Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members

Author Topic: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda  (Read 26375 times)

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2019, 11:00:42 PM »
Advertisement
Does anybody have any testimony or an affidavit where Frazier says he left the stairs prior to going back into the TSBD and going downstairs to eat his couple of all important cheese sandwiches? When did Frazier have the opportunity to see Oswald outside after the shooting?

None of Mr B. Lovelady's official statements support his being outside on the steps at the time Messrs Hughes & Martin are filming, yet.... there he is!

Mr Frazier kept something hidden for nearly 40 years. And then he revealed it.

He has been keeping something else hidden for 55 years. One can only hope he will see his way to revealing it before he passes.

Thumb1:

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2019, 11:00:42 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2019, 11:11:41 PM »
None of Mr B. Lovelady's official statements support his being outside on the steps at the time Messrs Hughes & Martin are filming, yet.... there he is!

Mr Frazier kept something hidden for nearly 40 years. And then he revealed it.

He has been keeping something else hidden for 55 years. One can only hope he will see his way to revealing it before he passes.

Thumb1:

He has been keeping something else hidden for 55 years. One can only hope he will see his way to revealing it before he passes.

I'll assume that you're referring to the paper bag.....   Personally I don't believe that Frazier saw Lee with an extra long paper bag that morning....

He might have seen a bag that was a bit longer than the usual lunch sack, but it was not even the 24 inch length that he said he saw.   

But in being fair....I can't blame him for trying to keep himself out of the fire.   However He is tuck with the story of seeing Lee carrying a long paper bag, and he dare not recant that tale.....because if he does....They'll get him for lying to the authorities.....

Offline Alan Ford

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4820
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2019, 11:18:26 PM »
He has been keeping something else hidden for 55 years. One can only hope he will see his way to revealing it before he passes.

But in being fair....I can't blame him for trying to keep himself out of the fire.   However He is stuck with the story of not seeing Lee carrying a long paper bag on the front steps at the time of the shooting, and he dare not recant that tale.....because if he does....They'll get him for lying to the authorities.....

 Thumb1:

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2019, 11:18:26 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2019, 11:24:49 PM »
Thumb1:

So You believe that BWF said that he did NOT see Lee on the front steps at the time of the shooting.?? Do I have that right mr Ford?

I would agree completely ....Because Frazier would have to be a very strange dude to be looking backward over his shoulder to see if Lee Oswald was on the Steps when all hell is breaking loose in front of him....

Offline Steve Logan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2019, 11:56:49 PM »
He has been keeping something else hidden for 55 years. One can only hope he will see his way to revealing it before he passes.

I'll assume that you're referring to the paper bag.....   Personally I don't believe that Frazier saw Lee with an extra long paper bag that morning....

He might have seen a bag that was a bit longer than the usual lunch sack, but it was not even the 24 inch length that he said he saw.   

But in being fair....I can't blame him for trying to keep himself out of the fire.   However He is stuck with the story of seeing Lee carrying a long paper bag, and he dare not recant that tale.....because if he does....They'll get him for lying to the authorities.....

So you've added another to your waiting line of threatened guillotine victims? What's the Federal and/or Texas statue of limitations on perjury ? 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #100 on: February 25, 2019, 11:56:49 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3725
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2019, 03:18:20 AM »
Quote from: Jerry Freeman on February 24, 2019, 01:37:53 PM
    "I meant Fritz's notes. Go have another [cup] of coffee."
 
Apology accepted!  Thumb1:
I'm all thumbs at typing [and drinking coffee with the other hand] Regarding reply #50...Can you expand on that? Where do you really think Oswald was when the shots were fired? Final answer.
So You believe that BWF said that he did NOT see Lee on the front steps at the time of the shooting.?? Do I have that right mr Ford? I would agree completely ....Because Frazier would have to be a very strange dude to be looking backward over his shoulder to see if Lee Oswald was on the Steps when all hell is breaking loose in front of him....
I suggested earlier that.. who would notice Oswald when President Kennedy was passing right in front of them?
 
DVP suggested...Reply #10
Quote
But they couldn't just simply TEAR UP AND THROW AWAY the original affidavit that says "drinking a Coke" and write up a new one, could they? No, they wanted to KEEP that document (and not even cross out the word "Coke" entirely, which was another possibility if they wanted to HIDE the Coke).
And in Reply #27.....  https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11921&relPageId=2
I don't think Hoover initially actually read that document. Do we think he thoroughly examined every single sheet of paper that may have crossed his desk? He signed [or his signature was stamped] on the cover sheet and passed on to the Commission people.
I also don't think the Commissioners read it or their staff scrutinized every word. It just showed up as a response to a request asking where everyone was located in that lunchroom encounter. Regarding the Baker note ...also written was -- "On the second  xxxxxxxxx" and then crossed out was?... I believe 'or third floor'. It was crossed out and initialed. The lunchroom was not on the third floor.

