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Author Topic: Humor me  (Read 3561 times)

Offline Paul May

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Humor me
« on: March 10, 2019, 03:00:06 AM »
Unknown source


* If I may be as blunt as those who characterize Lone Nutters (and me in particular) as hopeless, unworthy dolts:  I am very, very familiar with conspiracy communities and the dynamics of how they operate.  There is a point at which conspiracy thinking becomes so irrational, so credulous, so divorced from reality, that it is a species of mental illness.  I donít characterize all conspiracy theorists in this manner, but this illness is rampant on these forums, up to and including some of the most prominent and active posters.  It is screamingly obvious to me, and I donít think Iím uniquely discerning.  I assume that others who have not descended into this madness can see it as well.  As DVP keeps pointing out, when the entire conspiracy scenario hinges on every damn document being faked or altered, every agency from the CIA to the Postal Service being corrupt, everyone from the President to the janitor being in on the conspiracy, LHO of all people being an innocent ďpatsy," every gap in the record being filled in with raw conspiracy speculation Ė well, sorry, but youíve descended into madness.  Thereís no polite way to say it.  The sin of participants such as myself is that we live in the real world, where humans and agencies are sloppy, fallible and error-prone, where most things are at least pretty much as they seem to be, where successful conspiracies are neither elaborate nor convoluted, and where common sense and logic are valued.

Can we stop the "patsy" silliness now?  He said he was a patsy of the DPD, who had arrested him only because he was a known defector.  He said this to a crowd of reporters.  Yet when he was interrogated by the DPD, FBI, Secret Service and Postal Service, he said NOTHING about being anyone's patsy or even vaguely suggesting he'd been duped into some role in an assassination conspiracy.  Never has no much mileage been derived from nothing.  The conspiracy community has become like some crazy parrot who thinks he's going to get crackers if he keeps squawking "patsy."



Humor me here:  Oswald was a troubled youth from a troubled childhood whose Marxist "working man" fantasies began at the age of 15; who followed his two brothers into the military because there were no other options to escape the mother from hell; who as a Marine had engaged in some unusual activities (the high-dollar Japanese hostess, the plane photos in the duffle bag, the in-your-face interest in the USSR, the conversations with a fellow Marine about joining the revolution in Cuba); who said that he had begun formulating his defection plan more than a year before he carried it out; who got himself sent home early for an entirely bogus reason (Mom's health); who almost immediately left Mom and entered the USSR via the very route that would ensure the least delay or chance for snafus (Helsinki); who put on a comical show at the American Embassy; who made a half-hearted suicide attempt when it appeared he would have to go home; who wrote comical I'm-a-Russian-now letters back to Mom and Robert; who quickly became disaffected with the Marxist utopia and began ridiculing the very things the Soviets held dearest; who engaged in sit-down strikes and stole military-sensitive parts to try to make "grenades" in his apartment (and asked his best friend's advice about the chemicals to use), conduct that would've caused the typical radio factory worker to be shot or sent to Siberia; who showed utterly no interest in any of the sensitive things the KGB dangled in front of him to test whether he might be a U.S. operative; who had decided to return to the U.S. and wrote the U.S. Embassy barely a year and a half after his arrival; who married Marina six weeks after meeting her and assuring her and her MVD uncle that he was fully committed to staying in the USSR; who greatly complicated his request to return the U.S. by marrying Marina; who, in the KGB's extensive monitoring of his apartment, never showed himself to be anything other than a harmless, troubled young man; who returned to the U.S. a completely different and more angry man (according to Marina); who saw his marriage collapse, who lived in nothing but abject poverty, and who could never rise above a minimum-wage job despite his delusions of grandeur; who shifted his dreams to Cuba and engaged in a series of activities to make those dreams come true, including a nothing-short-of-bizarre visit to Mexico City.
THAT Oswald - THAT is your portrait of a CIA false defector/operative???  Hey, I don't doubt that the CIA and KGB had a "keen operational interest" in Oswald, as in:  "WHAT ON EARTH IS THIS GUY UP TO, because we've never seen anything like it?"  (The KGB said as much:  Oswald's behavior was so completely at odds with a false defector that they thought he might be part of some weird new program.)  What I think he was up to was "being Oswald."

