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Author Topic: Newman's Into the Storm  (Read 1658 times)

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 10:44:27 PM »
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"Harvey & Lee" although I had quite a bit of help with that.

What part of "Harvey & Lee"?  The notion of two Oswalds goes back long before John Armstrong's research. Furthermore, you're claim was in the plural and this would be just one.

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 10:44:27 PM »

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2019, 11:41:09 PM »
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What part of "Harvey & Lee"?  The notion of two Oswalds goes back long before John Armstrong's research. Furthermore, you're claim was in the plural and this would be just one.


The exhumation of LHO in 1981 debunked the 2 Oswald theory of Michael Eddowes. It also debunked H&L before it was even devised. I have over twenty articles that help to debunk minor theories associated with H&L. But you don't need to ask me about this here (unless you are just trying to start something), you can read the articles and judge my work for yourself. Thanks for your interest.

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2019, 08:41:49 PM »
Part 3 of my review of Newman's book looks at Veciana's "lost" testimony, Veciana and the Army and Zabala's Revelation.

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2019, 08:41:49 PM »

Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2019, 12:15:55 PM »
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Part 3 of my review of Newman's book looks at Veciana's "lost" testimony, Veciana and the Army and Zabala's Revelation.

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Well said, sir+

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2019, 02:08:30 PM »
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Well said, sir+


Thanks very much for your interest Mark.

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2019, 02:08:30 PM »

Offline Steve M. Galbraith

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2019, 09:14:17 PM »
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Part 3 of my review of Newman's book looks at Veciana's "lost" testimony, Veciana and the Army and Zabala's Revelation.

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Another solid piece. Thanks Tracy.

As you pointed out, Newman shows that Veciana has been curiously reluctant to discuss his contacts/relationship with the US Army during this period in question. Except for that one mention in (I believe) Fonzi's book, he never discusses it. It's nowhere in his book. Very odd.

It seems pretty clear that Veciana simply didn't want to work with the CIA because he'd have to give up too much control over his group to the US. No more of those attacks on Soviet ships. And the CIA wasn't going to work with his group unless they had greater control over it. So the relationship was a no-go from the start. I think after the missile crisis in particular that the CIA simply wasn't going to let some of these groups have a free rein. Certainly not to allow them to attack foreign owned ships in Cuban harbors.

At this point, I think we can fundamentally dismiss anything Veciana says. His credibility is just shot.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 01:07:35 AM by Steve M. Galbraith »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2019, 10:06:59 PM »
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Well said, sir+

I don't think the "Ferry's" Frequent Flyer, Brian (CALL ME AL) or Armstrong's internet sock puppet Hargrove would agree with you, at all.

Mr. Parnell and I , and I expect you, Mark as well, are not liberated by oft stated conviction that all available disagreeable
documentary evidence is fake or fabricated. No self published, thousand page book on the horizon, authored by any of us!

Quote
Tom Scully said:
07-09-2015 10:07 PM
Quote
Originally Posted by BrianDoyle :
FBI is lying Scully.
They do so carefully by saying Rizzuto claimed Oswald was in the Village after returning from the Soviet Union. But a look at the claim would reveal the record shows the evidence Rizzuto was telling the FBI actually showed Oswald was in New York in 1961 and 1962 before the defecting Oswald returned from the Soviet Union. The Voice article was based on deceptive disinformation from the FBI in their attempt to discredit Steven Harris Landesberg and his explosive revelation that Oswald was seen with FBI provocateur Steven Richard Landesberg in New York. What FBI did was set-up SH Landesberg as being the same person as the provocateur who used the alias "L'eandes". As the evidence SH Landesberg was trying to reveal shows, L'Eandes was Steven Richard Landesberg. FBI knew this was dangerous so they screwed SH Landesberg and claimed he was L'eandes (As the inaccurate Village​ Voice article relates). That way they could commit him and not investigate the rest of the evidence that showed SR Landesberg was a provocateur who worked with the real Lee Harvey Oswald while a CIA imposter was in Russia.


Read the Education Forum Harvey & Lee thread to catch up.
Catch up, catsup, or ketchcup?

It is impossible to engage you in discussion here, or at amazon.com book reviews, just as it was impossible in our back and forth on the now defunct Lancer forum in 2013, on the issue of Peter Janney's accuracy or sincerity?
You stipulate to nothing, no government sourced document can possibly be authentic, according to you.....

Quote
Tom Scully posted  07-10-2015 06:31 AM:

Respected, long time forum member Doyle, I am replying to your "Rizzuto the next day." reference here, for effect, and to make certain you do not overlook this! It takes even more nerve to dismiss the entire investigative record out of hand and replace it with unsupported speculation. I refer to the same documentary record John Armstrong cites and provides a collection of. I asked you to provide some proof, since there is none so far describing Barry Gray meeting Rizzuto face to face. Gray was not investigated on suspicion of misleading the FBI by not informing BU agents that Gray had knowledge that Rizzuto did not resemble L'eandes, but SH Landesberg was investigated and arrested. You twist your inability to support that Barry Gray saw Rizzuto in person, you ignore that Gray was not even investigated but SH Landesberg was, and then you present your suspicions as if they were my shortcoming or flaw....and you declare that I have a lot of nerve! Do you actually expect that your tactics are improving "this site"?

