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Author Topic: The assassin's lunch  (Read 11254 times)

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 10:17:28 AM »
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November 24th

« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 10:20:51 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 10:17:28 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 10:30:59 AM »
On Monday the 25th Day returned to the 6th floor to process boxes and take photos. Finally the owner of the chicken lunch is identified. Bonnie Ray admits the lunch was his. Day is only vaguely aware of the bag's final resting place (with bones and unfinished piece inside) after it had been moved to that position on the 22nd, processed by Studebaker by the two-wheeler and taken to HQ by Johnson about 3pm.


Mr. McCLOY. On the crime scene, that is, on the sixth floor, did you notice any chicken bones or chicken remnants of a chicken sandwich or lunch or the whereabouts, if you did see them?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; there was a sack of some chicken bones and a bottle brought into the identification bureau. I think I still have that sack and bottle down there. The chicken bones, I finally threw them away that laid around there. In my talking to the men who were working on that floor, November 25, they stated, one of them stated, he had eaten lunch over there.
Mr. McCLOY. Someone other than Oswald?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; so I discarded it, or disconnected it with being with Oswald. Incidentally, Oswald's fingerprints were not on the bottle. I checked that.
Mr. McCLOY. They were not on the bottle?
Mr. DAY. No, sir.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 04:49:32 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 11:00:19 AM »
On Tuesday the 26th November Harold Norman is interviewed for the first time.



As with Jarman's initial statements there was no mention of Williams joining he and Jarman just before the shooting, just that the three were watching the motorcade "about noon" from the fifth floor. Interestingly, he stated that after the first shot he stuck his head out the window and looked upward and pulled back inside after particles fell on him. There were two subsequent shots. They ran to the west end  but he returned to the original position at some later time. He did not recall seeing Oswald at any time that day.



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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 11:00:19 AM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2018, 11:23:36 AM »
December 2 Secret Service Interview
In early December Williams was interviewed by the Secret Service and the following appeared as part the Secret Service Report 491 (WCD87).



In this interview less than two weeks after the assassination Williams again recalls the "elevator race" as they broke for lunch and Oswald calling for the lift. On the 6th floor he sat at windows "in the centre of the building". A Dr Pepper bottle and chicken bones  (no mention of a lunch bag) were left together on the floor. He didn't see or hear anyone and only ate his lunch for a few minutes. The lunch was "finished", not partially eaten, and he left immediately for the 5th floor before 12.15pm. (Note 12.15 is mentioned specifically!). He gets the position he was in on the 5th floor wrong. Heard only 2 shots coming from 6th floor but did not hear shells and bolt action. They went to west side windows and discussed what they should do.
A policeman was seen near the stairway but Williams did not know if he was going up or down (note no mention of arrival by the elevator now). After 5 minutes they took the stairs down.

This interview  essentially provided a similar story to the one he told the FBI the day after the assassination except for some minor variance and added details. He described the lunch consisting of a chicken bone sandwich and a Dr Pepper. Significantly he is sure he left before 12.15pm. No doubt there has been much talk between the TSBD workers of the events of November 22 in the days since it occurred. Apparently he has now abandoned the early idea of moving the lunch break forward by 20 minutes. By this time the others members of the floor laying crew have been interviewed and they generally agreed that the elevator race occurred at about 11.50am.  Remember that Carl Day tells us he spoke with the worker who ate the chicken lunch on November 25th, after Williams initial FBI interview. Day may have (inadvertently) provided a description of the rough position of the chicken and bottle as found by Studebaker after 2pm on November 22 during that discussion. He may not be aware that the bones were found in the sack.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 04:54:34 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2018, 12:05:13 PM »
Jarman was interviewed by the SS in the first week of December. His statement formed part of WC document 87.




