorcade. The President's car had just come up in front of me when
     I heard a shot and saw the President slump down in the car and heard Mrs. Kennedy say,
     "Oh, no," then a second shot and then I hit the ground as I realized these were shots. Then all
     of the people started running up the terrace away from the President's car and I got up and
     started running also, not realizing what had happened. In just a few moments the President's
     car sped off and everyone was just running around towards the railroad tracks and I knew
     that they had somebody trapped up there. I imagine I stayed there 15 or 20 minutes and then
     went over on Houston Street to where I had my truck parked."

He evidently thought no one "trapped up there" was going to be found.


"I heard a shot and saw the President slump down"

"then a second shot and then I hit the ground as I realized these were shots"


The first shot made JFK slump. The 5+ second clock starts ticking at Z223. Again an eyewitness right by the car states there was only two shots.

Offline Jerry Organ

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IMO Having the autopsy doctors testify without the autopsy photos, x-rays etc. was critical for the coverup and more essential to it's continuation than the omission of testimony from witnesses we basically now know the content of.

The photos of the entrance wound in the back of JFK's skull, slightly above and slightly to the right of the EOP, requested by the autopsy doctors at autopsy, were noticed missing by Dr. Fink in a January 1967 review of the materials in the Archive.

Very convenient when LBJ's Clark Panel '67 report moved that entrance wound 4 inches up on JFK's skull in response to critics pointing out a EOP wound didn't jibe with a shot from the 6th floor SE corner of the TSBD.

"in response to critics pointing out a EOP wound didn't jibe with a shot from the 6th floor SE corner of the TSBD"

Lane and Meagher didn't make no such claim. They maintained there was no skull entry wound at the rear of the skull, contending it entered the front of the skull. They implied the autopsy surgeons were incompetent and part of a cover-up.

Then the Clark Panel found the four-inch discrepancy and all the shade about Humes and Boswell disappeared. They were suddenly competent pathologists who were very accurate in locating the rear entry wound. The Clark Panel, and later the HSCA Forensic Panel, were inaccurate or the autopsy materials substituted or forged.

It doesn't work to any advantage to dishonestly "move" the skull entry wound upwards. Studivan, who says the shot came from the SN window, believes the lower entry point is accurate and that the bullet deflected upward to exit where it is seen to in the Zapruder film.

Quote
A photo of the inside of JFK's right lung was also noticed missing from the Archive by the Clark Panel. That photo could have shown the direction and path of the wound to JFK's back and throat.

Very convenient also since Jerry Ford had changed the WCR final draft describing it's location from entering JFK's back to entering the back of his neck.

"Above the shoulder" was more ambiguous than "back of the base of the neck," which reflected language expressed in the Autopsy Report. The Clark Panel and other review used language similar to Ford's.

Offline Peter Kleinschmidt

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Which "two photos"? Altgens 6, is, of course, his photo. Which other photo?

Addendum: Altgens 5 and 6 would be ..Altgens'.

Let's remain on topic. Assassination witness. Reluctantly called, and ignored. Release of Zapruder highlights his importance. And contradicts WC.
While we're there, notice man to our right, Altgens' left, diving to the ground, reacting to what?

It is important because if you see him in the Zapruder film how can he say he took the two photos Altg#4 Altg#5 when the motorcade is on Houston and then appear taking the #6 #7. He couldn't have run that far that quick. He is in the Bronson film by the position where #4 #5  on the Main & Houston corner. He is lying about something

Online John Tonkovich

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I think he's getting at the photo of the limousine with the first floor of the Depository in the back ground, which was followed by the photo of the limousine with the Underpass beyond.

Where does it say the WC was reluctant to call Altgens? Ce1407. It's in the first few paragraphs.

You think a pre-focus of 15 feet meant that he heard a shot which the limousine was that distance from him? Geeze. That's his testimony

Malcolm Summers ( had no idea where shots were coming from and was just following the herd):

    "Yesterday, November 23, 1963, I was standing on the terrace of the small park on Elm Street
     to watch the President's motorcade. The President's car had just come up in front of me when
     I heard a shot and saw the President slump down in the car and heard Mrs. Kennedy say,
     "Oh, no," then a second shot and then I hit the ground as I realized these were shots. Then all
     of the people started running up the terrace away from the President's car and I got up and
     started running also, not realizing what had happened. In just a few moments the President's
     car sped off and everyone was just running around towards the railroad tracks and I knew
     that they had somebody trapped up there. I imagine I stayed there 15 or 20 minutes and then
     went over on Houston Street to where I had my truck parked."

He evidently thought no one "trapped up there" was going to be found.

Is Malcolm the guy heading toward the ground? That's a rather telling action/reaction. I don't really care about anything else involving him. What, exactly, is he reacting to?


Offline Jerry Organ

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Is Malcolm the guy heading toward the ground? That's a rather telling action/reaction. I don't really care about anything else involving him. What, exactly, is he reacting to?

Bullets were being fired, a man had been hit in the head 40 or so feet from him, and he thought he (Summers) might be killed.

Online John Tonkovich

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Bullets were being fired, a man had been hit in the head 40 or so feet from him, and he thought he (Summers) might be killed.

Yeah, hearing the third shot about Z345ish.

Anyhow, back to Altgens. CE1407. Warren Commission  And the attempt to ignore him.

 

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