Sorry, not understanding your seeming enthusiasm/excitement ....
Congrats to you Tom, at least for having the research skills to find anything that referenced this first! You managed to beat the sheep (not surprising really).
However, the McAdams attempted rebuttal, in part using Davidson is somewhat lacking and not so well researched as it claims. The attempt to used testimony of Howlett is incorrect as I could find nothing that related to the rods in his two pages referenced (424 and 425).
Below are the relevant dates and testimonies of Ruth and Michael as far as I could find......
Ruth Paine in Washington From Saturday March 21 ? Continuation of testimony taken Friday 19th MarchMr. JENNER - Now, that morning--if I may, Mr. Chairman, because of the entry of the police, that is a good cutoff point, I would like to go back to the morning for the moment, or the evening before. Mrs. Paine, did you then have what might be called some curtain rods in your garage?
Mrs. PAINE - I believe there were.
Mr. JENNER - Do you have a recollection?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; they were stored in the garage, wrapped in loose brown paper.
Mr. JENNER - Is it the brown paper of the nature and character you described yesterday that you get at the market and have in a roll?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Had you wrapped that package yourself?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Now, curtain rods can be of various types. One type of curtain rod, as I remember, is a solid brass rod. Others are hollow. Some are shaped. Would you describe these curtain rods, please?
Mrs. PAINE - They were a light weight.
Mr. JENNER - Excuse me; do you still have them?
Mrs. PAINE - I still have them.
Mr. JENNER - All right.
Mrs. PAINE - Metal rods that you slip the curtain over, not with a ring but just with the cloth itself, and they are expansion rods.
Mr. JENNER - Are they flat on one side?
Mrs. PAINE - They are flat on one side; about an inch wide and about a quarter of an inch thick.
Mr. JENNER - And assume we are holding the rod horizontally, do the edges of the rod slip over?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Did you wrap these rods in the paper? Had you wrapped them?
Mrs. PAINE - Sometime previously I had.
Senator COOPER - How long before?
Mrs. PAINE - Oh, possibly a year.
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - Possibly a year.
Senator COOPER - As far as you know, they had never been changed?
Mrs. PAINE - Moved about, but not changed.
Senator COOPER - Can you just describe the length?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - The length of the rods, at the time you wrapped them.
Mrs. PAINE - They would be 36 inches when pushed together.
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - They would be about maybe 36 inches when pushed together.
Senator COOPER - You remember wrapping them. Do you remember what the size, the length of the rods were at the time you wrapped them?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - How long?
Mrs. PAINE - Didn't I answer about 36 inches?
Mr. JENNER - In other words, you pushed them together so that then, they were then their minimum length, unexpanded?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - They were not extended, and in that condition they were 36 inches long?
Mrs. PAINE - Something like that.
Mr. JENNER - Now, how many of them were there?
Mrs. PAINE - Two.
Mr. JENNER - These were lightweight metal?
Mrs. PAINE - Very. Now, there was another item that was both heavier and longer.
Mr. JENNER - In that same package?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I don't think so. In another similar package wrapped up just to keep the dust off were two venetian blinds. I guess they were not longer, more like 36 inches also, that had come from the two windows in my bedroom. I took them down to change, and put up pull blinds in their place.
Mr. JENNER - And had you wrapped them?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - How many were there?
Mrs. PAINE - Two.
Mr. JENNER - And what was their length?
Mrs. PAINE - I think around 36 inches. The width of these windows in the back bedroom.
Mr. JENNER - Let us return to the curtain rods first. Do you still have those curtain rods?
Mrs. PAINE - I believe so.
Mr. JENNER - You believe so, or you know; which?
Mrs. PAINE - I think Michael went to look after the assassination, whether these were still in the garage.
Mr. JENNER - Did you have a conversation with Michael as to whether he did or didn't look?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Why was he looking to see if the curtain rod package was there?
Mrs. PAINE - He was particularly interested in the wrapping, was the wrapping still there, the brown paper.
Mr. JENNER - When did this take place?