JFK Assassination Forum

Humor me
« on: March 10, 2019, 03:00:06 AM »


Offline David Von Pein

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2019, 06:29:54 AM »
What I think he was up to was "being Oswald."

I agree. Very much so. ....

"Lee Harvey Oswald was a first-rate, bona fide kook. And he killed President John F. Kennedy, by himself, when he was afforded the perfect opportunity on November 22, 1963. Knowing Oswald (who we know for an absolute fact had murder in his veins, via the attempt on General Edwin Walker's life 7 months earlier), it would probably have been criminal (from Oswald's POV) to have allowed such a golden opportunity to pass him by when the President of the country he hated conveniently drove right by the Texas School Book Depository at 11 MPH. How often does a chance like that drive by your workplace doorstep (in an open-top convertible, no less)? It's almost as if Oswald was daring HIMSELF to take those shots at the President." -- David Von Pein; September 11, 2007


« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 06:40:52 AM by David Von Pein »

Online Mark Ulrik

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2019, 11:44:26 AM »
The author is, btw, Lance Payette who posts occasionally in the Ed Forum.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Humor me
« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2019, 11:44:26 AM »


Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2019, 01:23:38 PM »

Well, it is interesting to note that the two guys (Aleksey Kulak and Ivan Obyedkov) who, with the help of a probable Russian telephone impersonator of Oswald (Nikolai Leonov), planted the USSR-protecting WW III Virus in Oswald's CIA file were both dudes whom FBI and CIA, respectively, thought were secretly working for it but were, in fact, triple-agents loyal to the Kremlin. 

It's also interesting to note that in Moscow, the KGB started feeding undercover FBI agent Morris Childs "a line," about an hour after Oswald had been arrested, when two Russian functionaries burst into a meeting and ended up telling Childs (whom they'd ostensibly not expected to brief) in perfect English that the KGB had had nothing to do with the former radar operator during the two and one-half years he'd lived in the USSR.

Not to mention certain other assassination-related Ruskie shenanigans over the years, such as (as was revealed in the most recent batch of National Archives releases) that the FBI informant "Shamrock" (Boris Orekhov) -- who told The Bureau in 1967 that, immediately after the assassination, the KGB had commenced a six-month investigation which determined that ... gasp ... right-wing oilmen in the U.S. had conspired to assassinate JFK -- was himself a triple-agent, loyal to the Kremlin.

https://www-nationalreview-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nationalreview.com/2007/10/lucky-stars-ion-mihai-pacepa/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2F2007%2F10%2Flucky-stars-ion-mihai-pacepa%2F

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)

PS:  More on "Shamrock" / Orekhov here:
https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1018691001?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F2018%2F01%2F10%2Fjfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane%2F1018691001%2F
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 02:24:32 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Robert Reeves

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2019, 02:11:17 PM »
I agree. Very much so. ....

"Lee Harvey Oswald was a first-rate, bona fide kook. And he killed President John F. Kennedy, by himself, when he was afforded the perfect opportunity on November 22, 1963. Knowing Oswald (who we know for an absolute fact had murder in his veins, via the attempt on General Edwin Walker's life 7 months earlier), it would probably have been criminal (from Oswald's POV) to have allowed such a golden opportunity to pass him by when the President of the country he hated conveniently drove right by the Texas School Book Depository at 11 MPH. How often does a chance like that drive by your workplace doorstep (in an open-top convertible, no less)? It's almost as if Oswald was daring HIMSELF to take those shots at the President." -- David Von Pein; September 11, 2007



Quote
Lee Harvey Oswald was a first-rate, bona fide kook. And he killed President John F. Kennedy, by himself

You want that to be true. Which is weird. It's genuinely hard to fathom what your motive is - I think of all the people I've seen participating on JFK related forums you are the most rabid 'lone nutter'. To say you passionately believe Oswald is the lone nut would be an understatement. I think even Paul is on the record as having not ruled out completely someone else was involved. The motivation to just defend the theory Oswald acted alone is weird. Unreasonable, even.

