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Author Topic: A straight line  (Read 39188 times)

Online Martin Weidmann

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #540 on: April 06, 2018, 10:21:56 PM »
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Show me where I said I could prove anything here. And tell us why you need people to prove something to you.

Why?

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It seems to me that you characters are the ones casting opinions around. If you have a problem with gravity, maybe read what Newton's and Einstein's opinions are on the subject.

Who are "you characters" and where did I say I have a problem with gravity?

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #541 on: April 06, 2018, 10:26:44 PM »
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How does it give JFK's orientation when he was struck by the single bullet?

Re-read my post and start thinking photogammetrically. ;)

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You're not making any sense at all.

Using an ortho-map overhead of Elm, draw a line from the SN to the limo at frame z224. What's that angle? Now take the supposed angle of the MB thru JFK and reconcile the 2.

Good luck with that!

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #541 on: April 06, 2018, 10:26:44 PM »

Online Bill Chapman

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #542 on: April 07, 2018, 12:21:27 AM »
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The bullet does not automatically start to rotate when it exits a human body. A bullet tumbles in response to interacting with a solid object such as bone that deflects its trajectory. It does not deflect appreciably when it transitions from one medium to another such as flesh to air or water to air, etc. It certainly doesn't rotate appreciably within a couple of feet of exiting the body.

Otherwise, a bullet follows a parabolic path like anything else under gravity. The mussel velocity defines the parabolic arc of a projectile, which is insignificant over a hundred feet and has nothing to do with a tumbling bullet.

Where did I address bullet tumble in my post? I'm questioning your use of a laser beam which of course is not affected by wind, air temperature, air density or gravity as is a bullet in flight. At that distance it might only be a barely noticeable drop (as I understand it, nevertheless one is talking fractions here. My research is talking 200-300 yards downrange and beyond.

I might be getting the wrong idea about what you say you are proving.

Re tumble, I understand Carcano rifling grabs that ammo near the front rather than the back, thereby providing a very stable bullet in flight.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 12:33:12 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #543 on: April 07, 2018, 12:44:06 AM »
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Re-read my post and start thinking photogammetrically. ;)

Nope. You're going to have to show it or explain it.

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Using an ortho-map overhead of Elm, draw a line from the SN to the limo at frame z224. What's that angle? Now take the supposed angle of the MB thru JFK and reconcile the 2.



I used the Robert West Survey of 1964. Measuring from the SN to the limo, I get a lateral angle of 9 degrees. I don't know what you mean by "reconcile the 2". What exactly is there to reconcile?

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #543 on: April 07, 2018, 12:44:06 AM »

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #544 on: April 08, 2018, 01:18:03 AM »
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Where did I address bullet tumble in my post? I'm questioning your use of a laser beam which of course is not affected by wind, air temperature, air density or gravity as is a bullet in flight. At that distance it might only be a barely noticeable drop (as I understand it, nevertheless one is talking fractions here. My research is talking 200-300 yards downrange and beyond.

I might be getting the wrong idea about what you say you are proving.

Re tumble, I understand Carcano rifling grabs that ammo near the front rather than the back, thereby providing a very stable bullet in flight.

The laser is only simulating the bullet's trajectory as it passes thru JFK and Connally. Once a bullet hits an object all bets are off. But you LNers want to think that the bullet managed to take a straight line trajectory thru JFK's body and somehow avoided his spine and ribs. You contend this because the bullet came out of a small hole in his throat which meant it wasn't tumbling. Then you contend it smashed thru Connally and ended up clean and unscathed on the wrong stretcher and you want us to believe it wasn't planted.

Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #545 on: April 08, 2018, 01:32:16 AM »
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Nope. You're going to have to show it or explain it.



I used the Robert West Survey of 1964. Measuring from the SN to the limo, I get a lateral angle of 9 degrees. I don't know what you mean by "reconcile the 2". What exactly is there to reconcile?

How do you know that survey map is to scale? Let's give it the benefit of the doubt. You need to determine where the limo was relative to the Z-film to sync with the shots. All that is a bit iffy, but I will give you the BOTD again and say your angles might be ok.

If so, then put the limo with occupants into the scene and line everything up with a shot 2 inches to the right of the spine at T1 and out the throat at C7, then into the right side of Connally, into his wrist, then his thigh then ending up on the wrong stretcher.

Use my laser experiment for a re-enactment for JFK and Connally and make me eat crow, I dare you!

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #545 on: April 08, 2018, 01:32:16 AM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #546 on: April 08, 2018, 02:18:54 AM »
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If so, then put the limo with occupants into the scene and line everything up with a shot 2 inches to the right of the spine at T1 and out the throat at C7,

Why should I do that? I already told you that the bullet entered above the level of T1.

 
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then into the right side of Connally,


I already did.

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into his wrist, then his thigh

You're making ridiculous requests. The bullet took a curved path through Connally. Who could possibly say exactly what that path was? Certainly not me,

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then ending up on the wrong stretcher.

What for? Why would I put it on the wrong stretcher?


Offline Jack Trojan

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #547 on: April 08, 2018, 04:02:01 AM »
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Why should I do that? I already told you that the bullet entered above the level of T1.

I already did.

You're making ridiculous requests. The bullet took a curved path through Connally. Who could possibly say exactly what that path was? Certainly not me,

What for? Why would I put it on the wrong stretcher?

Just throwing out pearls. :D

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #547 on: April 08, 2018, 04:02:01 AM »

Offline Tim Nickerson

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #548 on: April 08, 2018, 05:13:53 AM »
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Just throwing out pearls. :D

Yeah, I am. Is that a crime?

Offline Steve Taylor

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #549 on: April 12, 2018, 02:50:00 PM »
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That is false.
Mr. Specter: Assuming some factors in addition to those which you personally observed, Dr. Baxter, what would your opinion be if these additional facts were present: First, the President had a bullet wound of entry on the right posterior thorax just above the upper border of the Scapula with the wound measuring 7 by 4 mm. in oval shape, being 14 cm. from the tip of the right acromion process and 14 cm. below the tip of the right mastoid process--assume this is the set of facts, that the wound Just described was caused by a 6.5 mm bullet shot from approximately 160 to 250 feet away from the President, from a weapon having a muzzle velocity of approximately 2,000 feet per second, assuming as a third factor that the bullet passed through the President's body, going in between the strap muscles of the shoulder without violating the pleura space and exited at a point in the midline of the neck, would the hole which you saw on the President's throat be consistent with an exit point, assuming the factors which I have Just given to you?

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Re: A straight line
« Reply #549 on: April 12, 2018, 02:50:00 PM »

 

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