Mrs. PAINE - After the assassination, perhaps a week or so later, perhaps when one of the FBI people were out; I don't really recall.
Mr. JENNER - And was the package with the curtain rods found on that occasion?
Mrs. PAINE - It is my recollection it was.
Mr. JENNER - What about the venetian blind package?
Mrs. PAINE - Still there, still wrapped.
Mr. JENNER - You are fully conscious of the fact that that package is still there?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - And to the best of your knowledge, information, and belief the other package, likewise, is there?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Let me ask a question there. After the assassination, at anytime did you go into the garage and look to see if both of these packages were there?
Mrs. PAINE - A week and a half, or a week later.
Senator COOPER - At any time?
Mrs. PAINE - Did I, personally?
Senator COOPER - Have you seen these packages since the assassination?
Mrs. PAINE - It seems to me I recall seeing a package.
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - I don't recall opening it up and looking in carefully. I seem to recall seeing the package
Senator COOPER - Both of them?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Or just one?
Mrs. PAINE - Both.
Senator COOPER - Did you feel them to see if the rods were in there?
Mrs. PAINE - No. I think Michael did, but I am not certain.
Senator COOPER - But you never did, yourself?
Mrs. PAINE - It was not my most pressing--
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - It was not the most pressing thing I had to do at that time.
Senator COOPER - I know that. But you must have read after the assassination the story about Lee Oswald saying, he told Mr. Frazier, I think, that he was carrying some curtain rods in the car?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Senator COOPER - Do you remember reading that?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; I remember reading that.
Senator COOPER - Didn't that lead you-Did it lead you then to go in and see if the curtain rods were there?
Mrs. PAINE - It was all I could do at that point to answer my door, answer my telephone, and take care of my children.
Senator COOPER - I understand you had many things to do.
Mrs. PAINE - So I did not.
Senator COOPER - You never did do it?
Mrs. PAINE - I am not certain whether I specifically went in and checked on that. I recall a conversation with Michael about it and, to the best of my recollection, things looked as I expected to find them looking out there. This package with brown paper was still there.
Mr. JENNER - By any chance, does that package appear in the photograph that you have identified of the interior of your garage?
Mrs. PAINE - I think it is this that is on a shelf almost to the ceiling.
Mr. JENNER - May I get over here, Mr. Chairman?
Mrs. PAINE - Along the west edge of the garage, up here.
Mr. JENNER - In view of this, I think it is of some importance that you mark on Commission Exhibit 429 what appears to you to be the package in which the curtain rods were.
Mrs. PAINE - To the best of my recollection.
Mr. JENNER - Now the witness has by an arrow indicated a shelf very close to the ceiling in the rear of the garage, and an arrow pointing to what appears to be a long package on that shelf, underneath which she has written "Wrapping paper around venetian blinds"--
Mrs. PAINE - "And thin."
Mr. JENNER - What is the next word?
Mrs. PAINE - "Curtain rods."
Mr. JENNER - There were two packages, Mrs. Paine, one with the rods and one with the venetian blinds?
Mrs. PAINE - I can't recall. The rods were so thin they hardly warranted a package of their own, but that is rationalization, as you call it.
Mr. JENNER - You do have a recollection that those rods were a very lightweight metal?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Do you?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. They were not round.
Mr. JENNER - They were flat and slender?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - They were not at all heavy?
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.
Mr. JENNER - They were curved? Were they curved in any respect?
Mrs. PAINE - They curved at the ends to attach to the bracket that held them up on the wall.
Mr. JENNER - May I use the chalk on the board, Mr. Chairman. Perhaps it might be better for you, Mrs. Paine, so I don't influence you. Would you draw a picture of the rods?
Mrs. PAINE - You are looking down from the top. It attaches here, well, over a loop thing on the wall. Looking from the inside, it curves over a slight bit, and then this is recessed.
Mr. JENNER - I am going to have to have you do that over on a sheet of paper. Will you remain standing for the moment. We will give it an exhibit number. But I would like to have you proceed there. What did you say this was, in the lower diagram?
Mrs. PAINE - You are looking down.