Quote
Knowing Oswald (who we know for an absolute fact had murder in his veins, via the attempt on General Edwin Walker's life 7 months earlier), it would probably have been criminal (from Oswald's POV) to have allowed such a golden opportunity to pass him by when the President of the country he hated conveniently drove right by the Texas School Book Depository at 11 MPH

You paint a picture of Oswald excitedly salivating at the prospect of shooting JFK dead. But yet, the frothing at the mouth nutcase Oswald, you paint a picture of, instead of shooting JFK at the easiest and most obvious opportunity from Main onto N Houston. He calmly waits until the limo turns onto Elm, misses his first shot ... frantically seeking to kill JFK, Oswald hurries a reload (as the limo gets further away ... 80 yards or so further down Elm), he missed the head shot! again, with increased pressure ratcheting down upon himself Oswald frantically reloading his weapon knowing he's facing very stiff odds to get the opportunity to re-sight on the target and squeeze the trigger *had the SS been doing their job in protecting JFK the limo should have been floored engaging the fast exit gearing* but somehow Oswald manages this task - but only manages to shot JFK in the back. WTF, Oswald get it done! surely someone will take control of the situation and give the order to save JFK's life and get the duck (quack) out of there! Surely the highly professional SS will enact their training and evacuate the VIP from the scene at the sounds of shots fired? But wait, the limo driver Greer has found the time to turn his head around to face JFK and only when JFK's the head explodes, in front of his eyes, only then is Greer prepared to pull away quick sharp. The tension was building! Oswald, carried out his own personal mission, defied his self-made ever-increasing odds (by letting the limo take the turn onto Elm) ... he somehow kept his cool ... made sure (eventually) that JFK doesn't get out of dealey plaza alive! Oswald didn't even break a sweat, apparently.

So many reasonable eyewitnesses stated hearing: BANG ... BANG/BANG. The two final shots on top of each other.

What's your theory about that, David? *knows there's a perfectly scripted reply* so don't bother - just wondering if there's anything inside your soul that has an opinion, a personal view, of how the final two shots that so many people within earshot seem to recall hearing. Do you have any theories about how these two shots could have come from Oswald? Do you totally rule out the possibility someone else fired another shot? doesn't something inside you wonder how so many people could have got it wrong hearing 2 shots together, in quick succession (impossible for a bolt-action) as you know.

Do you have any personal opinions on the JFK assassination David? you parrot almost every opinion, some say scripted, reply for lone nutters.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Humor me
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2019, 02:11:17 PM »


Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2019, 02:25:42 PM »
Well, it is interesting to note that FBI's Aleksey Kulak and CIA's Ivan Obyedkov, probably with the scripted help of Russian telephone impersonator and Cuban-visa-application-photo-provider Nikolai Leonov, planted the USSR-protecting WW III Virus in Oswald's CIA file were dudes whom FBI and CIA, respectively, thought were secretly working for it but were, in fact, triple-agents loyal to the Kremlin. 

It's also interesting to note that in Moscow, the KGB started feeding undercover FBI agent Morris Childs "a line," about an hour after Oswald had been arrested, when two Russian functionaries burst into a meeting and ended up telling Childs (whom they'd ostensibly not expected to brief) in perfect English that the KGB had had nothing to do with the former radar operator during the two and one-half years he'd lived in the USSR.

