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Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?

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Online John Iacoletti

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Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« on: March 07, 2019, 08:58:46 PM »

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Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« on: March 07, 2019, 08:58:46 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2019, 04:51:57 AM »


Dear John,

Thanks for posting the Zapruder frame, because in it you can see the subtle, dark horizontal stripes in Gloria "Real Deal" Calvery's greenish-colored skirt, which stripes or bars can also be discerned in the "sliver" of her skirt that's visible in frames from Couch-Darnell, if you know where to look for it (the "sliver" of skirt, that is) and enlarge a good quality copy of the frame properly.

(Calvery's standing to the immediate right of the gal with the orange-ish headscarf.)

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)

PS  As regards the black-and-white Darnell frame, above, the 3-second clip it came from can be watched at the very end of the video that Dennis Morissette posted on another thread.

Here it is:
https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1762.msg46539.html#new
After clicking on the "link," scroll up to find the video.

On a different issue and getting back to the Zapruder frame, above: If you compare the color the skin on the man's neck with that of the woman with the "poofed-up" black hair on the right, I think it's fair to say she has pretty dark skin.  (This is easier to see in ZFrame-60, in which that woman has turned her head to the right to talk with her comrades.)
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 05:46:36 PM by Thomas Graves »

Offline Michael Walton

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2019, 12:57:30 PM »
I've been wrong before on ID-ing people in this damn case, but I'm going to say that the 3 girls in the Z frame and then seen in the BW still are the same people. If you look at the hair in both and even clothing texture in both, it really does look the like the same people.

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2019, 12:57:30 PM »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2019, 12:55:01 AM »
No!

No!

No!

Graves has absolutely NO evidence that could possibly substantiate his fevered allegation!
 
He must have a serious case of the DTs, or be dosing on LSD, or something!

Or maybe he's off his "meds," AGAIN !

Since Karen Westbrook has positively identified two of the women she was with (big, tall and very dark-red-haired Gloria Calvery and ... uh ... herself) in the Zapruder film (albeit from behind and 54 years after-the-fact), there were obviously TWO three-woman groups down there on Elm Street during the motorcade, and it's shear rotten-bad luck that both were not caught at the same time in any of the many photographs and films that were taken that day!

And it's shear COINCIDENCE that both of those groups had a woman who was wearing a light-colored headscarf, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that both groups had a woman with medium-dark hair in the middle, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that both groups had a woman with a dark Hispanic or American Indian-like complexion AND poofed-up black hair, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that in both of those groups the three women were about the same height, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that the clothes worn in each of those groups was mirror-imaged by the clothes the gals in the other group were wearing, at least from the chest up!

I could go on and on and on, but suffice it to say that Graves is attempting to do some SERIOUS DAMAGE to our honest and rigorous JFK assassination investigation, damage that could take DECADES to fix if he's successful!

I mean, I mean, I mean ... where's Thierry "Fake News" Speth when we really need him?

-- M.W.T.  :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 01:00:06 PM by Thomas Graves »

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2019, 03:48:59 AM »
Seriously now,

Just look at uncropped Betzner-3 and Zapruder Frame 187, and you'll realize the three ladies in Betzner-3
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/hunt/betzner3.jpg

are standing almost directly between Betzner's camera on the south side of Elm Street, and Zapruder up on the pedestal there on the north side of Elm Street, AND CONVERSELY, that the three women in Zapruder Frame 187

https://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/z187.jpg

are standing almost directly between Zapruder's camera and Hugh Betzner on his (south) side of Elm Street (by the reflecting pool or fountain, or whatever it's called by the near hairpin curve at Elm and Houston).  Betzner's the guy In ZFrame-187 who's dressed in light-colored clothing and holding a camera in front of his face, to the right of the person dressed in shiny blue.

So, what does that tell us?

It tells us that the three women "down there by the Stemmons sign" in black-and-white Betzner-3 are the same three women in Zapruder about whom we've been arguing for a couple of years now as to whether or not one of them might be Gloria Calvery.