Mr. JENNER - Now, where was the break?
Mrs. PAINE - The break?
Mr. JENNER - You said they were extension.
Mrs. PAINE - That is right. When they are up on the window, it would be like that.
Mr. JENNER - You have drawn a double line to indicate what would be seen if you were looking down into the U-shape of the rod?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - The double line indicates what on either side?
Mrs. PAINE - That the lightweight metal, white, turned over, bent around, something less than a quarter of an inch on each side.
Mr. JENNER - Now, would you be good enough to make the same drawing. We will mark that sheet as Commission Exhibit No. 449 upon which the witness is now drawing the curtain rod.
(Commission Exhibit No. 449 was marked for identification.)
Mr. JENNER - While you are doing that, Mrs. Paine, would you be good enough when you return to Irving, Tex., to see if those rods are at hand, and some of our men are going to be in Irving next week. We might come out and take a look at them, and perhaps you might surrender them to us.
Mrs. PAINE - You are perfectly welcome to them.
Mr. JENNER - Would you in that connection, Mrs. Paine do not open the package until we arrive?
Mrs. PAINE - I won't even look, then.
Mr. JENNER - All right. Now, would you mark "A" in the upper elevation and "B" in the lower elevation. The elevation in the drawing you have indicated as "A" is a depiction of what?
Mrs. PAINE - The curtain rod, as you might look at it from the top when it is hanging in its position, when it is placed in position on the window.
Mr. JENNER - And "B"?
Mrs. PAINE - "B" is as it might appear if you could look at it from outside the house; the window.
Mr. JENNER - While the rod was in place?
Mrs. PAINE - While the rod was in place.
Mr. JENNER - You have written to the left-hand side "Place at which it attaches to wall fixture," indicating the butt end of the curved side of the rod?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - And the two oblongs, each of which you have put at the ends of depiction "B," represent the upturned ends of the fixtures at each end?
Mrs. PAINE - Right.
Mr. JENNER - Would you put a little line as to where the break was in the rod.
I offer in evidence, Mr. Chairman, as Commission Exhibit No. 449 the drawing that the witness has just made, and about which she has testified.
Senator COOPER - It will be admitted as part of the evidence.
(Commission Exhibit No. 449 was received in evidence.)
Mr. JENNER - Had there been any conversation between you and Lee Oswald, or between you and Marina, or any conversation taking place in your presence prior to this occasion, in which the subject of curtain rods was mentioned?
Mrs. PAINE - No; there was no such conversation.
Mr. JENNER - Was the subject of curtain rods--had that ever been mentioned during all of these weekends that Lee Oswald had come to your home, commencing, I think you said, with his first return on October 4, 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - It. had not been mentioned.
Mr. JENNER - Never by anybody?
Mrs. PAINE - By anybody.
Mr. JENNER - Had the subject of curtain rods been mentioned even inadvertently, let us say, by some neighbor talking about the subject, as to whether you had some curtain rods you weren't using?
Mrs. PAINE - No.
Mr. JENNER - That might be loaned? I think you had testified that the curtain rods, when unextended, were 36 inches long, approximately?
Mrs. PAINE - That is a guess. I would say, thinking further about it, it must be shorter than that. One went over a window that I am pretty sure was 30 inches wide, and one went over a window that was 42 inches wide, so it had to extend between these. They were identical, and had served at these different windows.
Mr. JENNER - The rods were identical in length when unextended?
Mrs. PAINE - Or when fully extended; yes.
Mr. JENNER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - Or when fully extended.
Mr. JENNER - Or when fully extended; yes. They could be extended to as great as 42 inches?
Mrs. PAINE - At least that. I am just saying what windows they were used for.
Mr. JENNER - If the rods are still available, we will be able to obtain them?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - And we will know exactly their length, extended and unextended. Now, as you think further about it, the rods when not extended, that is, when pushed together, might be but 30 inches long?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Because you recall that you have a 30-inch-wide window.
Mrs. PAINE - I believe it is more that width than 36.