Not to mention certain other assassination-related Ruskie shenanigans over the years, such as (as was revealed in the most recent batch of National Archives releases) that the FBI informant "Shamrock" (Boris Orekhov) -- who told The Bureau in 1967 that, immediately after the assassination, the KGB had commenced a six-month investigation which determined that ... gasp ... the U.S. "military-industrial complex" had conspired to assassinate JFK -- was himself a triple-agent, loyal to the Kremlin.

https://www-nationalreview-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nationalreview.com/2007/10/lucky-stars-ion-mihai-pacepa/amp/?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nationalreview.com%2F2007%2F10%2Flucky-stars-ion-mihai-pacepa%2F

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)

PS:  More on "Shamrock" / Orekhov here:
https://amp-usatoday-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1018691001?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2F2018%2F01%2F10%2Fjfk-files-kgb-had-trusted-relationship-longtime-warren-commission-critic-mark-lane%2F1018691001%2F

edited and bumped

Addendum: What the last article, above, (and the Mitrokhin File) says about Mark Lane should make one wonder if journalist Mary Woodward really did tell him what he claimed she had -- that shots seemed to her to have come from the Grassy Knoll ...
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 03:41:15 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 03:30:36 PM »
I agree. Very much so. ....

"Lee Harvey Oswald was a first-rate, bona fide kook. And he killed President John F. Kennedy, by himself, when he was afforded the perfect opportunity on November 22, 1963. Knowing Oswald (who we know for an absolute fact had murder in his veins, via the attempt on General Edwin Walker's life 7 months earlier), it would probably have been criminal (from Oswald's POV) to have allowed such a golden opportunity to pass him by when the President of the country he hated conveniently drove right by the Texas School Book Depository at 11 MPH. How often does a chance like that drive by your workplace doorstep (in an open-top convertible, no less)? It's almost as if Oswald was daring HIMSELF to take those shots at the President." -- David Von Pein; September 11, 2007



Mr Howard wrote:  I originally made 5 examples but only 3 were successful. In turn I sold one of the successful examples to Stanley J. Szerszen.Ē

Turns out Mr Howard was able to duplicate CE 399 three times with five cartridges....  Good Lord... How many men did he shoot?    Did he really shoot 10 men to create the conditions under which we are told CE 399 was created?   WHO believes this?    Is there a single LNer who will step up and defend CE 399 ??   

How about you Von P??   

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Humor me
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2019, 03:30:36 PM »


Offline Paul May

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2019, 11:40:33 PM »
The author is, btw, Lance Payette who posts occasionally in the Ed Forum.

Thanks Mark.

Offline Paul May

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2019, 11:44:39 PM »
You want that to be true. Which is weird. It's genuinely hard to fathom what your motive is - I think of all the people I've seen participating on JFK related forums you are the most rabid 'lone nutter'. To say you passionately believe Oswald is the lone nut would be an understatement. I think even Paul is on the record as having not ruled out completely someone else was involved. The motivation to just defend the theory Oswald acted alone is weird. Unreasonable, even.

You paint a picture of Oswald excitedly salivating at the prospect of shooting JFK dead. But yet, the frothing at the mouth nutcase Oswald, you paint a picture of, instead of shooting JFK at the easiest and most obvious opportunity from Main onto N Houston. He calmly waits until the limo turns onto Elm, misses his first shot ... frantically seeking to kill JFK, Oswald hurries a reload (as the limo gets further away ... 80 yards or so further down Elm), he missed the head shot! again, with increased pressure ratcheting down upon himself Oswald frantically reloading his weapon knowing he's facing very stiff odds to get the opportunity to re-sight on the target and squeeze the trigger *had the SS been doing their job in protecting JFK the limo should have been floored engaging the fast exit gearing* but somehow Oswald manages this task - but only manages to shot JFK in the back. WTF, Oswald get it done! surely someone will take control of the situation and give the order to save JFK's life and get the duck (quack) out of there! Surely the highly professional SS will enact their training and evacuate the VIP from the scene at the sounds of shots fired? But wait, the limo driver Greer has found the time to turn his head around to face JFK and only when JFK's the head explodes, in front of his eyes, only then is Greer prepared to pull away quick sharp. The tension was building! Oswald, carried out his own personal mission, defied his self-made ever-increasing odds (by letting the limo take the turn onto Elm) ... he somehow kept his cool ... made sure (eventually) that JFK doesn't get out of dealey plaza alive! Oswald didn't even break a sweat, apparently.