(The reason I chose Zframe-187, above, is because researcher Pat Speer says that the Betzner-3 photo correlates, time-wise, with that particular Zapruder frame, and Don Roberdeau's map says Zframe-186.)

So, now that we've established that, if we're Bart Kamp or John Iacoletti, we've got to ask ourselves, "Where is that other three-woman group, darn it? You know, the one that also has a woman wearing a light-colored headscarf? I sure as heck can't find it in that panoramic Bronson-5 photo."
https://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=30

LOL
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 07:45:04 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2019, 03:48:59 AM »

Offline Michael Walton

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2019, 09:01:04 AM »
This appears to be them in the other film:



The light blue scarf on the one girl in Z matches light blue in the above.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2019, 01:21:41 PM »
This appears to be them in the other film:

The light blue scarf on the one girl in Z matches light blue in the above.

Thanks for posting that panoramic Bronson image, Michael.

EDIT: When I first viewed Bronson imague you posted on my android, I could "scroll" the image "off screen" left and right, but can't do that on my laptop.  Can you?

For purposes of correlating the above photo with the Zapruder Film and Don Roberdeau's map, etc, please note not only Umbrella Man and Dark Complected Man (and Babushka Lady on the near side), et al., down the street, but that going the other direction we can spy hat-and-suit-wearing Ernest Brandt standing directly above the end of the limo (and John Templin, to our right, next to him), and at the far right edge of the frame -- "Woman All In White".

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2019, 08:31:17 PM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2019, 01:21:41 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2019, 11:26:49 PM »
Thanks for posting the Zapruder frame, because in it you can see the subtle, dark horizontal stripes in Gloria "Real Deal" Calvery's greenish-colored skirt, which stripes or bars can also be discerned in the "sliver" of her skirt that's visible in frames from Couch-Darnell, if you know where to look for it (the "sliver" of skirt, that is) and enlarge a good quality copy of the frame properly.

Yes, I can see a pattern in the skirt of the woman in Zapruder who may or may not be Calvery.

Darnell, not so much.

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2019, 11:26:49 PM »

Online John Iacoletti

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2019, 11:33:11 PM »
He must have a serious case of the DTs, or be dosing on LSD, or
And it's shear COINCIDENCE that both of those groups had a woman who was wearing a light-colored headscarf, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that both groups had a woman with medium-dark hair in the middle, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that both groups had a woman with a dark Hispanic or American Indian-like complexion AND poofed-up black hair, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that in both of those groups the three women were about the same height, and it's shear COINCIDENCE that the clothes worn in each of those groups was mirror-imaged by the clothes the gals in the other group were wearing, at least from the chest up!

Tommy thinks that sarcasm is evidence, but unfortunately for Tommy, he doesn?t actually know that the three Darnell women stood in a ?three woman group? on Elm street, nor does he even know that Holt, Simmons, and Jacob stood in a ?three woman group? on Elm street. Nor does he know how tall any of them were.

Reality bites.

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I could go on and on and on,

Yes, and I?m sure you will.

Online Thomas Graves

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2019, 12:19:04 AM »
Yes, I can see a pattern in the skirt of the woman in Zapruder who may or may not be Calvery.

Darnell, not so much.

Iacoletti,

What?

Why aren't you unequivocally stating that the big, tall, black-headscarf-wearing woman in Zapruder -- wearing the greenish skirt with the broad (but subtle), alternating, dark-colored and light-colored horizontal stripes -- can't POSSIBLY be big, tall, dark-red-haired Gloria Calvery, because because because, you know ... gasp ... Karen Westbrook DONE IDENTIFIED herself as the light-blue headscarf-wearing gal, and the average-sized, strawberry-blonde gal next to "her" as big, tall, dark-red-haired Gloria Calvery on the smilin' and noddin' Stephen Fagin show (albeit from behind and 54 years after-the-fact)?

What's gotten into you, John?

-- Mudd Wrassler Tommy  :)
« Last Edit: March 10, 2019, 03:56:50 AM by Thomas Graves »

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Re: Have Doyle and Graves proven that these are the same people?
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2019, 12:19:04 AM »

 

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