Mr. JENNER - Would you hold up your hands to indicate what you think the width or the length of the rods is when not extended?
Mrs. PAINE - Oh, I don't recall. Maybe like this.
Mr. JENNER - Would you measure that, Mr. Liebeler, please?
Mr. LIEBELER - About 28 inches.
Mr. JENNER - I intend to leave the subject of the curtain rods, gentlemen, if you have any questions
Mr. McCLOY - May I ask a question. Did the FBI question you about the curtain rods any, or the Dallas police officials?
Mrs. PAINE - Not the Dallas police.
Mr. McCLOY - Not the Dallas police?
Mrs. PAINE - No. It is possible the FBI did. I don't recall such question.
Mr. McCLOY - They didn't take any rods from the garage that you are aware of?
Mrs. PAINE - You are aware what the police took. I never did know exactly what they took. I have never heard any mention of the rods having left.
Mr. McCLOY - You are not conscious of the Dallas police ever talking to you about curtain rods?
Mrs. PAINE - Absolutely no.
Mr. McCLOY - But possibly some member of the FBI did?
Mrs. PAINE - Possibly. I can't recall.
Mr. McCLOY - You can't recall?
Mr. JENNER - Did you ever mention to the FBI anything, or anybody else up until recently, the existence of the curtain rods about which you have now testified?
Mrs. PAINE - I have already said Michael and I discussed it.
Mr. JENNER - When?
Mrs. PAINE - A week or two after the assassination would be my guess.
Mr. JENNER - And did you discuss those particular curtain rods about which you have now testified?
Mrs. PAINE - We were particularly interested in seeing if the wrapping paper that we used to wrap these things was there, and it was. I recall that.
Representative FORD - Did Lee Oswald know where you kept this roll of wrapping paper?
Mrs. PAINE - To the best of my knowledge, he did not know where I kept it.
I had never wrapped something when he was around. Neither he nor Marina had ever asked to use this paper or the string that I had.
Representative FORD - Where did you keep it? I don't recall precisely.
Mrs. PAINE - I can be very clear. There is a picture here of a large secretary desk on Commission Exhibit No. 435. It is in the bottom drawer, you see, in that desk. This is not the secretary desk upon which--
Mr. JENNER - The note was found?
Mrs. PAINE - The note was found.
Representative FORD - You kept it in the lower drawer?
Mrs. PAINE - Along with some gum tape and string.
Representative FORD - And this is the section shown on Commission Exhibit 435?
Mrs. PAINE - That is right.
Mr. JENNER - Mr. Reporter, you caught the measurement by Mr. Liebeler, 28 inches. Mrs. Paine, what is your best recollection as to how many curtain rods there were?
Mrs. PAINE - Two, I am certain.
Mr. JENNER - Just two? And you wrapped the package yourself, did you?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - When you and Michael undertook your discussion about curtain rods, did you or did he open up this package?
Mrs. PAINE - I don't recall.
Mr. JENNER - Is it your present best recollection that as far as you know, the package, as far as wrapping is concerned, is in the same condition now as when you wrapped it initially?
Mrs. PAINE - Certainly very similar.
Senator COOPER - What was the answer?
Mrs. PAINE - Certainly very similar. I don't recall making any change.
Mr. JENNER - Is there a possibility that the package was unwrapped at anytime?
Mrs. PAINE - In connection with this inquiry of Michael's; yes.
Mr. JENNER - You think he might have but you don't know.
Mrs. PAINE - Or I might have. I don't recall. I recall that it wasn't something that interested me as much as the other things I had to get done.
Mr. JENNER - But the rods about which you have testified as far as you know are on the shelf in your garage at your home?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Do you recall whether when the FBI discussed this subject with you, if you can recall that, that you advised the FBI of these particular curtain rods?
Mrs. PAINE - I am not perfectly certain that they discussed it with me.
Mr. JENNER - You just have no recollection of any interview with the FBI on this particular subject?
Mrs. PAINE - It seems to me they brought it up, but I don't recall the content nor whether they went out. I certainly think I would remember if I had gone out to the garage with an FBI representative.