So many reasonable eyewitnesses stated hearing: BANG ... BANG/BANG. The two final shots on top of each other.

What's your theory about that, David? *knows there's a perfectly scripted reply* so don't bother - just wondering if there's anything inside your soul that has an opinion, a personal view, of how the final two shots that so many people within earshot seem to recall hearing. Do you have any theories about how these two shots could have come from Oswald? Do you totally rule out the possibility someone else fired another shot? doesn't something inside you wonder how so many people could have got it wrong hearing 2 shots together, in quick succession (impossible for a bolt-action) as you know.

Do you have any personal opinions on the JFK assassination David? you parrot almost every opinion, some say scripted, reply for lone nutters.

Correct Robert.  I am on record stating Oswald shot and killed JFK on his own. Whether he was doing so on behalf of another or institution, we will never know.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Humor me
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2019, 11:44:39 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Humor me
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 12:17:57 AM »
You want that to be true. Which is weird. It's genuinely hard to fathom what your motive is - I think of all the people I've seen participating on JFK related forums you are the most rabid 'lone nutter'. To say you passionately believe Oswald is the lone nut would be an understatement. I think even Paul is on the record as having not ruled out completely someone else was involved. The motivation to just defend the theory Oswald acted alone is weird. Unreasonable, even.

You paint a picture of Oswald excitedly salivating at the prospect of shooting JFK dead. But yet, the frothing at the mouth nutcase Oswald, you paint a picture of, instead of shooting JFK at the easiest and most obvious opportunity from Main onto N Houston. He calmly waits until the limo turns onto Elm, misses his first shot ... frantically seeking to kill JFK, Oswald hurries a reload (as the limo gets further away ... 80 yards or so further down Elm), he missed the head shot! again, with increased pressure ratcheting down upon himself Oswald frantically reloading his weapon knowing he's facing very stiff odds to get the opportunity to re-sight on the target and squeeze the trigger *had the SS been doing their job in protecting JFK the limo should have been floored engaging the fast exit gearing* but somehow Oswald manages this task - but only manages to shot JFK in the back. WTF, Oswald get it done! surely someone will take control of the situation and give the order to save JFK's life and get the duck (quack) out of there! Surely the highly professional SS will enact their training and evacuate the VIP from the scene at the sounds of shots fired? But wait, the limo driver Greer has found the time to turn his head around to face JFK and only when JFK's the head explodes, in front of his eyes, only then is Greer prepared to pull away quick sharp. The tension was building! Oswald, carried out his own personal mission, defied his self-made ever-increasing odds (by letting the limo take the turn onto Elm) ... he somehow kept his cool ... made sure (eventually) that JFK doesn't get out of dealey plaza alive! Oswald didn't even break a sweat, apparently.

So many reasonable eyewitnesses stated hearing: BANG ... BANG/BANG. The two final shots on top of each other.

What's your theory about that, David? *knows there's a perfectly scripted reply* so don't bother - just wondering if there's anything inside your soul that has an opinion, a personal view, of how the final two shots that so many people within earshot seem to recall hearing. Do you have any theories about how these two shots could have come from Oswald? Do you totally rule out the possibility someone else fired another shot? doesn't something inside you wonder how so many people could have got it wrong hearing 2 shots together, in quick succession (impossible for a bolt-action) as you know.

Do you have any personal opinions on the JFK assassination David? you parrot almost every opinion, some say scripted, reply for lone nutters.

'Some say scripted'

LOL
... and 'people are saying' I suppose. Brilliant detective work!


JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Humor me
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2019, 12:17:57 AM »