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Author Topic: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963  (Read 950 times)

Online Colin Crow

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 02:30:19 PM »
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I actually checked all that and it's really about 4.5 miles from Thornton at Marsalis to 400 Elm street [Dealey Plaza] The drive could take less than 10 minutes at normal highway speed. However, In his interview-Nelson claims to have heard the shots and spoken [about two minutes later] to a patrolman who claimed to have seen the assassination. How could this be when it occurred 15 minutes before Nelson reported his location in Oak Cliff? His yarn just didn't fly.
 

My error on the distance....in any event Nelson was out of assigned district at the time and although acknowledging Jackson's directive by calling his location, ignored it by continuing onto the TSBD.

Jackson?s reason for calling them into Oak Cliff was bogus.

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2019, 02:30:19 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2019, 04:02:46 PM »
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I actually checked all that and it's really about 4.5 miles from Thornton at Marsalis to 400 Elm street [Dealey Plaza] The drive could take less than 10 minutes at normal highway speed. However, In his interview-Nelson claims to have heard the shots and spoken [about two minutes later] to a patrolman who claimed to have seen the assassination. How could this be when it occurred 15 minutes before Nelson reported his location in Oak Cliff? His yarn just didn't fly.
 

Jerry, perhaps you're looking at his from the wrong perspective.....Nelson said that he heard the shots, and talked to a cop who had witnessed the shooting....

Is it possible that he wasn't in Oakcliff at Thornton at Marsalis....  Could he have been in Dealey??

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 08:36:06 PM »
From the lead post------ Nelson's interview....
         
Quote
Nelson remembers seeing Ruby bent over, as police officers tried to subdue him and
         someone yelled, ?Get his gun!?
         ?I grabbed for his hands and didn?t find a gun,? Nelson said. ?But I managed to
          manhandle him into the basement jail house office and handcuffed him.?

Awesome! However, I fail to see Nelson's name on the arrest form. I would like to see his picture at the Oswald shooting.
Think we can find one?

PS  I made an error in linking Ruby's arrest report. Here is all I can find so far....
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Jack Leaville, LC Graves, and Blackie Harrison are Jack Ruby's arresting officers of record.

Quote
Is it possible that he wasn't in Oakcliff at Thornton at Marsalis?
Then he lied about it. A liar anyway you slice it. R C Nelson, W R Westbrook and friends...all peas in a pod that day.
Of course I can't prove any involvement with the Tippit crime...but I am suspicious.  [/size]
   
« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 11:44:26 PM by Jerry Freeman »

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2019, 08:36:06 PM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2019, 09:02:58 PM »
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  although acknowledging Jackson's directive by calling his location, ignored it by continuing onto the TSBD. Jackson?s reason for calling them into Oak Cliff was bogus.
Then he disobeyed a directive and would have been subject to discipline. How would we know that he did this...because he said so? How do we know Jackson's reason?
 
 

Online Colin Crow

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2019, 09:42:50 PM »
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Then he disobeyed a directive and would have been subject to discipline. How would we know that he did this...because he said so? How do we know Jackson's reason?
 

I believe Jackson?s call was inserted after the event to explain away Tippit's movement out of district.

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2019, 09:42:50 PM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2019, 10:21:23 AM »
I found some of my old stuff on this.......starts with Michael Griffith and Duke Lane

From Michael Griffith's review of "with Malice"

Full article here You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login "Why Tippit Was in Central Oak Cliff and Not in His Assigned Area When He Allegedly "Stopped" Oswald     

There is a severe problem with Myers' explanation for Tippit's presence in central Oak Cliff. Tippit's assigned area was miles from central Oak Cliff. Myers quotes dispatcher Murray Jackson's story that he assigned Tippit to central Oak Cliff because "we were draining the Oak Cliff area" and because he supposedly realized there wouldn't be any policeman there if anything happened there (pp. 43-44). But, this won't work: There was already a patrol car assigned there.     Tippit was gunned down in District 91. Officer Mentzel was already assigned there. John Wassell says the police tape for Channel 1 contains a transmission at about 12:33 in which Mentzel asks for permission to take a break. Wassell says Mentzel was on a lunch break from about 12:33 to 1:07. The dispatcher made no effort to contact Mentzel during this period. Wassell further says the dispatcher acknowledged without comment a check-in transmission from Mentzel at 1:07.     

