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Author Topic: BWF and LMR may not have been the only ones who saw LHO with a bag on 11/22/1963  (Read 23180 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Wasn't there a number of items recovered from the Paine residence

Yes!  Thumb1:

Which of these items were fingerprinted, Mr Mytton?




Quote
, maybe they were just trying to establish that Oswald was ever at the Paine residence, what proof is there that Oswald was actually in the Paine house?

JENNER: We need to establish for sure that Oswald was at the Paine residence.
HOWLETT: Well, we've already established that.
JENNER: No, we need fingerprints! Fingerprints, I tells ya.
HOWLETT: Okayyyy. What should we fingerprint?
JENNER: Something movable, Agent Howlett. It's only way of making 100% sure he was ever there.

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Did Frazier see Oswald go into the house?
Wasn't Ruth connected to the CIA?
Wasn't Marina connected to the KGB?
Wasn't Ruth's kids 7th level Masons?
And as for Michael Paine he was guilty up to his eyeballs.

So my conclusion is that nobody can be trusted and they wanted proof that Oswald stayed at the Paine residence!

JohnM

In which Mr Mytton realises he's all out of ideas!  :D

Online Colin Crow

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In fairness to Messrs Nickerson and Mytton, this My-Nice-Makey-Uppy-Numbers-Beat-Your-Nasty-Hard-Evidence-Numbers theory may be the single most impressive demonstration of JFK assassination research skill since Mr Doyle proved that Ms Stanton was wearing a wig in a professional situation on 11/22!

 Thumb1:

At least brave enough to jump on.......better than some.



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Offline Alan Ford

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At least brave enough to jump on.......better than some.



True!  Thumb1:

But the other Warren Gullibles must be looking at the self-evisceration of Messrs Nickerson and Mytton and thinking 'Good thing I stayed out of this...'

Online Colin Crow

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I think the least we can conclude is that Day was not adverse to altering documentation. Knock me over with a feather.

I can now think of a reason to fingerprint the rods in the Paine garage. If the rods were originally stored in a bag and Oswald?s prints were on rods 275 and/or 276 it might suggest he used that bag (and possibly other rods if there were originally more than 2).

Alan, did you see the above scenario? I am reminded of Tony Fratini's work on CE142 being constructed by Studebaker originally as a transportation cover for the rifle. Was another bag discovered in mid-March? In the Paine curtain rod paperwork we have combined efforts of the DPD and SS, no FBI. The latter mysteriously finding an Oswald print on 23 November.

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Offline Alan Ford

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So!

Let us lay out the scenario of Messrs Nickerson and Mytton...

Scene One: Wednesday, 25 March 1964, 9:45 am

-Agent Howlett visits the crime lab and tells Lieutenant Day he needs these two curtain rods tested for Mr Oswald's prints because the investigation still lacks ironclad proof that Mr Oswald was ever in the Paine home
-Lieutenant Day, not being a moron, gives Agent Howlett an incredulous stare but, being a professional, takes the package and reaches for an official sign-in/sign-out form
-Lieutenant Day, being a moron and not nearly as punctilious when it comes to trivial things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, enters the date as 15 March instead of 25 March
-Not being a moron, he gets everything else right: "2 curtain rods, white enameled (4 pieces) marked 275 & 276"
-He signs his name in the appropriate field and gives the form to Agent Howlett for his signature
-Agent Howlett, being a moron and not nearly as punctilious when it comes to trivial things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, doesn't notice the wrong date and happily countersigns

Scene Two: Wednesday, 25 March 1964, time unknown

-Lieutenant Day, not being a moron, engages in the specialised task of testing the curtain rods for fingerprints and cross-checking these against Mr Oswald's prints
-Lieutenant Day, not being a moron and being as punctilious when it comes to important things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, correctly notes the date on the first card: 25 March

Scene Three: Thursday 26 March 1964, 7.50 am

-Agent Howlett comes back to pick up the curtain rods: he is distraught to learn from Lieutenant Day that, as Mr Oswald's prints are not on them, the investigation still lacks ironclad proof that Mr Oswald was ever in the Paine home
-Lieutenant Day pulls out the sign-in/sign-out form
-Lieutenant Day, being a moron and not nearly as punctilious when it comes to trivial things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, again fails to notice the wildly incorrect date at the top of the form
-Lieutenant Day, being a complete moron and not remotely as punctilious when it comes to trivial things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, compounds his earlier mistake by now writing today's date (26 March) as 24 March
-Agent Howlett, being a complete moron and not remotely as punctilious when it comes to trivial things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, fails to notice that the official form he is being asked to sign for a second time now contains not one but two incorrect dates, and so he happily countersigns