Mr. JENNER - But you do not?
Mrs. PAINE - But I do not remember such an occasion.
Mr. JENNER - Unless the members of the Commission have any further questions with respect to the curtain rods, I will return to the afternoon.
Senator COOPER - I want to ask just two questions. Before the assassination, did you know where the package with the curtain rods in it was situated within the garage?
Mrs. PAINE - I gave it no attention but yes, it is my impression that I did go out to see if things were where I expected to find them. They were wrapped in brown paper, the curtain rods and venetian blinds. And found things there. I don't recall that I looked into the package.
Mr. JENNER - You did find the package?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - What was the size of the package in length and width if you can remember at the time you wrapped it?
Mrs. PAINE - I suppose about like this, not closed but just wrapping paper folded over.
Mr. JENNER - Would you hold your hands there please.
Mrs. PAINE - Yes. But by no means a neat package, just enough to keep the dust off.
Mr. LIEBELER - Thirty-two and a half inches.
Senator COOPER - What was the width of the package?
Mrs. PAINE - Like so.
Senator COOPER - That you wrapped?
Mrs. PAINE - Now I am not certain. I am really thinking now of the package with the venetian blind.- I don't recall exactly the package with the rods, whether they were included in this other or whether they warranted a package of their own.
Mr. LIEBELER - The witness indicated a width of approximately 7 1/2 inches.
Senator COOPER - I will ask one other question. The ends of the rod which are at right angles to the long surface, how long? What is their approximate size?
Mrs. PAINE - Two and a half inches to three inches.
Senator COOPER - What?
Mrs. PAINE - Two and a half to three inches.
Monday March 23rd At the Paine Residence, Irving
Mr. Jenner.
Now, Mrs. Paine, one of the things we said we might see is a package that was in your garage containing curtain rods.
Mrs. Paine.
Yes--as you recall.
Mr. Jenner.
You said you would leave that package in precisely the place wherever it was last week when you were in Washington, D.C., and have you touched it since you came home?
Mrs. Paine.
I have not touched it.
Mr. Jenner.
And is it now in the place it was to the best of your recollection on November 21, 1963?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, would you rise and enter the garage and point out in my presence and in the presence of Mr. Howlett where that package is?
(At this point the persons heretofore mentioned entered the garage as stated by Counsel Jenner.)
Mrs. Paine.
It is on a shelf above the workbench. It extends north of the north edge of the workbench.
Mr. Jenner.
Is it the thicker of the two packages wrapped in brown wrapping paper, shorter and thicker?
Mrs. Paine.
You would do well to look at them both.
Mr. Jenner.
Well, what I am going to do first--I'm going to hand you a pointer, and would you point to the package-that you have in mind?
Mrs. Paine.
This, to the best of my recollection, contains venetian blinds.
Mr. Jenner.
The witness is now referring to a package which Mr. Howlett, and I will ask you to measure it in a moment, but which appears to me to be at most about 28 inches long, maybe 30, and about 6 1/2 inches high and about 6 1/2 inches through.
While it is still wrapped in place, Mr. Howlett, would you measure the package and it is a little bit irregular.
Agent HOWLETT. That is 2 feet 11 inches.
Mr. Jenner.
The package is 2 feet 11 inches long and it is resting on a shelf which is apparently a foot down from the ceiling, and the north edge of the package is 5 inches from the outer wall of the storeroom I have described, and Mr. Howlett has--now measured the distance from the shelf on which the package is resting, to the floor, and that is what distance?
Agent HOWLETT. Seven feet and three inches.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, measure the height of the package.
Mrs. Paine.
.While you are up there, measure the one behind you.
Mr. Jenner.
Yes; we will.
Agent HOWLETT. The height of the package is about seven inches.
Mr. Jenner.
And it is how thick through from east to west?
Agent HOWLETT. Seven inches.
Mr. Jenner.
All right. Now, I'll ask Mr. Howlett to take the package down, since he is already up there on top of the bench, and we will open it in the presence of Mrs. Paine and see what it contains.
