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Author Topic: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda  (Read 9908 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #110 on: February 24, 2019, 11:36:49 AM »
The unambiguous words in Hosty's notes 
Remain obscure.
 

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #111 on: February 24, 2019, 12:39:56 PM »
Remain obscure.

Indeed!

"Then went outside"----maybe Mr Oswald meant the Depository roof?

"to watch"----maybe Mr Oswald went up to the roof to pick up his watch which he had left there earlier in the day?

"P. Parade"----maybe "Parade" is actually "Paracle", i.e. short for "Paraclete"?

In short, it is at least as likely that Mr Oswald told Captain Fritz he slipped up to the roof to pick up his watch and meditate p[rayerfully on the] Paracle[te]'s promise that time could be transcended as that Mr Oswald told Captain Fritz he went outside to watch the Presidential parade.

If only Agent Hosty had used clear language!   :'(

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #112 on: February 24, 2019, 01:05:45 PM »
Thank you, Mr Cakebread!  Thumb1:

"Hosty is the only person who recorded that Lee went outside to watch the President's Parade...."
-----------My point entirely!

Alan, let's examine Hosty's scribbled note....We can compare it with Willie Fritz's and James Bookhout's notes.....  because they were also present and heard Lee's replies. It would be very helpful if you'd present all of the notes as Hosty wrote them.   Because I'm now skeptical that Hosty wrote them during the interrogation, and I'm thinking that these notes that you've posted were actually written by James Bookhout.  The chronology of the events as they are recorded is important.   

O(swald) stated that he was present for work at the TSBD the morning of 11/22/63 and at noon went to lunch. He went to second floor to get a Coca- Cola to eat with lunch and returned to first floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch the P(resident's) parade.

"and at noon went to lunch"---The word "noon" does not mean precisely 12:00 O'clock, and I think that you'll agree that Lee did not go to lunch at 12:00 O'clock, Because all of the other employees stopped work at about 11:50 and climbed aboard the elevators and left him behind on the fifth floor. They then went to the first floor and washed up for lunch, and then some of them sat down in the Domino room and ate their lunches, and they were there in the D room until at least 12:15. ...So we don't know  at what time Lee went to the first floor, but we can assume that it must have been after 12:15.  So Hosty's note does not mean that Lee went to lunch at 12:00 O'clock. 

"He went to second floor to get a Coca-Cola to eat with lunch and returned to first floor to eat lunch."[/i---   We don't know if Lee started eating his lunch immediately, or perhaps looked at the newspaper for a few minutes before opening his lunch sack.....But since Hosty wrote that he went to the second floor lunchroom to buy a coke to drink with his lunch we must assume that he bought the coke BEFORE eating his lunch.  and THEN AFTER buying the coke he returned to the Domino Room and ate his lunch and drank the Coca Cola.

'He then went outside to watch the President's parade".....   We know that this chronology is contradictory to the notes that Hosty himself published in his book Assignment: Oswald ....  ( Those notes are posted in this thread...see link below)

And by 99% of the accounts....Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom after he'd bought the coke ......

What say you?





« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 01:46:30 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #113 on: February 24, 2019, 01:37:53 PM »
Remain obscure.
I meant Fritz's notes. Go have another of coffee.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #114 on: February 24, 2019, 01:47:28 PM »
Alan, let's examine Hosty's scribbled note....We can compare it with Willie Fritz's and James Bookhout's notes.....  because they were also present and heard Lee's replies. It would be very helpful if you'd present the all of the notes as Hosty wrote them.   Because I'm now skeptical that Hosty wrote them during the interrogation, and I'm thinking that these notes that you've posted were actually written by James Bookhout.  The chronology of the events as they are recorded them is important.   

O(swald) stated that he was present for work at the TSBD the morning of 11/22/63 and at noon went to lunch. He went to second floor to get a Coca- Cola to eat with lunch and returned to first floor to eat lunch. Then went outside to watch the P(resident's) parade.