One could argue that technically District 91 was "uncovered" during this time. But in the aftermath of the assassination Districts 88, 89, and 98 also appear to have been "uncovered." Also, many patrol cars appear to have been covering two districts. So why would central Oak Cliff have been singled out for such special attention? Moreover, it should be kept in mind that just moments before the belatedly discovered 12:45 instruction for Officers Tippit and Nelson to move to central Oak Cliff, the dispatcher had radioed "all squads" to proceed to Dealey Plaza: Attention all squads, report to downtown area code 3 to Elm and Houston, with caution. (CE 705, p. 8, 17 H 397) In light of the these facts, it is very hard to understand why central Oak Cliff would have been singled out for special attention. Why would TWO out-of-area patrol cars have been sent to central Oak Cliff when all squads had just been ordered to go to Dealey Plaza (i.e., Elm and Houston), and when there was already a patrol car assigned to that area? Is it sheer coincidence that Oswald "just happened" to live in central Oak Cliff?     

If nothing else, dispatcher Jackson would have known that Mentzel would be back in his patrol car soon. There was no need to send two additional patrol cars to central Oak Cliff.     Myers fails to explain why central Oak Cliff would have been singled out for special attention. Why the need for THREE patrol cars in the one area where, by cosmic coincidence, Oswald "just happened" to live, especially given the fact that there had been no disturbance of the peace in that area whatsoever, and that during this same time officers from the outermost areas were being sent to the Book Depository?     Disturbingly, nowhere in his section on why Tippit was in central Oak Cliff does Myers mention that Officer Mentzel was already in District 91. Not one solitary word. Why not? Because that would cast doubt on his explanation for Tippit's presence in central Oak Cliff?     Myers discusses a number of things that policemen and others said were broadcast over the police radio but which are not found on the existing police tapes. Interesting. This raises the possibility that the tapes have been altered or faked. Critics have long suspected that the 12:45 order sending Tippit and Nelson to central Oak Cliff was dubbed onto the tape after the fact. No such order appeared in the first Dallas police transcript of the police dispatch tapes, even though that transcript was prepared with the instruction to note all transmissions that related to the deaths of Tippit and Kennedy.     Former HSCA deputy chief counsel Gary Cornwell points out that the police tapes in question might be copies (REAL ANSWERS, p. 113). So does Carl Oglesby (THE JFK ASSASSINATION: THE FACTS AND THE THEORIES, p. 251). Says Oglesby, . . . there are indications that other police dictabelts were tampered with (in connection with Patrolman J. D. Tippit) and the NAS panel did not look into these. Third, the chain of custody of this particular piece of evidence, this particular dictabelt, leaves its authenticity open to challenge. One of the committee's scientific experts said outright, though not for attribution, that the discovery of the apparently simultaneous voice transmission from one minute after the transmission means that this dictabelt could not be the original. (THE JFK ASSASSINATION, p. 251)" So it appears that at 12.33 Mentzel in the turmiol that is happening in downtown Dallas.....just has to grab a burger and some donuts and returns half an hour later. Evoking common sense and logic 101.

From Duke Lane....... "Another coincidence is that Mentzel and Tippit were not the only patrol officers in the district at that time, compounding the question as to why Tippit needed to be assigned there. In point of fact, another officer had radioed in that he was "clear [of the car] for five [minutes]" on "East Jefferson" - which is only in Oak Cliff - less than one minute before Tippit was first contacted and ordered into the very same district (along with RC Nelson, who disregarded his orders and broadcast the fact - unchallenged - even as he was doing so). That officer was at least 10 miles from his assigned patrol area (if he was, in fact, the officer assigned to that number). Mentzel, (co)incidentally, finished his lunch and went back on patrol immediately before Tippit's shooting, and was then ordered to investigate an accident on West Davis, which he failed to find. So to summarize:

