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Author Topic: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda  (Read 8361 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2019, 06:19:19 AM »
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What is this thread about, again? What is the expected outcome, in the best of all possible worlds, of the Oswald out in front obsession?

Hello Mr Scully!  Thumb1:

I guess some of us less sophisticated researchers hold the accused assassin's location at the time of the assassination to be a rather important issue.

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2019, 06:19:19 AM »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2019, 07:36:35 AM »
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Thank you for your clear answer, Mr von Pein [sic]Thumb1:

If Mr Oswald did indeed indeed confirm the 2nd floor lunchroom incident, then how do we explain this from Agent Hosty?



Did Mr Oswald tell Captain Fritz he went to the 2nd fl lunchroom to buy a coke, came downstairs to eat his lunch, went out front to watch the parade, then (just after the shooting) went to the 2nd fl lunchroom to buy a coke, came downstairs to eat his lunch, went out front?

Well, I'm not a mind-reader, so all I can do is provide my best guess on this. And I'm basing this "best guess" on the fact that in none of the final typed-up reports of any of the people who heard Oswald being interrogated by Captain Fritz (Bookhout, Hosty, Holmes, Kelley, and Fritz himself) do we find anything about Oswald saying he went "outside to watch the Presidential parade".

So my best guess is:

I think James Hosty's "went outside to watch P. Parade" note was very likely referring to a point in time that was AFTER the assassination, not before (even though Hosty used the words "P[residential] Parade"). That note is likely referring to the "out with Bill Shelley in front" situation (which appears in Captain Fritz' notes).

And that "out with Shelley" chronology, according to James Bookhout's solo FBI report that appears on Page 619 of the Warren Report, is clearly something that occurred after the assassination and after Oswald's encounter with the policeman on the second floor.

With respect to why there are two separate FBI reports regarding some of this same information, well, I think it's quite possible that the two FBI agents involved in the first report (Hosty and Bookhout), after filing that first report (dictated on Nov. 23), realized that a relevant and important piece of information (the 2nd-floor lunchroom encounter) had not been included in that first joint Hosty/Bookhout report. Therefore, the necessity arose for a second report to be written which would include the information about Oswald being stopped by the police on the second floor (which became the "solo Bookhout" report that was dictated a day later, on Nov. 24).

But please keep this in mind....

The Warren Commission didn't HIDE or DESTROY either of those two FBI reports. The Commission didn't conceal their existence from the public. Both of those reports---warts, omissions, and all---are readily available for anyone to view and can easily be found right there in the Warren Commission's final report, just a few pages apart in Appendix XI.

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2019, 08:01:13 AM »
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Well, I'm not a mind-reader, so all I can do is provide my best guess on this. And I'm basing this "best guess" on the fact that in none of the final typed-up reports of any of the people who heard Oswald being interrogated by Captain Fritz (Bookhout, Hosty, Holmes, Kelley, and Fritz himself) do we find anything about Oswald saying he went "outside to watch the Presidential parade".

So my best guess is:

I think James Hosty's "went outside to watch P. Parade" note was very likely referring to a point in time that was AFTER the assassination, not before (even though Hosty used the words "P[residential] Parade"). That note is likely referring to the "out with Bill Shelley in front" situation (which appears in Captain Fritz' notes).

And that "out with Shelley" chronology, according to James Bookhout's solo FBI report that appears on Page 619 of the Warren Report, is clearly something that occurred after the assassination and after Oswald's encounter with the policeman on the second floor.

With respect to why there are two separate FBI reports regarding some of this same information, well, I think it's quite possible that the two FBI agents involved in the first report (Hosty and Bookhout), after filing that first report (dictated on Nov. 23), realized that a relevant and important piece of information (the 2nd-floor lunchroom encounter) had not been included in that first joint Hosty/Bookhout report. Therefore, the necessity arose for a second report to be written which would include the information about Oswald being stopped by the police on the second floor (which became the "solo Bookhout" report that was dictated a day later, on Nov. 24).

But please keep this in mind....