"and at noon went to lunch"---The word "noon" does not mean precisely 12:00 O'clock, and I think that you'll agree that Lee did not go to lunch at 12:00 O'clock, Because all of the other employees stopped work at about 11:50 and climbed aboard the elevators and left him behind on the fifth floor. They then went to the first floor and washed up for lunch, and then some of them sat down in the Domino room and ate their lunches, and they were there in the D room until at least 12:15. ...So we don't know  at what time Lee went to the first floor, but we can assume that it must have been after 12:15.  So Hosty's note does not mean that Lee went to lunch at 12:00 O'clock. 

"He went to second floor to get a Coca-Cola to eat with lunch and returned to first floor to eat lunch."[/i---   We don't know if Lee started eating his lunch immediately, or perhaps looked at the newspaper for a few minutes before opening his lunch sack.....But since Hosty wrote that he went to the second floor lunchroom to buy a coke to drink with his lunch we must assume that he bought the coke BEFORE eating his lunch.  and THEN AFTER buying the coke he returned to the Domino Room and ate his lunch and drank the Coca Cola.

'He then went outside to watch the President's parade".....   We know that this chronology is contradictory to the notes that Hosty himself published in his book Assignment: Oswald ....  ( Those notes are posted in this thread)

And by 99% of the accounts....Baker and Truly encountered Lee in the second floor lunchroom after he'd bought the coke ......

What say you?

It is quite inaccurate to state that 99% of the accounts point to a Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter in the 2nd fl lunchroom!
-------------Officer Baker's 11/22 affidavit
-------------What DPD were telling the press 11/22
-------------What Mr O Campbell was telling the press 11/22
-------------What Mr Oswald was telling Captain Fritz 11/22
-------------The joint interrogation report written by Agents Bookhout & Hosty 11/22
-------------Inspector Harry D. Holmes Warren Commission testimony ("First floor. Front entrance... Vestibule")

The 2nd fl lunchroom encounter was invented the evening of 11/22.

Now! There are two bombshells in the Hosty note:

Bombshell 1: Mr Oswald, far from confirming a 2nd fl lunchroom incident, spoke only of buying a coke up there before the motorcade
Bombshell 2: Mr Oswald, far from placing himself in the domino room at the time of the motorcade, spoke of having gone outside to watch the motorcade

Your LHO timeline:
1. Breaks for lunch about noon
2. Buys coke in 2nd fl lunchroom
3. Returns to first floor to eat lunch

Correct so far!  Thumb1:

But! What happens next is not that Mr Oswald decides---------at what just so happens to be the very time the shooting is taking place---------to go back up for a second coke!

No! He hears the commotion/excitement out front as the motorcade approaches Elm Street, runs down to the front entrance and steps "outside to watch P. Parade".

He tells all this freely to Captain Fritz on 11/22/63. A decision is made to bury his claim in obfuscation, omission, misrepresentation---------and an excursus into outright fiction-writing (2nd fl lunchroom incident). Mr Oswald's death makes that decision a whole lot easier to implement.

Not until February 2019 will Mr Oswald finally be granted a chance to tell his own side of the story! There is an all too obvious reason for that, and years of attachment to the lunchroom story should not blind one to that reason.

Sorry, Mr Cakebread, but the inconvenient data in the Hosty notes cannot be wished away.

 Thumb1:


« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 02:08:42 PM by Alan Ford »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #115 on: February 24, 2019, 01:49:29 PM »
I meant Fritz's notes. Go have another of coffee.

Apology accepted!  Thumb1:

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #116 on: February 24, 2019, 02:02:36 PM »
I meant Fritz's notes. Go have another of coffee.


These notes are NOT written by Hosty....I believe they were written by James Bookhout.....

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #117 on: February 24, 2019, 02:13:34 PM »
It is quite inaccurate to state that 99% of the accounts point to a Baker-Oswald-Truly encounter in the 2nd fl lunchroom!
-------------Officer Baker's 11/22 affidavit
-------------What DPD were telling the press 11/22
-------------What Mr O Campbell was telling the press 11/22
-------------What Mr Oswald was telling Captain Fritz 11/22
-------------The joint interrogation report written by Agents Bookhout & Hosty 11/22
-------------Inspector Harry D. Holmes Warren Commission testimony ("First floor. Front entrance... Vestibule")

The 2nd fl lunchroom encounter was invented the evening of 11/22.