 ?WD Mentzel, assigned to districts 93 and 94, took lunch just about the time that JFK's motorcade was going through downtown Dallas; he was the only patrol officer to go on lunch at this critical time (this based on the assumption of a 30- to 45-minute lunch break that he completed at about 1:00, the time of his next broadcast, and his 12:25 broadcast that he was "clear" following having been "on traffic" and his next transmission just before 1:07). It is likewise presumed that he went to lunch prior to 12:30 since he later stated that he did not hear about the downtown shooting until he was finishing lunch, thus did not hear it on the radio;

?At 12:28, Unit 56 (WP Parker, in far SE Dallas, by the Garland and Mesquite town lines) radios in about "traffic" involving a '56 Chevy. Dispatch attempts to respond shortly thereafter, but does not get an answer, prompting the question from dispatch: "Anyone know where 56 is?" ?At 12:44, Unit 56 (Parker?) reports that he's "clear for five," and dispatch asks his location. He responds that he's at "East Jefferson" (which is only in Oak Cliff) in patrol district 94 (Mentzel's), 10 miles from his own patrol district;

?At 12:45 - just seven broadcasts from dispatch later - the dispatcher radios Tippit, who reports being at Kiest and Bonnieview, to "move into central Oak Cliff" because - according to the dispatcher's later comments - "resources were being drained from Oak Cliff" ?At 12:54, Tippit is again contacted and reports being at "Lancaster and Eighth," which coincidentally can be reached at normal speed in about eight-and-a-half minutes driving up Bonnieview (which becomes 8th) from Kiest. ?Meanwhile, Harry Olsen is out on the sidewalk in front of an "estate" he's guarding on 8th "a couple of blocks from Stemmons" (Lancaster is two blocks off of the highway) and "receives a phone call" from a friend of an "elderly aunt" of a motorcycle cop assigned to the motorcade (which aunt years later becomes a deceased man whose identity is unknown); ?Sometime between 1:00 and 1:04, dispatch asks Tippit (who is supposed to be patrolling "at large") for his location. Tippit does not respond.

?At 1:04, Mentzel finishes lunch and radios being "clear" following his lunch; ?At 1:11, Mentzel responds to a "Signal 7" (accident) at 817 W Davis (point "B" on the map), about 10 blocks (1.2 miles) from 10th & Patton (point "C"). Unit 222, VR Nolan, also responds from his location at Sylvan & Colorado (point "A") less than a mile away; ?At 1:16, Tippit's shooting is reported by TF Bowley on Channel 1. Tippit has been dead for several minutes at this time.

?Unit 56 (Parker?) does not broadcast again at any time through 2:13. Later reports indicate that the officer(s) assigned to District 56 remained in that district setting up roadblocks following Kennedy's assassination. So some reasonable questions would seem to be: ?Why was WD Mentzel the only officer at lunch while Kennedy's motorcade was travelling through Dallas? ?Why was #56 in Oak Cliff? And where did he go afterward? ?After not hearing from #56 for 16 minutes and then asking his location, why would a dispatcher not realize that he was in Oak Cliff and far from his assigned area?

?Why after hearing that #56 was in Oak Cliff would a dispatcher "realize" that resources were being "drained" from that area and assign two other officers, both from other districts farther south, into it?

?Why was Oak Cliff the only patrol district throughout the city that was assigned "additional" coverage when most other districts' officers responded to the "Signal 19" (shooting) call to "all units" to "report downtown?"

