BWF and LMR may not have been the only ones who saw LHO with a bag on 11/22/1963

[Alan Ford]

How so?  The question appears to reference the bag Oswald carried that morning.  The WC conclusion was that it contained the rifle and by inference no curtain rods were taken by Oswald from the Paine home.

And the Crime Scene Search Section form which you repeatedly failed to explain makes that inference radically unsafe, for it tells us that 2 curtain rods other than the 2 taken from the Paine garage by Agent Howlett on 23 March 1964 were tested for Mr Oswald's prints! 

[Alan Ford]

From "You are the Jury", David Belin p242.


"Did the bag contain curtain rods?

No curtain rods were discovered in the TSBD Building after the assassination. No curtain rods were taken from the Paine home".

Seems some did not even read the testimony or misrepresented it.

There is no mention in any DPD, FBI or SS report of its having been verified that no curtain rods had been taken from the Paine household. An absurd omission!

In Reclaiming History, Mr Bugliosi imagines the key questions running through Captain Fritz's mind:

"Were any curtain rods found at the Depository, or in Oswald?s room? Did his apartment need curtain rods?"

Notice the question Mr Bugliosi leaves out:

"Were any curtain rods missing from Mrs Paine's garage?"

Maybe it was there in the draft text, but didn't survive proofreading stage! 

[Alan Ford]

Again from Reclaiming History:

"If Oswald, as he claimed, brought curtain rods to work, whatever happened to them? We know from witnesses (on the bus, the cabdriver, and Earlene Roberts) that he wasn?t carrying any long package after he left the Book Depository Building."

But we now know that 2 curtain rods were found and tested for Mr Oswald's prints.

Mr Bugliosi's own logic identifies the place where they must have been found: Texas School Book Depository.

 

[Alan Ford]

From Mr D von Pein's blogspot exploration of the curtain rods issue:

"[...]

5.) No curtain rods were found in the TSBD in the days and weeks after
the assassination. (Warren Commission Exhibit #2640 verifies this fact
via Roy Truly's statement in a September 2, 1964, FBI report.)

6.) Oswald did not take any curtain rods out of the TSBD when he left
that building on 11/22/63. (If he did, he disposed of them somewhere
between the Depository Building on Elm Street and his roominghouse at
1026 N. Beckley Avenue in Oak Cliff, because he definitely did not
enter the roominghouse with any sort of package. If he had, the package
would have been discovered by police.)

[...]"

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/curtain-rods.html

Question for Mr von Pein!

How can your conclusion that no curtain rods were found be considered safe if, as the dates on the document below prove, the 2 curtain rods submitted for testing for Mr Oswald's fingerprints were not the 2 curtain rods taken from the Paine garage by Agent Howlett during Ms Paine's on-the-record testimony of 23 March?



Thanking you, Mr von Pein, for all your tireless efforts to promote Truth and Justice! 

[Colin Crow]

From Mr D von Pein's blogspot exploration of the curtain rods issue:

"[...]

5.) No curtain rods were found in the TSBD in the days and weeks after
the assassination. (Warren Commission Exhibit #2640 verifies this fact
via Roy Truly's statement in a September 2, 1964, FBI report.)

6.) Oswald did not take any curtain rods out of the TSBD when he left
that building on 11/22/63. (If he did, he disposed of them somewhere
between the Depository Building on Elm Street and his roominghouse at
1026 N. Beckley Avenue in Oak Cliff, because he definitely did not
enter the roominghouse with any sort of package. If he had, the package
would have been discovered by police.)

[...]"

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/curtain-rods.html

Question for Mr von Pein!

How can your conclusion that no curtain rods were found be considered safe if, as the dates on the document below prove, the 2 curtain rods submitted for testing for Mr Oswald's fingerprints were not the 2 curtain rods taken from the Paine garage by Agent Howlett during Ms Paine's third on-the-record testimony taking?



Thanking you, Mr von Pein, for all your tireless efforts to promote Truth and Justice! 

Looks to me like you could make a case for the official form you show as being written on in 2 stages. The first in red pen, on March 15, by Day only. Interestingly the results may have been written at the time the form was being filled. No one was originally listed as entering the rods (ie blank) or it has been whited out. The second entry occurred on 24 March and has been signed by Howlett (twice) and Day in blue pen. The real questions are, where were the rods found on or before March 15? Who found them? Why were they considered important to test for Oswald's prints on March 15? What possible use testing of rods from Ruth Paine's garage for Oswald's prints have been to the investigation? If positive.....so what?

[Alan Ford]

Looks to me like you could make a case for the official form you show as being written on in 2 stages. The first in red pen, on March 15, by Day only. Interestingly the results may have been written at the time the form was being filled. No one was originally listed as entering the rods (ie blank) or it has been whited out. The second entry occurred on 24 March and has been signed by Howlett (twice) and Day in blue pen.

One problem with this is that the other version of the form----which became a Commission Exhibit----contains the first Howlett signature (submission of evidence) but not the second!

The real questions are, where were the rods found on or before March 15? Who found them? Why were they considered important to test for Oswald's prints on March 15? What possible use testing of rods from Ruth Paine's garage for Oswald's prints have been to the investigation? If positive.....so what?

Exactly! 

[Walt Cakebread]

There is no mention in any DPD, FBI or SS report of its having been verified that no curtain rods had been taken from the Paine household. An absurd omission!

In Reclaiming History, Mr Bugliosi imagines the key questions running through Captain Fritz's mind:

"Were any curtain rods found at the Depository, or in Oswald?s room? Did his apartment need curtain rods?"

Notice the question Mr Bugliosi leaves out:

"Were any curtain rods missing from Mrs Paine's garage?"

Maybe it was there in the draft text, but didn't survive proofreading stage! 

While I have no problem accepting that a couple of curtain rods were found somewhere in or near the TSBD that caused someone to suspect that they might be the curtain rods that Frazier said that Lee told him he had in the flimsy brown paper sack that morning.

And I suspect that it was a TSBD employee like Harold Norman, or Bonnie Ray Williams ( just as an example) who discovered them and told SS agent Howlett that he knew where some curtain rod were hidden. 

How could anybody know if they were curtain rods missing from the Paines garage....??   Ruth Paine may have been able to state the number of curtain rods that she had stored in the garage but ... Who could verify that number was accurate??   

"Were any curtain rods missing from Mrs Paine's garage?"

How could the answer be established with 100% certainty?