The package has now been taken down from the shelf in our presence and Mrs. Paine is opening it. Mrs. Paine, and in your presence, Mr. Howlett, what does the package contain?
Mrs. Paine.
It contains two venetian blinds, both of them are 2 feet 6 inches.
Mr. Jenner.
And they are of the metal variety, are they not?
Mrs. Paine.
They are.
Mr. Jenner.
And those blinds are 2 feet 6 inches wide?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, they are wrapped in brown or light-tan wrapping paper?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
Did you have a supply of this particular wrapping paper around your home at that time?
Mrs. Paine.
No.
Mr. Jenner.
From where did you obtain this wrapping paper?
Mrs. Paine.
This must have come around a package or something I had bought. I have never had a supply of this variety.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, John Joe, will you favor Mrs. Paine by putting her package back the way it was?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes--for the record.
Mr. Jenner.
For the record, when we sought to rewrap the package, it has a paster on the outside of Sears, Roebuck & Co., Dallas, No. 4017, and "Will call--M.R. Paine."
Mr. Jenner.
Mrs. Paine has torn from the package some sticky tape.
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
It is wider than the variety we have heretofore identified--is it your recollection that this sticky tape came on this particular package when it was delivered to your home?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
And is this paper the paper in which the blinds came in the first instance?
Mrs. Paine.
These blinds did not come to me from Sears, Roebuck, but that--I used to replace them did. Now, whether the shades I bought came in this package, I have no idea whatever.
Mr. Jenner.
Well, is it your recollection that this paper in which the blinds are now wrapped came from another package that was delivered to you and not a part of a general supply of paper which you had in your home?
Mrs. Paine.
It was certainly not part of a general supply of paper.
Mr. Jenner.
Is it your recollection that the sticky tape that appears on this wrapping was affixed to the package which this is?
Mrs. Paine.
As you said, yes.
Mr. Jenner.
This paper--when delivered to your home, having nothing to do with the curtain rods or the rifle or anything else hereon, is that right?
Mrs. Paine.
That's right.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, we see in back of this package that we have just described a much longer package also wrapped on--in light-tan wrapping paper--at this time a little bit darker, I think, than the package we have just been describing, and Mr. Howlett has now mounted again the work bench and is measuring that package. That package, Mr. Howlett, is also on the shelf.
Agent HOWLETT. The same shelf in behind where the other package was.
Mr. Jenner.
And it is how long?
Agent HOWLETT. Three feet nine inches long, as it is folded now.
Mr. Jenner.
And in general is it a rectangular package?
Agent HOWLETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner.
But its shape is not as well defined as the shorter package we have already described?
Agent HOWLETT. No, sir; it seems to be a little bit bigger at the north end.
Mr. Jenner.
Mrs. Paine, before we open it, what is in that package?
Mrs. Paine.
My best guess would be that it contains two pull blinds which I did have in the southeast bedroom.
Mr. Jenner.
When you say "pull blinds" you mean venetian blinds?
Mrs. Paine.
No; I do not. I mean roll-type.
Mr. Jenner.
Mr. Howlett, would you be good enough to take that package down and we will open it in Mrs. Paine's presence here.
(At this point Agent Howlett complied with the request of Counsel Jenner.)
Mr. Jenner.
It contains, does it not, what you call the pull blinds, and which I, in my vernacular call spring window shades.
Mrs. Paine.
All, right, that's correct, and these are cut to fit the windows in the southeast bedroom.
Mr. Jenner.
Mr. Howlett, there are two of them, one of which is how wide?
Agent HOWLETT. Two feet six inches.
Mr. Jenner.
And the other one is?
Agent HOWLETT. Three feet six inches.
Mr. Jenner.
And Mr. Howlett and Mrs. Paine, these two spring window-shades are the customary type we see on windows, these, however, are white or cream colored, and are plastic?
Mrs. Paine.
That's right.
Mr. Jenner.
And they are opaque?
Mrs. Paine.
That's right.
Mr. Jenner.
Neither is metal?
Mrs. Paine.
No.
Mr. Jenner.