?Why did RC Nelson disregard his order to move into central Oak Cliff, and why did dispatch not say anything when Nelson told them that he was crossing the viaduct into downtown (away from Oak Cliff) and later that he was "out down here" at TSBD in blatant disregard of his orders? ?Why was dispatch concerned with Tippit's location when he was only supposed to be patrolling "at large" around central Oak Cliff? The questions lead to more, including whether the killer was aware of Tippit's being in Oak Cliff because the killer himself was a cop (or was brought there by a cop) who was listening to his own police radio, and thus could be assured that no other police cruisers would come along? Was Tippit in fact having a dalliance with someone who lived three houses from where Scoggins - who "just saw him every day" - was having lunch, and two houses away from the Davis sisters-in-law, one of whom said that he'd been shot "in front of the hedgerow between the house next door and the one he lives in," and if so, were others aware of it (as former officer Tom Tilson has claimed)? Was Tippit ordered into Oak Cliff because it was assumed that, given the chance to be "at large," he would attempt to visit his paramour? Was the killer "killing time" walking around the area waiting for Tippit to finally show up, thus explaining both why neither Scoggins nor Markham noticed him cross Patton and why he was apparently seen by Jimmy Burke (and Markham's son) walking west from Denver Street? Was Tippit in the act of pulling over in front of his paramour's house when he saw someone he recognized and acted as if he was pulling over not to visit his girlfriend, but to greet - "real friendly like" - said unexpected acquaintence? Who was the woman standing on the porch of her home that Frank Wright said had exclaimed "oh, they've shot him!" before going back inside ... perhaps said presumed paramour who may have reconciled with her estranged husband later that very same day? Was Tippit's shooting merely a personal grudge that was carried out serendipitously, the act of a desperate assassin afraid of apprehension, or perhaps a deliberate - and quite successful - attempt to divert police attention away from Dealey Plaza as "one of their own" was shot in the line of duty? Nothing, no other crime of any magnitude, has the emotional impact of a cop-killing and will evoke a massive response by other officers to the exclusion of any other duty; it would have been the most perfect diversion possible. If that's so, who planned it and ordered that Tippit be sent to his death? Is it plausible that it was serendipity that a cop - Tippit - showed up where a shooter was in the simple hope that one could be shot and draw a massive response of cops to the one area of town where a missing TSBD employee happened to live? Or did Oswald do it?"



Online Colin Crow

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2019, 10:32:08 AM »
The work I did on Jackson's call does not align with his reasoning provided for the call at 12.45. Most will be aware of the controversial instruction of dispatcher Murray Jackson to Tippit and Nelson to move from their assigned patrol districts to Oak Cliff around 12.45. This instruction was absent from the original police transcripts prepared for the WC (Sawyer Exhibits A&B) that were supposed to contain all relevant communications relating to the assassination and Tippit. After some months the call appeared in subsequent transcripts. This call allayed concerns of the WC about why Tippit would be so far outside his assigned district when shot.  In order to get a clearer picture of whether Oak Cliff was indeed being drained of police presence following the call for all units to proceed down town I used the following documents. CE2645 -an FBI report dated June 1964 that outlined each patrol assignment for that day and what their response was. This report was prepared to determine if any patrol car could have been responsible for the sighting of a car at 1026 North Beckley around 1pm as claimed by Mrs Roberts. Interestingly the one officer excluded from this summary is Tippit!  Putnam Exhibit 1 is a map of the patrol districts.  The transcripts that appear at John McAdams site You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  From these I prepared the following map.



Those units who were reported to attend downtown in response to the call are indicated in red and are positioned in the district allocated prior to the shooting. Cars containing 2 officers are indicated by circles and those with one are squares. There were some cars instructed to stay in their district and some of them were instructed to set up road blocks. All roadblocks were to the North and north-east of the city. Officers instructed to stay in their areas are indicated in blue. There are some officers that require attention. Parker, Nelson, Menzel and Tippit.  Officer Parker (56)  Parker was assigned districts 56 and 58. After making a call at 12.28 Parker disappears for a period "anyone know where 56 is? However the transcripts indicate he radioed in his position to dispatch around 12.44 that he was on East Jefferson. This is within the Oak Cliff district and it appears he has not responded to the downtown call. In CE2645 it is stated he remained in his allocated district. This is clearly wrong and Jackson knows he is in Oak Cliff. His position at this time is indicated on the map. Parker does not broadcast again until 2.13! CE2645 claims he remained in his district about 10 miles away the whole time.  Officer Nelson (87) It appears that Nelson probably responded to the downtown call as he is well north of his assigned district when he calls his position to Jackson at 12.45. He was at RL Thornton and Marsalis, many miles North of district 87. He is closer to Oak Cliff at this time than Tippit. Apparently he ignores this call from Jackson and continues to the TSBD. In CE2645 it simply states he proceeded downtown as instructed. No mention of the Jackson instruction to patrol Oak Cliff.  Officer Walker   He is instructed to remain in districts 85 and 86 south of Oak Cliff.  Officer Menzel (91) Menzel assigned district 91 and 92, reports clear at 12.28. It appears he heads for lunch at a diner at 430 West Jefferson. It would seem strange he hears nothing on the radio about the shooting on the radio 2minutes later. He seems to be the only officer who takes a lunch break at this time. He does not report back until after one and in CE 2645 it states he repeatedly tried to call by phone but couldn't get through. Obviously no news of the shooting had reached him in nearly 40 minutes. Believable? No attempt by dispatch to contact him in this time to help patrol Oak Cliff. Strange, given Jackson's concern about draining the area of resources.  Officer Tippit (78) It might appear that he too was responding to the downtown call but certainly at a slower pace than Nelson. He reports he is at Keinst and Bonnie View at 12.45 and his position on the map reflects this. However we know that there are 5 witnesses that put him at the Gloco station around this time.  So does it appear that Jackson's justification for ordering Tippit and Neslon to Oak Cliff is logical from the evidence? It certainly appears to me  that there are large areas of Dallas devoid of police. In fact apart from those downtown at the TSBD, Oak Cliff is blessed with police. An update to the original post having trawled through the transcripts and listened to the calls. Comments in chronological order.

