A straight line

[Tim Nickerson]

You seem to miss the point. Only ONE of the "ifs" needs to be true to negate the SBT. They ALL have to be false in order for the SBT to be possible. And then you would still need convincing evidence that it actually occurred or maybe some convincing proof of a missed shot.

They don't all have to be false in order for the  SBT to be possible. Nevertheless, they are all false. 

??They described what JFK did in response to the first shot. No uncertainty there. Why they would have to count the shots afterward?

Was Kennedy hit in the head by the second shot? Yes or no.

Since there were at least 5 seconds between JFK's reaction and the head shot, the last two were not "in rapid succession"as described by dozens of witnesses, if there was no shot in between. And in order to make the 1-2 spacing noticeably longer than 2-3 the first shot would have to be well before Zapruder started filming (the Max Holland conjecture). Good luck fitting that to any evidence.

If the spacing between the last two really was shorter than the first two then Holland's conjecture could be made to fit.

That puts Connally's right armpit in front of JFK's midline. Not enough. And that was the maximum range. He could have been 4 inches inboard of the president.

8.6 inches inboard is more than enough.

JFK's hands are seen and they are in the position that many witnesses described him assuming in response to the first shot. They are in a very different position than in z193.

https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=162&pos=106

JFK's hands cannot been seen in Z223.

[Tim Nickerson]

Are there free online PDF's of these books? I don't have the money to buy them.

Alice, you can download a Kindle version of "Case Closed" from Amazon for $7.71.

https://www.amazon.com/Case-Closed-Harvey-Oswald-Assassination/dp/1400034620

[Bill Chapman]

Then how did you come to your conclusions?

 

[Andrew Mason]

They don't all have to be false in order for the  SBT to be possible. Nevertheless, they are all false.

So let's make this clear. You are saying that:

1.  The witnesses (40+) who recalled that the last two shots were in rapid succession, noticeably closer than the first two, were all wrong and what they really heard was 1...2.....3  AND

2.  The witnesses who heard 3 shots and said JFK reacted to the first shot, including Dave Powers, TE Moore, Linda Willis, Nellie Connally, Bobby Hargis, George Hickey, Sam Kinney, Emory Roberts, Harold Norman, Gayle Newman,  and Cecil Ault, did not see what they said they saw; AND

3. The witnesses who said that the first shot was after z186/z191 were wrong even though not a single piece of evidence conflicts with their recollections. These witnesses include Hughes, Betzner, Linda Willis, Phil Willis, Mary Woodward, TE Moore, and motorcade witnesses in the VP car, VP security car as well as witnesses along Elm: Jean Newman, Billy Clay, Georgia Hendrix, Sue Dickerson, Dorothy Garner, Karan Hicks, Gloria Calvary, Karen Westbrook.

Was Kennedy hit in the head by the second shot? Yes or no.

No. The second shot nearly hit him in the head, according to George Hickey, but just lifted his hair on the right side.  One or two witnesses may have thought the second shot hit him in the head (eg. John Chism) but these witnesses were never cross-examined. 

If the spacing between the last two really was shorter than the first two then Holland's conjecture could be made to fit.

But not in "rapid succession" (eg. SA Hickey 18H762), "quick succession" (SA McIntyre 18H747), "very close together" (Robert Jackson 2H159, Lee Bowers 6H287), "pretty close together" (Luke Mooney 3H282), "rather close together" (B R Williams 3H175), "one and one-half seconds" - "a much shorter time" (Sen. Yarborough 7H439), "real close" (Clyde Haygood, 6H298), "very quickly" (James Crawford, 6H172).

And these witnesses all said that the difference in spacing was quite noticeable.  Many said it was about 2:1.  Even if it was just 1.5:1 (7.5 seconds to 5 seconds) that puts the first shot before the QM finished the turn, with the VP car just entering the intersection and the VP security car behind that on Houston.  (How could the occupants of those cars be so wrong - in the same way?)