The spring to which the shade itself the plastic shade is attached, is wood, inside of which there is the usual window shade spring.
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
The paper in which these are wrapped likewise contains as did
Mr. Jenner.
the other one an address sticker of Sears, Roebuck & Co., No. 4017, addressed to Michael R. Paine.
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
And so, the wrapping paper in which those two shades are wrapped came from Sears, Roebuck & Co. and not from any roll of paper that you keep in your home?
Mrs. Paine.
That's correct.
Mr. Jenner. Now, are there any other paper-wrapped packages on that shelf?
Mrs. Paine.
No.
Mr. Jenner.
It was your impression as you testified last week that you had some curtain rods on the shelf wrapped in a paper wrapping?
Mrs. Paine.
Well, I testified that.
Mr. Jenner.
That was your impression, was it not?
Mrs. Paine.
And as part of the testimony I said they were very light and might not deserve their own wrapping.
Mr. Jenner.
You, of course you did state it was possible they might not be separately wrapped?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes.
Mr. Jenner.
Is there another shelf below the shelf on which you found the first two packages?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; there is.
Mr. Jenner.
And, Mr. Howlett, that shelf is about how far below the upper one on which we found the two packages?
Agent HOWLETT. About 10 1/2 inches.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, we all see, do we not, peeking up what appears to be a butt end of what we might call a curtain rod, is that correct?
Mrs. Paine.
That's correct.
Mr. Jenner.
Is that correct, Mr. Howlett?
Agent HOWLETT. Yes, sir; that's correct.
Mr. Jenner.
Painted or enameled white?
Agent HOWLETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner.
Would you reach back there and take out what appears to be a curtain rod, Mr. Howlett-- how many do you have there?
Agent HOWLETT. There are two curtain rods, one a white and the other a kind of buff color or cream colored.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, would you please search the rest of that shelf and see if you can find any other curtain rods or anything similar to the curtain rods, and look on the bottom shelves, Mr. Howlett, will you please?
While he is doing that, Mrs. Paine, I notice there is on your garage floor what looks like a file casing you have for documents similar, at least it seems substantially identical to those that we had in Washington last week.
Mrs. Paine.
This is a filing case similar, yes, slightly different in color to one that you had in Washington. It contains madrigal music. It was on November 22 at the apartment where my husband was living.
Agent HOWLETT. I have just finished searching both shelves and I don't find any other curtain rods.
Mr. Jenner.
Mrs. Paine, are the curtain rods that Mr. Howlett has taken down from the lower of the two shelves, the two curtain rods to which you made reference in your testimony before the Commission last week?
Mrs. Paine.
Yes; they are.
Mr. Jenner.
And you know of no other curtain rods, do you, in your garage during the fall of 1963?
Mrs. Paine.
No; I do not.
Mr. Jenner.
And in particular, no other curtain rods in your garage at any time on the 21st or 22d of November 1963?
Mrs. Paine.
None whatsoever.
Mr. Jenner.
May we take these curtain rods and mark them as exhibits and we will return them after they have been placed of record?
Mrs. Paine.
All right.
Mr. Jenner.
Miss Reporter, the cream colored curtain rod, we will mark Ruth Paine Exhibit 275 and the white one as Ruth Paine Exhibit No. 276.
The curtain rods referred to were at this time marked by the reporter as Ruth Paine Exhibit Nos. 275 and 276, for identification.)
Mr. Jenner.
Since we will have the exact physical exhibits we don't have to measure them, but perhaps for somebody who is reading the record, Mr. Howlett, your suggestion that we measure them is not a bad one. Let me describe the configuration of these rods. They are very light weight--what would you say that metal is, Mr. Howlett, tin--heavy tin?
Agent HOWLETT. Yes, sir.
Mr. Jenner.
They are the sliding or extension type, one fitting into the other when closed entirely, measuring from upended tip to upended tip they are----
Agent HOWLETT. The white one is 2 feet 3 1/2 inches.
Mr. Jenner.
And the cream colored one measured in the like fashion?
Agent HOWLETT. It is 2 feet 3 1/2 inches.