1. There is a call of 78 (Tippit) at 12.29 one minute before the shots. it is not clear if this it Tippit or Dispatch.

 2. At 12.30 91(Menzel) calls clear twice. The second time is just 5 seconds before sirens are clearly heard on the radio. Menzel does not get confirmation of clear from dispatch? Apparently he goes to lunch.

 3.At 12.36 93 is called from dispatch and reports at 12.36 at Sylvan and Fort Worth? This appears to be way outside the assigned district. Assists an ambulance by blocking a road. 

4. Who is 97 that called in at 12.41? Reports in at Westmoreland and Fort Worth less about 5 minutes from 1026 North Beckley. Dispatch seems suprised 97 is in service.

5. The 12.41 call for squads in down town area to code 3 elm and Houston. Note the call is for local units only.

6. Unit 43 already there at the jail.  Unit 233 is already at Elm and Houston.  Unit 61 is close by.

Then 77 responds from the district west of Tippit. He does not get confirmed by dispatch for this. 

Then Unit 63, I have no idea who that is but district 63 is close to the scene.  Then dispatch calls 76 in.  Then 97, again no idea who 97 is but district 97 is west of Oak Cliff, is called by dispatch.  Then 60, 80, and 100 are called by dispatch to attend (Sgts. Putnam, Davis and Jennings). 

113 is enroute 113 is downtown close already. I could not find a listing for 113. Is it car 113 (Woods) in district 68 or Osburn as indicated on McAdams site. The position called, Gaston and Haskell is North of Fort worth? Strange.

66 calls enroute, again no idea who 66 is.

At 12.42 81 Calls he is at Corinth and 8th this is in northeastern oak cliff 56 reports East Jefferson again in Oak Cliff 12.45 suspect description is broadcast and 233 broadcasts the suspect is in the TSBD

81 has moved north on industrial moving closer to the TSBD. This call triggers 78 and 87 immediately.

There is almost no gap between the 10-4 call from the previous call and the instruction to Tippit and Nelson to move. Why? Surely no drain of Oak Cliff has occurred. There is no indication that dispatch even knows that Menzel is at lunch. Also. there is no 10-4 call from Tippit or Nelson to this instruction, merely a call of current postion. No 78 for Tippit is audible.

79 (Anglin) calls a position of 1400 Corinth this is after - so dispatch doesn't know he left his Oak Cliff district until now. Then 93 calls asks where to go dispatch says TSBD he is also originally assigned to Oak Cliff 12.46 77 assigned to Oak Cliff asks where to report and is told the TSBD

12.48 81 arrives at the TSBD and calls out to dispatch 12.52 79 (Anglin) calls he will be out at underpass

Then 87 (Nelson) calls out down here (TSBD).