This is page (2) from this location. Does the web address ring a bell? What it tells us confirms it is a mistake for you to contest what I pointed out in my last post. Rizzuto called the Barry Gray show late, Gray enlisted the aid of the station's PR guy, Roger W. Turner, who steered Rizzuto immediately to meet with NYC BU agents for interview. GRAY NEVER MET FACE TO FACE with Rizzuto before FBI agents questioned Rizzuto.:

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Can we move on to the Ralph Yates thread, now?

Epilogue: 22 years after Armstrong's letter to Barney Miller TV show cast member Landesberg, Doyle, et al, stopped discussing
Armstrong's claims about Landesberg. They also no longer present on the postal money orders Oswald purchased in 1962 and in March, 1963 displayed suspiciously out of sequence serial numbers or that the money order sent to Klein's Sporting Goods was suspiciously
retrieved from an archive in Arlington, VA instead of from Kansas City, MO.

Armstrong acolyte Joseph summed up his approach to discerning the weight of evidence. I'll post it after I find it.

Quote
John Armstrong and His Evolving Landesberg Theory ~ W. Tracy Parnell
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Jan 6, 2017 - In 1993, Armstrong contacted Mr. Landesberg and asked him to respond ...... Armstrong's letter to Landesberg can be found in his Baylor files.
Jan 6, 2017 - In 1993, Armstrong contacted Mr. Landesberg and asked him to respond ...... Armstrong's letter to Landesberg can be found in his Baylor files.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 12:10:47 AM by Tom Scully »

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2019, 10:06:59 PM »

Online W. Tracy Parnell

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2019, 11:37:54 PM »
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Another solid piece. Thanks Tracy.

As you pointed out, Newman shows that Veciana has been curiously very reluctant to discuss his contacts/relationship with the US Army during this critical period. Except for that one mention in (I believe) Fonzi's book, he never discusses it. It's nowhere in his book. Very odd.

It seems pretty clear that Veciana simply didn't want to work with the CIA because he'd have to give up too much control over his group to the US. And the CIA wasn't going to work with his group unless they had greater control over it. So the relationship was a no-go from the start. I think after the missile crisis in particular that the CIA simply wasn't going to let some of these groups have a free rein.

At this point, I think we can fundamentally dismiss anything Veciana says. His credibility is just shot.

Thanks for reading and commenting Steve. Watch for my next piece which will discuss Veciana's possible motive assuming he made up the "Maurice Bishop" thing.

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2019, 11:37:54 PM »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2019, 12:05:04 AM »
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.....

Armstrong acolyte Joseph summed up his approach to discerning the weight of evidence. I'll post it after I find it.

I don't anticipate this is an exclusive approach, but it seems hypocritical, not to mention the integrity of the resulting research.:

The  quote below was prompted by my presentation of this point, highlighted in black brackets:


Quote
David Josephs said:
07-15-2015 08:58 PM

.....I proceed under the assumption that as a conspiracy, EVERYTHING related to the incrimination of Oswald is suspect. The hiding of the real murder as well as the ancillary operations that needed hiding leads me to conclude that what we are offered as Evidence pertains more to the cover-up of info and was therefore "created/improved/altered" for that reason.

That the DoD card may have not been in Nagell's possessions means it was either added to the pile later to connect the men, or that the evidence to prove the connection (of which so many of these connections were severed once the Commie Conspiracy became the Lone Nut) was made to disappear so it would be harder to prove the Nagell/Oswald connection...
or it was done for reasons we simply cannot comprehend at this point.


Translation,  (heads I win, tails...you guessed it...) the truth is what I discern it to be, impervious and unresponsive to all counter argument or any of its supporting evidence.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2019, 12:15:53 AM by Tom Scully »

Online Jerry Freeman

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2019, 10:24:56 PM »
To the casual guests and readers...Bear in mind there are other sides to a story....
Quote
Parnell says that Veciana has "exaggerated his place in history" by simply saying he met his intelligence case officer and the patsy in the assassination of the President in Dallas a few months before the assassination. What kind of place in history is that?
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There are a lot of related threads here ie- The CIA Was Involved and Was Oswald Really in Mexico? Now, if you say yes to the one and no to the other  :-\ well shame on you. Always noteworthy is- Kennedy asked for Allen Dulles resignation ...think there was any tearful exCIA director at the JFK funeral? And why did Johnson really put him on the commission?
 

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Re: Newman's Into the Storm
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2019, 10:24:56 PM »

 

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