Mr. Jenner.
These curtain rods--the ends of each of them are turned. Those ends extending are turned up how many inches?
Agent HOWLETT. About 2 inches measuring from the inside of the curtain rod.
Mr. Jenner.
On the cream colored one, and what about the white one?
Agent HOWLETT. Yes; on the cream colored one and the white one measures about 2 1/2 inches.
Mr. Jenner.
Now, these curtain rods with the ends turned up form a "U," do they not, a long "U"?
Agent HOWLETT. Yes, sir.
Michael Paine Testimony, March 17, WashingtonMr. LIEBELER - Referring to 142. Now, examine after examining both 142 and 364, did you have any paper of that type as far as you know in your garage or at your home in Irving?
Mr. PAINE - Well, most of the things that are paper have been added to the garage since I moved out, so I am not very familiar with them. We stored some rugs in, I think, in polyethylene, but I am not sure all of them were in polyethylene, and there were some curtain rods or something like that which are still there. I don't know how they came.
Mr. LIEBELER - What kind of curtain rods?
Mr. PAINE - These expanding rods that are----
Mr. LIEBELER - And you have no idea where they came from?
Mr. PAINE - Let's see, no, those came down from--I think those were in the house, I guess they weren't bought. I think Ruth took them down because the children were allergic to something, and she was taking them down, took down the curtains, and left only shades. Bought shades, I guess, she bought curtain shades to go up, new shades. That is a question, well, of course, paper could have been--I don't remember any particular, I didn't have any rolls of this kind of paper or a supply of it, wrapping paper.
Mr. LIEBELER - Let's go back to the curtain rods for just a minute. You say they were in the house at the time in Irving when you purchased the house.
Mr. PAINE - Yes, curtain rods came to my mind recently because they are junk that I try to keep propped up on the shelves or above the work bench, and I think they were in our house and there were curtains on them and she took the curtains down to get rid of the fabric that might be holding dust and put up instead some new curtains, new window shades in the bedrooms.
Mr. LIEBELER - Approximately when did she do that, do you remember?
Mr. PAINE - You will have to ask Ruth herself. She put down a new floor, also, getting rid of the old rugs for the same purpose, and I thought it was in the fall, but I can't place when it was.
Mr. LIEBELER - In the fall of 1963?
Mr. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you say the curtain rods are still in the garage?
Mr. PAINE - Yes, I think so.
Mr. LIEBELER - Approximately how long are they?
Mr. PAINE - Well, I think this is, when they expand, I guess the curtain rods themselves are 32 1/2 inches to 3 feet, but the two of them slide together to make a pair, this expanding type just of rod metal.
Mr. LIEBELER - Approximately how long are they, would you say, when they are fitted together and in their collapsed state or their----
Mr. PAINE - As I say, those came out of house or she would not have, I was trying to think of some of the paper she might have had that resembles this, but the thing she bought new would be the shades, the window shades to go in place of those curtain rods.
Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember seeing any paper in the garage that might have been a package in which those shades came?
Mr. PAINE - No, I don't recall any.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you ever have a conversation with your wife about these curtain rods in connection with the assassination?
Mr. PAINE - No. I think we did both read that he had said he was, to Frazier, that he was carrying, maybe it was curtain rods or something to do with windows in my mind.
Mr. LIEBELER - But your wife didn't mention to you that Oswald ever mentioned to her anything about the curtains rods?
Mr. LIEBELER - Now, place yourself in the garage on or about November 21, 22, 1963, or shortly before that time, and tell me everything that you can remember as being in that garage.
Mr. PAINE - Well, there is a bench along, in front of, a fiberglass window panel. That bench is generally covered with boxes, there are boxes underneath that bench. On the end of the bench is a drill press. My recollection is confused by the fact I am much more familiar with it now that I have moved back and I have moved my stuff into that garage, so it is fuzzy in my memory.
Mr. LIEBELER - Were you present on November 22 when the police or the FBI or any other authorities searched the garage?
Mr. PAINE - No, I wasn't.