THis is when it would be apparent Oak Cliff is possibly needing backup. Could he have made a call at this point for Tippit to move there and it has been moved up? Finally, Jackson's strange 12.55 call to confirm Tippit is in Oak Cliff and at to be at large for any emergency. It seemed to me the "78" on this recording sounds different to Jackson's previous 78. No so much pronounced Southern twang. When analyzed in sequence I find no evidence that a call should be made at 12.45. Possibly 10 minutes later. Initially only downtown squads were asked and reported to the scene. It was not until later that Units such as 81 responded or asked if they should attend.  Who is car 97? Even dispatch is suprised by that call.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2019, 11:05:54 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2019, 10:32:08 AM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2019, 11:19:36 AM »
It is claimed that around the time the shots were ringing out in DP, Officer Mentzel, who was assigned the Oak Cilff patrol decided to go to lunch. Apparently dining at a cafe at 430 W. Jefferson. He claims not to have been aware of the President's shooting until 1.07pm when he returned to his car. There are a few individuals whose actions are strange at about the time JFK passed through DP and in the half hour or so after. Oswald (and a few other TSBD employees), Tippit and Mentzel is another. Even if we allow for the fact that he most likely requested a lunch break before the shots, (can anyone imagine asking for a lunch break over the radio just after this event!!!). He is supposed to have gone to a cafe........at 430 W Jefferson. Until now I had no idea how close this is to the other key locations involving Oswald's escape. Remember Tippit visited the Top Ten Record store sometime shortly before 1pm. This is only a block from Mentzel's Cafe!!.

Another point.....does it make sense to anyone that an officer would be in a cafe for nearly 40 minutes  and be totally unaware of the assassination? Pure BS in my view. Scogging went to a club and knew all about the shooting before Oswald shot Tippit. Why would an officer on lunch, in a cafe, when hearing of the shooting not report in immediately? Of course he would. Unless he was waiting for someone. In my view Mentzel and Tippit's actions are highly suspicious. Just using common sense and all.

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2019, 11:19:36 AM »

Online Colin Crow

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2019, 11:22:24 AM »
Colin Crow: I came across this from a poster "Raymond"on the AAJU forum relating to Tippit's presence in Oak Cliff.....  From "Reasonable Doubt" by Henry Hurt:     "The Warren Commission continued to struggle with the problem throughout the spring. It heard testimony from three supervisors from the  Dallas Police Dept. who tried to explain why Tippit was in the wrong place. The reasons were purely speculative, vaguely suggesting the demonstrably absurd possibility that Tippit was heading for Dealey Plaza four miles away to be of assistance there. During this testimony, there never was any reference to the possibility that Tippit might have been ordered to central Oak Cliff by the radio dispatcher. And, of course, the three supervisors were quite aware of the intense effort being made to find an answer to the riddle.   "The mystery remained unsolved until finally, in the spring, the WC requested and received a verbatim transcript - not one edited to include only transmissions related to Kennedy and Tippit. The Commission hoped that such a transcript might yield the elusive answer.    " It must have been a stunning revelation for the commission to discover that the new transcripts contained, at least, the badly needed answer to the puzzle. According to the transcript - and supported by the actual tape-there was an order given to Tippit at 12:45 p.m., an inexplicable instruction believed to be unique in the  Dallas Police Dept., it also had not been in the first transcript. Moreover, none of the police supervisors who testified earlier indicated that they knew anything about it. " (Hurt, p.160)    The first transcript submitted to the WC was SAWYER EXHIBIT A. There is no recognizable mention of Tippit or an order to "move into the Oak Cliff area."    The second transcript submitted , the 12:45 order directing him  Oak Cliff was CE 705. It simply says: " 87-78  move into Central Oak Cliff." There is no response by either officer." Do we have a dyslexic dispatcher here? Evidence suggests that dyslexia results from differences in how the brain processes written and/or spoken  language.    The strange thing about the order is that Officer R.C. Nelson, No 87, is also instructed to move into Central Oak Cliff along with Tippit. Why  would these two policemen be singled out to patrol a district that was already being patrolled by Officer Wm. D. Mentzel.    Also strange about the dispatch; neither officer responded to the dispatcher that they heard the order.  The next time Nelson is heard from is at 12:52 when he signaled the dispatcher and informed him that he is " Out down here." At 1:22 Nelson again reports that he is at Elm and Houston, the site of the assassination.    In 1984, Henry Hurt interviewed R.C. Nelson in a parking lot in Corsicana, Texas, where Nelson was then in private business. Nelson told the author that he had waited a long time to tell his story for the public record, but not without payment.    When Hurt asked Nelson: "Did you hear the dispatcher's order telling you to go there ?" Nelson replied, "I'm not sure what you mean. I had rather not talk about that." He then told Hurt that he considered that to be part of the story he was willing to negotiate. Hurt never did get an answer. He was not willing to pay Nelson. ( HURT, pp.  161-62-63)    Sgt. Calvin Owens, J.D.'s supervisor for ten years was no help in explaining the officer's movements. Owens , who was in his car at 12:45, when the order was allegedly given, did not know that Tippit had been moved. He was surprised to learn that J.D.was in District 91 and went there when the officer was shot. At 1:33 Owens contacted the dispatcher and asked him :" Do you know what kind of a call he was on?" The dispatcher answered "What kind of what?" Owens asked, "Was he on a call or anything?"  The dispatcher answered, "NO."   The only reasonable answer to the tape discrepancies is that the tapes were altered to place Tippit in the district where he died without admitting his reason for being there.