Offline Steve Logan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 286
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2019, 12:10:07 PM »
Frazier never states that he left the stairs. He says he stayed on the steps for a few minutes then went in and went down to the basement. There is no way Frazier saw Oswald "coming up Houston"  if he's being truthful. So where did Frazier actually see Oswald? Film shows Baker hitting the area in front of the steps while Frazier , who states he never saw Baker at all, is still standing on the steps. There are people in the front of the TSBD looking up to the upper floors of the building already before Baker is on the steps. Frazier is statuesque like a dazed nincompoop on the steps in front of the doors while numerous people are in the process of going back into the TSBD where something has occurred to cause people to look up to the windows. Frazier lied, Baker has no idea how long it took from his hearing the shots, parking his bike, running to the building , up the steps , attempting to catch an elevator to no avail then taking the stairs to the second floor lunchroom. All this in 90 seconds?  BS: BS: BS: The foundation of information that some of you internet detectives are utilizing is as bogus as the conclusions you have arrived at.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2019, 12:10:07 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7322
Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2019, 07:36:39 PM »
Ptm Baker had already given his testimony to the Warren Commission but for some unknown reason the FBI had him come in, sit down and hand write another affidavit just before the Commission's works went into print. This document was entered as CE-3076.
In his testimony, the Coke machine was mentioned but there was no mention of Oswald drinking a beverage.
However in his first mention of the lunchroom encounter Baker stated that they [He and Truly] had made their way up to the third or forth floor before Oswald was encountered. That seems rather puzzling. By the time he testified though, he had learned to count to two.
 "Mr. Belin - What happened?"
Mr. BAKER -" As I came out to the second floor there, Mr. Truly was ahead of me, and as I come out I was kind of scanning, you know, the rooms, and I caught a glimpse of this man walking away from this--I happened to see him through this window in this door. I don't know how come I saw him, but I had a glimpse of him coming down there."         
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/baker_m3.htm
Mr Baker had mentioned that Oswald was drinking a coke in earlier interviews. Apparently this could have been the reasoning for the last minute affidavit. 
 
 The words drinking a Coke are crossed out. I suppose it seemed a bit much to have to fit all that in after an alleged super dive from the sixth floor.

The original topic of this thread was..... about the affidavit that was written by an FBI agent under the guise that DPD officer Baker had recanted his testimony about seeing Lee Oswald "drinking a coke" in the second floor lunchroom just seconds after the shots were fired. 

At the time that Baker wrote his original affidavit on 11/22/63 nobody knew that the proposed THEORY was invalid.   Nobody was  aware that the timing involved in attempting to prove the validity the THEORY that the Lee Oswald had fired from the SE corner window, would be shown to be impossible by attempts to "re-enact" the crime.   That THEORY proposed that Lee Oswald ( who proclaimed he was a "patsy" and  innocent) had fired a rifle from the SE corner window on the sixth floor and then made a mad dash to the lunchroom on the second floor of the TSBD, where he was seen calmly drinking a coke by DPD officer Marrion Baker less than 90 seconds after the first shot was fired.

Weeks later in attempting to duplicate the feat that was proposed in the THEORY it was discovered that Lee Osweald could NOT have committed the crime because there simply was not enough time between the first shot of the rifle and the Baker's  encounter with Lee in the lunchroom. Lee simply could not have reached the lunchroom before Baker had reached the lunchroom ..... That was a FACT.   However the commission that had been created by Lyndon Johnson , the man who had leaped into the most powerful seat in government, immediately following the murder, refused to accept that cold hard FACT.....so they immediately started cutting corners in an attempt to cut the elapsed time of imaginary actions of Lee Oswald. The first thing that had to go was the location of the rifle....

That rifle had been found BURIED beneath heavy boxes of books near the top of the stairs in the NW corner of the building.   And Not only was the rifle BURIED BENEATH boxes of books, it was 15' 4" from the north wall of the building which made it out of reach for the proposed assassin as he supposedly dashed by as he fled from the sixth floor.   LBJ's agents realized that it would have taken several minutes for the rifle to be hidden as it had been found, so they moved the location of the rifle closer to the stairs and simply inserted it between boxes of books and snapped pictures that were presented as authentic pictures of the scene. 
But even that bit of deception was not enough to allow Lee Oswald to have reached the second floor lunchroom ahead of Marrion Baker who had said that he saw Lee calmly drinking a coke.  If Lee had had enough time to buy a coke and had been drinking it, then that would have required that he had to have arrived at least thirty seconds before Baker arrived..... And there simply was not enough time available in the proposed THEORY   

The problem arose when LBJ's agents started reviewing their work prior to the publication of the evidence.   In reviewing that evidence they recognized that they could not simply burn Baker's affidavit, and claim that he had never told Chief Curry that he'd seen the murderous villain  Oswald calmly drinking a coke after the shooting.   The DPD had originally attempted to paint the image of Lee Oswald, as a mad man who could toast his feat of murder, by calmly drinking a Coca-Cola, and that story was published for the public.  Thus They were forced to try to find some other way to expunge that "drinking a coke" from the record.... 

That's when one of LBJ's agent hit on the idea of creating another Baker affidavit .   An affidavit that mentioned the act of drinking a coke but then expunged that entry by a simple crossing out of the words but still leaving them readable....   Sure, they could have torn up that affidavit and rewrote it and left out the "Drinking a coke" entry...but that was not the intent.  Or they could have blacked out the words completely , but the whole idea behind the phony affidavit was to expunge the "drinking a coke"





« Last Edit: February 26, 2019, 07:45:56 PM by Walt Cakebread »