The Warren Commission didn't HIDE or DESTROY either of those two FBI reports. The Commission didn't conceal their existence from the public. Both of those reports---warts, omissions, and all---are readily available for anyone to view and can easily be found right there in the Warren Commission's final report, just a few pages apart in Appendix XI.

Oh dear, Mr von Pein, this is most unconvincing!

The devastating words in Agent Hosty's notes about Mr Oswald's claim about a pre-motorcade visit to the 2nd fl lunchroom and about going "outside to watch P. Parade" were concealed from the public. They are nowhere to be found in the Warren Commission's final report. And Agent Hosty, in his Warren Commission testimony, lied about what Mr Oswald had said: he told the commission that Mr Oswald had claimed to have been in the domino room at the time of the motorcade!

Your response to this revelation? As usual when it comes to anything that might threaten the official story of the assassination, you show yourself constitutionally incapable of either seeing evil or hearing evil!

What do you do when presented with new evidence where it is stated in the clearest terms possible by Agent Hosty that Mr Oswald claimed to have gone out to "watch the P. Parade"? You reassure yourself that Agent Hosty must have been so utterly stupid that he would misunderstand or misremember what the accused assassin of President Kennedy had said when asked where he had been at the time of the assassination.

This is not your 'best guess', Mr von Pein, it's merely your best wilful misreading of Agent Hosty's words: "Then went outside to watch P. Parade". You do know what the verb "watch" means, right? And the adjective "Presidential"? And the noun "Parade"?

You did, in fairness, get one thing right: "in none of the final typed-up reports of any of the people who heard Oswald being interrogated by Captain Fritz ... do we find anything about Oswald saying he went 'outside to watch the Presidential parade'". Your failure to draw the obvious conclusion from this silence tells us only how extraordinarily gullible you are.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 08:03:17 AM by Alan Ford »

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2019, 08:01:13 AM »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2019, 08:54:57 AM »
Quote from: Alan Ford
The devastating words in Agent Hosty's notes about Mr Oswald's claim about a pre-motorcade visit to the 2nd fl lunchroom and about going "outside to watch P. Parade" were concealed from the public.

But there was no real need for the authorities to want to hide the fact that Oswald said he went outside to watch the parade (if, in fact, he really DID say those words, which I doubt very much, since nobody wrote those words in ANY official report at all).

Since the law enforcement people involved in this case knew that Oswald lied about so many other things during his interrogation (with those lies being made public), why would the WC or FBI feel the need to hide ONE MORE LIE coming from the lips of the accused Presidential assassin? The authorities had lots of evidence to charge LHO with JFK's murder within 12 hours of the crime. And they knew he was going to lie his ass off. That was obvious right from the start. So what's one more lie?

Do you REALLY think the DPD and FBI knew for a fact that Oswald really was standing outside on the steps when JFK was shot, and that the "Prayer Man" theorists were going to surface in the future with their "bombshell" evidence in the form of the blurry Darnell Film that they say proves Oswald was in the doorway? And is that why the authorities concealed Hosty's note from the world until 2018 when Mr. Blunt dug it out?

And, BTW, why didn't the cover-uppers just destroy that Hosty note? If it's the "key" to the WC story crumbling into dust, why did "they" leave that bread crumb for Blunt to find?

CTers never answer logical questions like that, do they?
« Last Edit: February 22, 2019, 09:09:37 AM by David Von Pein »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2019, 09:02:04 AM »
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But there was no real need for the authorities to want to hide the fact that Oswald said he went outside to watch the parade (if, in fact, he really DID say those words, which I'm doubting he did, since nobody wrote those words in ANY official report at all).

But since Oswald lied about so many other things during his interrogation, why would the WC or FBI feel the need to hide just ONE MORE LIE from the lips of the accused Presidential assassin.

Because it wasn't a lie, and they knew it.

Those less gullible than you, Mr von Pein, understand the significance of the Hosty note. And they see the pathetic circularity of your reasoning: We know that Oswald shot JFK, therefore nothing that points to his not having shot JFK can be taken seriously.

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2019, 09:02:04 AM »

Offline David Von Pein

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2019, 09:16:41 AM »
The problem that you (and all CTers) have is: There's just too much stuff on the "Oswald Did It" table for you to skirt around (including the Tippit murder evidence too, which only a hopelessly fanatical CTer can possibly deny was committed by Oswald).