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Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2019, 05:53:56 PM »
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The work I did on Jackson's call does not align with his reasoning provided for the call at 12.45. Most will be aware of the controversial instruction of dispatcher Murray Jackson to Tippit and Nelson to move from their assigned patrol districts to Oak Cliff around 12.45. This instruction was absent from the original police transcripts prepared for the WC (Sawyer Exhibits A&B) that were supposed to contain all relevant communications relating to the assassination and Tippit. After some months the call appeared in subsequent transcripts. This call allayed concerns of the WC about why Tippit would be so far outside his assigned district when shot.  In order to get a clearer picture of whether Oak Cliff was indeed being drained of police presence following the call for all units to proceed down town I used the following documents. CE2645 -an FBI report dated June 1964 that outlined each patrol assignment for that day and what their response was. This report was prepared to determine if any patrol car could have been responsible for the sighting of a car at 1026 North Beckley around 1pm as claimed by Mrs Roberts. Interestingly the one officer excluded from this summary is Tippit!  Putnam Exhibit 1 is a map of the patrol districts.  The transcripts that appear at John McAdams site You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  From these I prepared the following map.



Those units who were reported to attend downtown in response to the call are indicated in red and are positioned in the district allocated prior to the shooting. Cars containing 2 officers are indicated by circles and those with one are squares. There were some cars instructed to stay in their district and some of them were instructed to set up road blocks. All roadblocks were to the North and north-east of the city. Officers instructed to stay in their areas are indicated in blue. There are some officers that require attention. Parker, Nelson, Menzel and Tippit.  Officer Parker (56)  Parker was assigned districts 56 and 58. After making a call at 12.28 Parker disappears for a period "anyone know where 56 is? However the transcripts indicate he radioed in his position to dispatch around 12.44 that he was on East Jefferson. This is within the Oak Cliff district and it appears he has not responded to the downtown call. In CE2645 it is stated he remained in his allocated district. This is clearly wrong and Jackson knows he is in Oak Cliff. His position at this time is indicated on the map. Parker does not broadcast again until 2.13! CE2645 claims he remained in his district about 10 miles away the whole time.  Officer Nelson (87) It appears that Nelson probably responded to the downtown call as he is well north of his assigned district when he calls his position to Jackson at 12.45. He was at RL Thornton and Marsalis, many miles North of district 87. He is closer to Oak Cliff at this time than Tippit. Apparently he ignores this call from Jackson and continues to the TSBD. In CE2645 it simply states he proceeded downtown as instructed. No mention of the Jackson instruction to patrol Oak Cliff.  Officer Walker   He is instructed to remain in districts 85 and 86 south of Oak Cliff.  Officer Menzel (91) Menzel assigned district 91 and 92, reports clear at 12.28. It appears he heads for lunch at a diner at 430 West Jefferson. It would seem strange he hears nothing on the radio about the shooting on the radio 2minutes later. He seems to be the only officer who takes a lunch break at this time. He does not report back until after one and in CE 2645 it states he repeatedly tried to call by phone but couldn't get through. Obviously no news of the shooting had reached him in nearly 40 minutes. Believable? No attempt by dispatch to contact him in this time to help patrol Oak Cliff. Strange, given Jackson's concern about draining the area of resources.  Officer Tippit (78) It might appear that he too was responding to the downtown call but certainly at a slower pace than Nelson. He reports he is at Keinst and Bonnie View at 12.45 and his position on the map reflects this. However we know that there are 5 witnesses that put him at the Gloco station around this time.  So does it appear that Jackson's justification for ordering Tippit and Neslon to Oak Cliff is logical from the evidence? It certainly appears to me  that there are large areas of Dallas devoid of police. In fact apart from those downtown at the TSBD, Oak Cliff is blessed with police. An update to the original post having trawled through the transcripts and listened to the calls. Comments in chronological order.