8.6 inches inboard is more than enough.

The bullet was traveling from right to left at an angle of at least 9 degrees.  Over the 24 inches between JFK's throat and the plane of the back of the jump seat, the bullet would have travelled left an additional 3.8 inches. According to the HSCA the wound on JBC was 20 cm or 7.9 inches from his midline. If his midline was 8.6 inches left of JFK's midline, that puts his right armpit .7 inches left of JFK's midline.  It has to be another 3.1 inches farther left than that.  And that is assuming the maximum distance he could have been to the left of JFK, which is your best case scenario. ITEK actually said he was probably 6.4 inches left and could have been as little as 4.2 inches left.  That would make JBC too far right probably by 5.3 inches and possibly by as much as 7.5 inches.

JFK's hands cannot been seen in Z223.

Right. z224.

[Gary Craig]

Alice, you can waste your money if you choose, but the twenty-six volumes are online for free at:

http://www.historymatters.com

and here

MARY FERRELL FOUNDATION
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Main_Page.html

[John Iacoletti]

Then how did you come to your conclusions?

 

Your lack of an answer to that question speaks volumes.

[Tim Nickerson]

So let's make this clear. You are saying that:

1.  The witnesses (40+) who recalled that the last two shots were in rapid succession, noticeably closer than the first two, were all wrong and what they really heard was 1...2.....3  AND

I'm saying that the 40+ witnesses who recalled that the last two shots were closer than the first two were wrong. 54 other witnesses recalled differently.

2.  The witnesses who heard 3 shots and said JFK reacted to the first shot, including Dave Powers, TE Moore, Linda Willis, Nellie Connally, Bobby Hargis, George Hickey, Sam Kinney, Emory Roberts, Harold Norman, Gayle Newman,  and Cecil Ault, did not see what they said they saw; AND

Dave Powers just says that after the first shot the President moved to the left. That?s not much of a reaction. Moore said that all three shots were spaced at regular intervals. Nellie Connally said that there was less time between the first and the second than between the second and the third. Hargis couldn't recall more than two shots. Kinney said immediately after the second shot they stepped on the gas. They never stepped on the gas until after the third shot. His second shot was really the third shot. Initially, Roberts wasn't sure whether there were two or three shots fired. A week later, he thinks he recalls three shots but didn't know if kennedy was hit in the head by the second shot or by the third shot. Norman said that the shots were evenly spaced. He placed the first shot at the same time that Williams did, right about  when the President was smoothing back his hair. Gayle Newman placed the first two shots much closer together than the second and third shots. Cecil Ault said he saw the President slump after the second shot.

3. The witnesses who said that the first shot was after z186/z191 were wrong even though not a single piece of evidence conflicts with their recollections. These witnesses include Hughes, Betzner, Linda Willis, Phil Willis, Mary Woodward, TE Moore, and motorcade witnesses in the VP car, VP security car as well as witnesses along Elm: Jean Newman, Billy Clay, Georgia Hendrix, Sue Dickerson, Dorothy Garner, Karan Hicks, Gloria Calvary, Karen Westbrook.

Hughes never specified anything about the shots. Betzner is a two shot witness. The real first shot is missing from his account. Phil Willis  said that all three shots were evenly spaced. Mary Woodward said that the first shot missed. Max Holland interprets Moore's statement differently than you. He says that Moore's highway marker was to the east of the one you believe it to be. Jean Newman recalled hearing only two shots. Hendrix saw Kennedy slump on the second shot. Dickerson didn't specify when the first shot was fired. Neither did Dorothy Garner. The other three never said how many shots they heard.

No. The second shot nearly hit him in the head, according to George Hickey, but just lifted his hair on the right side.  One or two witnesses may have thought the second shot hit him in the head (eg. John Chism) but these witnesses were never cross-examined. 

Many of your witnesses were not cross examined.