You can try and pretend that it's all fake and phony evidence, but reasonable people can see that's just a convenient cop-out. And that evidence isn't going anywhere---regardless of Prayer Man and the Hosty note.

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2019, 12:07:22 PM »
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The problem that you (and all CTers) have is: There's just too much stuff on the "Oswald Did It" table for you to skirt around (including the Tippit murder evidence too, which only a hopelessly fanatical CTer can possibly deny was committed by Oswald).

You can try and pretend that it's all fake and phony evidence, but reasonable people can see that's just a convenient cop-out. And that evidence isn't going anywhere---regardless of Prayer Man and the Hosty note.

Let's get right to the point Mr Von Pea Brain....You're FOS!     Very few are going to accept the BS you spew.    We've heard it for nearly six decades and after all of those years  the vast majority still refuse to buy the lie.....  So rave on Pea Brain.....you're voice is getting weaker everyday...

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2019, 12:07:22 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2019, 01:03:14 PM »
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Thank you for your clear answer, Mr von Pein!  Thumb1:

If Mr Oswald did indeed indeed confirm the 2nd floor lunchroom incident, then how do we explain this from Agent Hosty?



Did Mr Oswald tell Captain Fritz he went to the 2nd fl lunchroom to buy a coke, came downstairs to eat his lunch, went out front to watch the parade, then (just after the shooting) went to the 2nd fl lunchroom to buy a coke, came downstairs to eat his lunch, went out front?

I believe that Hosty was a bit confused ( due to his panic caused by Oswald being caught) He had been chewed out and ordered over to the DPD by Hoover less than an hour earlier, and he was trying to clear the FBI of any failure that could have led to the murder of the President.   ( He wasn't smart enough and wasn't the agent for the job)



Years later he was still trying to clean up some of the mess he made when he wrote the book "Assignment : Oswald" in 2011....On page 23 of his book Hosty wrote about the interrogation of Lee Oswald that was conducted ( pun)   at 3:15  11/22 /63 ...
Quote on...
 
Where were you when the president went by the depository?
"I was eating my lunch in the first floor lunchroom."
Were you ever on the second floor around the time the president was shot?
"Well Yeah, I went up there to get a bottle of Coca- Cola from the machine for my lunch."
But where were you when the president actually passed your building?
"On the first floor in the lunchroom"

Quote off...

There can be no doubt that Lee Oswald went to the second floor and had a coke in his hand when Baker and Truly encountered him in the second floor lunchroom.

About a week after the coup d e'tat a reporter from the magazine US News and World Report was at the TSBD talking to Roy Truly ....

Truly told the reporter that Lee was in he second floor lunch room calmly DRINKING A COCA - COLA when Baker opened the door to the lunchroom and demanded to know what Oswald was doing there.....

This interview took place before anybody knew that there was a huge problem with the theory that Lee had ran from the SE corner of the sixth floor to the second floor lunchroom after the shooting.



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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2019, 01:03:14 PM »

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2019, 01:09:31 PM »
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Because it wasn't a lie, and they knew it.

Those less gullible than you, Mr von Pein, understand the significance of the Hosty note. And they see the pathetic circularity of your reasoning: We know that Oswald shot JFK, therefore nothing that points to his not having shot JFK can be taken seriously.

Those less gullible than you, Mr von Pein, understand the significance of the Hosty note.

Alan.... Von PB isn't gullible...... ( Hells Bells,  a little 8 year old kid isn't THAT gullible....)   He's an arrogant, egotistical, liar.....

Online Walt Cakebread

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2019, 01:24:25 PM »
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Yeah, that's what I thought. Cakebread's full of crap (and empty claims), as usual. Just like in all these examples below, wherein I made Cakebread look like the conspiracy-happy fantasist that he is....

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Attention Please....   All readers of this thread .... Please click on the link that Von Pea Brain provided....   It's a golden example of Von P's ignorance. 

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Re: ML Baker Sept '64 FBI Affidavit- Oswald and the Soda
« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2019, 01:24:25 PM »

 

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