Now! There are two bombshells in the Hosty note:

Bombshell 1: Mr Oswald, far from confirming a 2nd fl lunchroom incident, spoke only of buying a coke up there before the motorcade
Bombshell 2: Mr Oswald, far from placing himself in the domino room at the time of the motorcade, spoke of having gone outside to watch the motorcade

Your LHO timeline:
1. Breaks for lunch about noon
2. Buys coke in 2nd fl lunchroom
3. Returns to first floor to eat lunch

Correct so far!  Thumb1:

But! What happens next is not that Mr Oswald decides---------at what just so happens to be the very time the shooting is taking place---------to go back up for a second coke!

No! He hears the commotion/excitement out front as the motorcade approaches Elm Street, runs down to the front entrance and steps "outside to watch P. Parade".

He tells all this freely to Captain Fritz on 11/22/63. A decision is made to bury his claim in obfuscation, omission, misrepresentation---------and an excursus into outright fiction-writing (2nd fl lunchroom incident). Mr Oswald's death makes that decision a whole lot easier to implement.

Not until February 2019 will Mr Oswald finally be granted a chance to tell his own side of the story! There is an all too obvious reason for that, and years of attachment to the lunchroom story should blind one to that reason.

Sorry, Mr Cakebread, but the inconvenient data in the Hosty notes cannot be wished away.

 Thumb1:

These notes were NOT written by Hosty.....They were written by James Bookhout.....


On page 613 of WR there is a copy of James Bookhout's typed report (see link below)....In that report he makes the same erroneous statement that he made in his scribbled notes....EXCEPT in the typed report he corrects himself and instead of saying the Lee went to outside to watch the P parade, he wrote....
Quote... "Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed the building"...unquote

https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0319a.htm
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 02:55:35 PM by Walt Cakebread »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #118 on: February 24, 2019, 02:59:21 PM »
These notes were NOT written by Hosty.....They were written by James Bookhout.....


On page 613 of WR there is a copy of James Bookhout's typed report ....In that report he makes the same erroneous statement that he made in his scribbled notes....EXCEPT in the typed report he corrects himself and instead of saying the Lee went to outside to watch the P parade, he wrote....
Quote... "Oswald claimed to be on the first floor when President John F. Kennedy passed the building"...unquote

Incorrect! The report you quote from is not 'James Bookhout's typed report', it is the typed joint report of Jameses Hosty & Bookhout.

To dismiss the words "Then went outside to watch P. Parade" as the "erroneous statement" in the "scribbled notes", and to see nothing at all suspicious in the fact that it got translated to the much vaguer "on the first floor" in the typed joint report, only to be disappeared completely in the subsequent solo Bookhout report, is merely to show that your mind is completely closed to new evidence.

You're free to continue believing in the lunchroom incident, Mr Cakebread, but at least be clear about what that belief now entails:
------------Mr Oswald lied when he told Captain Fritz he bought that Coca Cola before the motorcade
------------Hosty, Bookhout et al's systematic suppression of Mr Oswald's claim is of no evidentiary value.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #119 on: February 24, 2019, 03:14:28 PM »
Incorrect! The report you quote from is not 'James Bookhout's typed report', it is the typed joint report of Jameses Hosty & Bookhout.

To dismiss the words "Then went outside to watch P. Parade" as the "erroneous statement" in the "scribbled notes", and to see nothing at all suspicious in the fact that it got translated to the much vaguer "on the first floor" in the typed joint report, only to be disappeared completely in the subsequent solo Bookhout report, is merely to show that your mind is completely closed to new evidence.

You're free to continue believing in the lunchroom incident, Mr Cakebread, but at least be clear about what that belief now entails:
------------Mr Oswald lied when he told Captain Fritz he bought that Coca Cola before the motorcade
------------Hosty, Bookhout et al's systematic suppression of Mr Oswald's claim is of no evidentiary value.

Alan...You're being a fool......

 

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