But not in "rapid succession" (eg. SA Hickey 18H762), "quick succession" (SA McIntyre 18H747), "very close together" (Robert Jackson 2H159, Lee Bowers 6H287), "pretty close together" (Luke Mooney 3H282), "rather close together" (B R Williams 3H175), "one and one-half seconds" - "a much shorter time" (Sen. Yarborough 7H439), "real close" (Clyde Haygood, 6H298), "very quickly" (James Crawford, 6H172).

And these witnesses all said that the difference in spacing was quite noticeable.  Many said it was about 2:1.  Even if it was just 1.5:1 (7.5 seconds to 5 seconds) that puts the first shot before the QM finished the turn, with the VP car just entering the intersection and the VP security car behind that on Houston.  (How could the occupants of those cars be so wrong - in the same way?)

Rapid succession, quick succession, and very close together are all relative descriptions. They could mean two seconds , three, four or more.

The bullet was traveling from right to left at an angle of at least 9 degrees.  Over the 24 inches between JFK's throat and the plane of the back of the jump seat, the bullet would have travelled left an additional 3.8 inches. According to the HSCA the wound on JBC was 20 cm or 7.9 inches from his midline. If his midline was 8.6 inches left of JFK's midline, that puts his right armpit .7 inches left of JFK's midline.  It has to be another 3.1 inches farther left than that.  And that is assuming the maximum distance he could have been to the left of JFK, which is your best case scenario. ITEK actually said he was probably 6.4 inches left and could have been as little as 4.2 inches left.  That would make JBC too far right probably by 5.3 inches and possibly by as much as 7.5 inches.

Are you sure that the HSCA placed the wound on JBC 7.9 inches from his midline?  Baden's measurement was 6.5 inches from the midline. I thought that 7.5 inches would be about right. However, I think that I can still get the SBT to work with 7.9 inches from the midline.

Right. z224.

What are his hands doing at z224?

[Gary Craig]

I'm saying that the 40+ witnesses who recalled that the last two shots were closer than the first two were wrong. 54 other witnesses recalled differently.

Dave Powers just says that after the first shot the President moved to the left. That?s not much of a reaction. Moore said that all three shots were spaced at regular intervals. Nellie Connally said that there was less time between the first and the second than between the second and the third. Hargis couldn't recall more than two shots. Kinney said immediately after the second shot they stepped on the gas. They never stepped on the gas until after the third shot. His second shot was really the third shot. Initially, Roberts wasn't sure whether there were two or three shots fired. A week later, he thinks he recalls three shots but didn't know if kennedy was hit in the head by the second shot or by the third shot. Norman said that the shots were evenly spaced. He placed the first shot at the same time that Williams did, right about  when the President was smoothing back his hair. Gayle Newman placed the first two shots much closer together than the second and third shots. Cecil Ault said he saw the President slump after the second shot.

Hughes never specified anything about the shots. Betzner is a two shot witness. The real first shot is missing from his account. Phil Willis  said that all three shots were evenly spaced. Mary Woodward said that the first shot missed. Max Holland interprets Moore's statement differently than you. He says that Moore's highway marker was to the east of the one you believe it to be. Jean Newman recalled hearing only two shots. Hendrix saw Kennedy slump on the second shot. Dickerson didn't specify when the first shot was fired. Neither did Dorothy Garner. The other three never said how many shots they heard.


Many of your witnesses were not cross examined.

Rapid succession, quick succession, and very close together are all relative descriptions. They could mean two seconds , three, four or more.

Are you sure that the HSCA placed the wound on JBC 7.9 inches from his midline?  Baden's measurement was 6.5 inches from the midline. I thought that 7.5 inches would be about right. However, I think that I can still get the SBT to work with 7.9 inches from the midline.

What are his hands doing at z224?

"Dave Powers just says that after the first shot the President moved to the left. That?s not much of a reaction."

No!
Powers was directly behind the President in the follow up car.
After hearing the first shot, he saw JFK pull his hand towards his throat and fall over towards Jackie.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=77&v=Yl7a-50BHLE