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Author Topic: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?  (Read 29158 times)

Online Richard Smith

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2019, 04:30:04 PM »
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Richard, why does Oswald have to be a lone nut and not a patsy?

There is no predetermined outcome here.  It is the evidence that dictates the conclusion to be drawn.  Just as the evidence dictates that John Wilkes Booth was part of a conspiracy. 

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2019, 04:30:04 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2019, 05:41:37 PM »
There is no predetermined outcome here.  It is the evidence that dictates the conclusion to be drawn.

In your case it?s your misrepresentation of the evidence that leads to your conclusion.

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2019, 06:26:53 PM »
Turns out, only one person owned and possessed the two different murder weapons in both cases to the exclusion of 699,999 other people in Dallas.

Now IF you could only PROVE beyond a shadow of doubt that Lee Oswald "Owned and possessed " the two different weapons and then PROVE beyond a shadow of doubt that they were fired by Lee Oswald on 11/22/63.....  You'd have a very good case..... Can you prove any part of your case?

The only evidence that conclusively would link the carcano to the murder of JFK is a pristine bullet which is generally rejected as evidence by discerning and intelligent people.

And the S&W revolver that appeared at the Texas Theater  is DEFINITELY not the gun that several eye witnesses saw in the hands of the killer at the Tippit murder scene.

Now please present something CREDIBLE....  I'd really like to believe you, but there is no evidence that will support your contention....

Dirty Harvey
 ;)

@Newbies:

Dirty Harvey
'Smith, Wesson... and Lee'

Dirty Harry
'Smith, Wesson... and me'

« Last Edit: October 03, 2019, 10:18:57 AM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #58 on: March 25, 2019, 06:26:53 PM »


Online Richard Smith

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2019, 07:56:07 PM »
Even if Lee could be unequivocally linked to the carcano....  I'm sure that carcano was not fired that day....It was hidden BEFORE the shooting and only a ignoramus would have tried to shoot the POTUS  with such a piece of junk.     And Lee was on the first floor at the time of the shooting.

I asked those who purport not to take issue with the bulk of the evidence a simple question.  Just whether they believe the documentation that links Oswald to the MC rifle is fake or genuine.  Nothing more or less.  Why is that so difficult to answer?  They could say it is genuine but for some unspecified reason don't believe it links Oswald to the rifle.  I'm not sure how they square that rationale, though, since if it is genuine then it shows Oswald ordering a rifle from Klein's under an alias associated with him and being sent a specific rifle (the one with same serial number as that found on the 6th floor of the TSBD -- Oswald's place of employment).   But that would be an answer even if it makes no apparent sense.  Or they could say it is all fake.  But dishonest posters contend it is somehow a loaded question to even answer whether they are contending whether the underlying documentation is genuine or fake.  Much less support their position.  They want to have it both ways.  Suggesting the evidence is suspect but never having to own up to the implications.  It's laughable in its intellectual dishonesty. 

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2019, 08:21:13 PM »
I asked those who purport not to take issue with the bulk of the evidence a simple question.  Just whether they believe the documentation that links Oswald to the MC rifle is fake or genuine.  Nothing more or less.  Why is that so difficult to answer?  They could say it is genuine but for some unspecified reason don't believe it links Oswald to the rifle.  I'm not sure how they square that rationale, though, since if it is genuine then it shows Oswald ordering a rifle from Klein's under an alias associated with him and being sent a specific rifle (the one with same serial number as that found on the 6th floor of the TSBD -- Oswald's place of employment).   But that would be an answer even if it makes no apparent sense.  Or they could say it is all fake.  But dishonest posters contend it is somehow a loaded question to even answer whether they are contending whether the underlying documentation is genuine or fake.  Much less support their position.  They want to have it both ways.  Suggesting the evidence is suspect but never having to own up to the implications.  It's laughable in its intellectual dishonesty.

The (literally) loaded answer was the rifle found to be sporting the Oswald print on the barrel portion under the stock, along with shirt fiber found on the butt plate that couldn't be dismissed as being from Oswald's shirt.

Suggesting the evidence is suspect but never having to own up to the implications
>>> It's the conspiracy-monger technique known as JAQing:
 
Just Asking Questions
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

Just asking questions (also known as JAQing off) is a way of attempting to make wild accusations acceptable (and hopefully not legally actionable) by framing them as questions rather than statements. It shifts the burden of proof to one's opponent; rather than laboriously having to prove that all politicians are reptoid scum, one can pull out one single odd piece of evidence and force the opponent to explain why the evidence is wrong.

The tactic is closely related to loaded questions or leading questions (which are usually employed when using it), Gish Gallops (when asking a huge number of rapid-fire questions without regard for the answers) and Argumentum ad nauseam (when asking the same question over and over in an attempt to overwhelm refutations).

It should be noted that accusing one's opponent of "just asking questions" is a common derailment tactic and a way of poisoning the well. Asking questions in and of itself is not invalid.

The subjective nature of this charge, and its consequent ripeness for abuse, means that deploying it can be a very inflammatory move. One side may put forward the accusation that the other side is cynically "just asking questions" and believe that they are acting in good faith, and the other side may equally strongly believe that they were asking genuine questions in good faith and the first person is the one acting in bad faith.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 08:27:50 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #60 on: March 25, 2019, 08:21:13 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2019, 08:25:18 PM »
I asked those who purport not to take issue with the bulk of the evidence a simple question.  Just whether they believe the documentation that links Oswald to the MC rifle is fake or genuine. 

Why don?t you be intellectually honest and stop referring to it as ?documentation that links Oswald to the rifle??

Quote
Nothing more or less.  Why is that so difficult to answer?  They could say it is genuine but for some unspecified reason don't believe it links Oswald to the rifle.  I'm not sure how they square that rationale, though, since if it is genuine then it shows Oswald ordering a rifle from Klein's under an alias associated with him and being sent a specific rifle (the one with same serial number as that found on the 6th floor of the TSBD -- Oswald's place of employment).   

That?s the whole point ? it doesn?t show anything of the kind.

This is like me asking you, ?do you believe the evidence showing that you beat your wife is fake or genuine??

If you really want an answer instead of cheap rhetorical posturing, then drop the loaded questions and just ask do you believe that X piece of evidence is fake or genuine?
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 08:30:17 PM by John Iacoletti »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2019, 08:29:03 PM »
The (literally) loaded answer was the rifle found to be sporting the Oswald print on the barrel portion under the stock, along with shirt fiber found on the butt plate that couldn't be dismissed as being from Oswald's shirt.

I think you mean the partial palm print that turned up a week later on an index card, and fibers that may or may not have come from Oswald?s shirt.

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2019, 08:29:03 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Why do some people believe in conspiracy theories?
« Reply #63 on: March 25, 2019, 08:43:44 PM »
I think you mean the partial palm print that turned up a week later on an index card, and fibers that may or may not have come from Oswald?s shirt.

Even worse; it's only an assumption that Oswald wore the same shirt he was arrested in at the TSBD that morning.