1. There is a call of 78 (Tippit) at 12.29 one minute before the shots. it is not clear if this it Tippit or Dispatch.

 2. At 12.30 91(Menzel) calls clear twice. The second time is just 5 seconds before sirens are clearly heard on the radio. Menzel does not get confirmation of clear from dispatch? Apparently he goes to lunch.

 3.At 12.36 93 is called from dispatch and reports at 12.36 at Sylvan and Fort Worth? This appears to be way outside the assigned district. Assists an ambulance by blocking a road. 

4. Who is 97 that called in at 12.41? Reports in at Westmoreland and Fort Worth less about 5 minutes from 1026 North Beckley. Dispatch seems suprised 97 is in service.

5. The 12.41 call for squads in down town area to code 3 elm and Houston. Note the call is for local units only.

6. Unit 43 already there at the jail.  Unit 233 is already at Elm and Houston.  Unit 61 is close by.

Then 77 responds from the district west of Tippit. He does not get confirmed by dispatch for this. 

Then Unit 63, I have no idea who that is but district 63 is close to the scene.  Then dispatch calls 76 in.  Then 97, again no idea who 97 is but district 97 is west of Oak Cliff, is called by dispatch.  Then 60, 80, and 100 are called by dispatch to attend (Sgts. Putnam, Davis and Jennings). 

113 is enroute 113 is downtown close already. I could not find a listing for 113. Is it car 113 (Woods) in district 68 or Osburn as indicated on McAdams site. The position called, Gaston and Haskell is North of Fort worth? Strange.

66 calls enroute, again no idea who 66 is.

At 12.42 81 Calls he is at Corinth and 8th this is in northeastern oak cliff 56 reports East Jefferson again in Oak Cliff 12.45 suspect description is broadcast and 233 broadcasts the suspect is in the TSBD

81 has moved north on industrial moving closer to the TSBD. This call triggers 78 and 87 immediately.

There is almost no gap between the 10-4 call from the previous call and the instruction to Tippit and Nelson to move. Why? Surely no drain of Oak Cliff has occurred. There is no indication that dispatch even knows that Menzel is at lunch. Also. there is no 10-4 call from Tippit or Nelson to this instruction, merely a call of current postion. No 78 for Tippit is audible.

79 (Anglin) calls a position of 1400 Corinth this is after - so dispatch doesn't know he left his Oak Cliff district until now. Then 93 calls asks where to go dispatch says TSBD he is also originally assigned to Oak Cliff 12.46 77 assigned to Oak Cliff asks where to report and is told the TSBD

12.48 81 arrives at the TSBD and calls out to dispatch 12.52 79 (Anglin) calls he will be out at underpass

Then 87 (Nelson) calls out down here (TSBD).

THis is when it would be apparent Oak Cliff is possibly needing backup. Could he have made a call at this point for Tippit to move there and it has been moved up? Finally, Jackson's strange 12.55 call to confirm Tippit is in Oak Cliff and at to be at large for any emergency. It seemed to me the "78" on this recording sounds different to Jackson's previous 78. No so much pronounced Southern twang. When analyzed in sequence I find no evidence that a call should be made at 12.45. Possibly 10 minutes later. Initially only downtown squads were asked and reported to the scene. It was not until later that Units such as 81 responded or asked if they should attend.  Who is car 97? Even dispatch is suprised by that call.

FWIW.....  Colin.....The map that you posted shows that JD Tippit was not far from Red Bird airport.   It's been reported that the residents near Red bird called the DPD about suspicious aircraft activity immediately following the Coup d e'tat......

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2019, 05:53:56 PM »

 

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