Strangely, in this report it strangely states he was working with the floor laying crew. Again he saw Oswald take the elevator up sometime after 11.30am. The floor laying crew came down just before noon. After eating his lunch he went with Williams and Jarman to fifth floor.  He heard three shots but did not hear shells and bolt. They ran to the to the windows on the west side of the fifth floor after the shots. They discussed what they should do as they knew shots came from above and decided it was too dangerous to go to 6th floor. They waited 5 minutes before taking the stairs the  down. He did not see the policeman (Baker) but remembered a woman on the fourth floor looking out the window.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 04:56:13 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2018, 12:05:13 PM »


Offline Colin Crow

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2018, 01:20:15 PM »
Harold Norman also provides an affidavit to the SS on December the 4th

AFFIDAVIT
State of Texas
County of Dallas
City of Dallas
I Harold Norman, wish to make the following statement to Special Agents William Carter and Arthur W. Blake, United States Secret Service.
I am 25 years of age, and I live at 4858 Beulah Street, Dallas, Texas. I do not have a telephone at my residence. I have been employed as an order filler at the Texas School Book Depository, 411 Elm Street, Dallas, Texas for about three years.
I was acquainted with Lee Oswald during the time that he was employed at this company, but I never did get to know him well. I have spoken to him briefly to say "Hello" or in connection with my work, but I never carried on any conversations with him. He did not mix with the employees and did not appear to want to make friends with me or any of the others. I never saw him at any time other than in the building at work.
On the 22nd of November, 1963, to the best of my memory, the last time I saw him was about 10:00 A.M. when we were both working on the first floor of the building. I did not speak to him at that time.
About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me. We took a position in the south-east corner of the building on the fifth floor and I was looking out the window which is closest to the east end of the building overlooking Elm Street.
Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I also could hear the bolt action of the rifle. I saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me. I saw all of the people down on the street rut towards the west side of the building, so I went to that side with Williams and Jarman, and looked out the west side window. We discussed the shots, and where they had come from and decided we better go down stairs. We walked down the stairs to the first floor and did not see anyone else on the stairway as we went down. From the time of the shots until we started down-stairs was about five minutes.
I have read over the above statement and it is the truth to the best of my knowledge.
/s/Harold Norman
Harold Norman
Subscribed and sworn to before me this 4th day of December, 1963.
/s/William N. Carter
William N. Carter, Special Agent U.S. Secret Service

Secret Service Report extracted from CD87

Norman now recalled sighting Oswald about 10am on the first floor. After eating his lunch he went with Jarman and Williams to the fifth floor about 12.15pm. They went to the SE corner to watch the motorcade. After the first shot he stuck his head out the window as it appeared to be from directly above his position. He heard three shots and they ran to the west side of the building. They discussed what to do and eventually left the building about 5 minutes later via the stairs.
By the middle of January the problem of Rowland's time of 12.15pm for the sighting of a gunman on the sixth floor must have been an issue for the investigators. Williams had told of eating lunch on the sixth floor by the day after the assassination, but we have statements provided from both Norman and Jarman that Williams accompanied them on the trip to the fifth floor.



« Last Edit: February 23, 2018, 04:58:30 AM by Colin Crow »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 01:58:33 PM »
On Monday the 25th Day returned to the 6th floor to process boxes and take photos. Finally the owner of the chicken lunch is identified. Bonnie Ray admits the lunch was his. Day is only vaguely aware of the bag's final resting place (with bones and unfinished piece inside) after it had been moved to that position on the 22nd.


Mr. McCLOY. On the crime scene, that is, on the sixth floor, did you notice any chicken bones or chicken remnants of a chicken sandwich or lunch or the whereabouts, if you did see them?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; there was a sack of some chicken bones and a bottle brought into the identification bureau. I think I still have that sack and bottle down there. The chicken bones, I finally threw them away that laid around there. In my talking to the men who were working on that floor, November 25, they stated, one of them stated, he had eaten lunch over there.
Mr. McCLOY. Someone other than Oswald?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; so I discarded it, or disconnected it with being with Oswald. Incidentally, Oswald's fingerprints were not on the bottle. I checked that.
Mr. McCLOY. They were not on the bottle?
Mr. DAY. No, sir.

Incidentally, Oswald's fingerprints were not on the bottle. I checked that.

So Lt. Day KNEW without any doubt that someone other than Lee Oswald had been there in what they imagined to be a sniper's nest.

IOW...  They thought that JFK had been murdered by someone firing from the "Sniper's Nest" and yet Lt. Day didn't bother to identify the prints on the bottle.....that he knew were not Lee Oswald's.

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Re: The assassin's lunch
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2018, 01:58:33 PM »