Scene Three: Thursday 26 March 1964, time unknown

-Lieutenant Day, not being a moron and being as punctilious when it comes to important things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, notices in glancing over the form that the date of release is two days out... 'How could I have been such a moron and not nearly as punctilious when it comes to important things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries?' he says to himself, and determines to haul out an earlier copy of the incomplete version of the form so he can fix the moronic error
-Lieutenant Day, not being a moron and being as punctilious when it comes to important things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, gets the date of release right this time: 26 March
-Lieutenant Day, not being a moron and being as punctilious when it comes to important things like timestamps as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, knows to consult the original completed form before entering the time at which the rods were released: 7.50 am
-Lieutenant Day, having gone to all this trouble to fix a moronic date error but being a moron and not nearly as punctilious when it comes to trivial things like dates as a Person Who Signs For Commercial Deliveries, still fails to notice that the date of submission is wildly out, so he leaves that date stand: 15 March.

Solved!  Thumb1:

Offline Alan Ford

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Alan, did you see the above scenario? I am reminded of Tony Fratini's work on CE142 being constructed by Studebaker originally as a transportation cover for the rifle. Was another bag discovered in mid-March? In the Paine curtain rod paperwork we have combined efforts of the DPD and SS, no FBI. The latter mysteriously finding an Oswald print on 23 November.

Not sure I quite follow you, Mr Crow:

"I can now think of a reason to fingerprint the rods in the Paine garage. If the rods were originally stored in a bag and Oswald?s prints were on rods 275 and/or 276 it might suggest he used that bag (and possibly other rods if there were originally more than 2)."

Even if Mr Oswald's prints showed up on 2 curtain rods in the Paine garage, how would that tie a bag discovered in the Depository to curtain rods? And how would a random empty bag discovered in the Depository even have come to the authorities' attention?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 01:12:27 PM by Alan Ford »

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Online Colin Crow

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Not sure I quite follow you, Mr Crow:

"I can now think of a reason to fingerprint the rods in the Paine garage. If the rods were originally stored in a bag and Oswald?s prints were on rods 275 and/or 276 it might suggest he used that bag (and possibly other rods if there were originally more than 2)."

Even if Mr Oswald's prints showed up on 2 curtain rods in the Paine garage, how would that tie a bag discovered in the Depository to curtain rods? And how would a random empty bag discovered in the Depository even have come to the authorities' attention?

Just wondering why they bothered with the tape and paper samples at that time also. Was an alternate bag found, one that might have been originally constructed to house the Paine curtain rods.

Offline Alan Ford

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Just wondering why they bothered with the tape and paper samples at that time also. Was an alternate bag found, one that might have been originally constructed to house the Paine curtain rods.

Mr Crow, I think the entire on-the-record WC visit to the Paine garage was a complete sham, of no evidentiary value whatsoever. Its sole purpose was to make safe the curtain rods issue.

The items they took away were nonsense items removed and marked as Exhibits in order to lend cover for Mr Jenner's contrived numbering of the two curtain rods as 'Ruth Paine Exhibit 275' and 'Ruth Paine Exhibit 276'.



If any of these items had been considered important as evidence, they would have been removed by DPD, FBI, SS back in November.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2019, 02:13:44 PM by Alan Ford »

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Online Walt Cakebread

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Mr Crow, I think the entire on-the-record WC visit to the Paine garage was a complete sham, of no evidentiary value whatsoever. Its sole purpose was to make safe the curtain rods issue.

The items they took away were nonsense items whose sole purpose was to lend cover for Mr Jenner's contrived numbering of the two curtain rods as 'Ruth Paine Exhibit 275' and 'Ruth Paine Exhibit 276'.



If any of these items had been considered important as evidence, they would have been removed by DPD, FBI, SS back in November.

Item #6----"Ruth Paine Ex 275-276  Curtain Rods found on a shelf in the garage of Ruth Paine."

May I suggest that this entry is simply a bold lie and the entire list was composed for the sole purpose of establishing that the curtain rods 275 - 276 were found in the Paine Garage and not at the TSBD....



Offline Alan Ford

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Item #6----"Ruth Paine Ex 275-276  Curtain Rods found on a shelf in the garage of Ruth Paine."

May I suggest that this entry is simply a bold lie and the entire list was composed for the sole purpose of establishing that the curtain rods 275 - 276 were found in the Paine Garage and not at the TSBD....

You may, Mr Cakebread, and you'd be right!  Thumb1:

The dates on the Crime Scene Search Section form(s) support this.

Mr Jenner's 'random' choice of 270 to start his Exhibit marking at supports it.

The fact that the 2 curtain rods 'marked 275 & 276' were tested for Mr Oswald's fingerprints supports it.

The utter inconsequentiality of the other items on this list supports it.

The utter pointlessness of the WC's on-the-record visit to the Paine home supports it.

The fact that none of these other items were tested for Mr Oswald's fingerprints supports it.

It's very simple:

2 curtain rods were found in the Depository; they were 'absorbed' into the 2 curtain rods still left in the Paine garage!

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