Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963  (Read 952 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« on: February 13, 2019, 09:56:38 PM »
  Radio calls made from and to [87] Ptm R C Nelson Nov 22 1963
  From 12:40 to 1:44 From the internet transcripts...
   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 ***********************************************************
 12:40   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87 clear.
         Dispatcher    87 clear. 12:40.
 12:45   Dispatcher    87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.    
          78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)    I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.           
       **********************************************************
 Perhaps Tippit meant Kiest and Sunnyvale which becomes Bonnie View a mile further
 south at Loop 12 or perhaps he was elsewhere?

   **********************************************************    
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87's going north on Marsalis at     

         R.L. Thornton. [I35E]   
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   12:47   101 (Ptm. B.L. Bass)    87 [probably should read 101] I'm on south end Houston       
         Street viaduct.
 **********************************************************
  That is where some confusion lies and would require listening to the actual tape recording.
  The south end of the Houston St Viaduct at a gas station, is where Tippit was reported seen by
  those who knew him and at this particular time. So where was Ptm Bass really and
  where was Ptm Nelson really?

 *******************************************************        
       Dispatcher    10-4.
 12:52   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    87 out down here.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   
 ***********************************************************
    The Dallas Police are supposed to be looking for a gunman.
  This means that Ptm Nelson got out of his car for some reason.
   "Out down"- where? Simply isn't specified.
   Could he have gone to get a coffee and donut? It was about half an hour before
  he is heard from again.

  **********************************************************
  1:20   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    I'm in my car here at Elm and Houston.
  **************************************************************
  Who ordered Nelson to Elm and Houston? He was told to move into Central Oak Cliff.
   The official report defenders might claim that it was because the police chief orderd all
   available officers to Dealey plaza. Then why didn't Tippit go there too?

  ****************************************************************
    Do you want me over there?         
      Dispatcher    87, report to 4340 West Davis at the service station for information regarding
       suspect on this Signal 19 of the President.   
     87    4340.         
      Dispatcher    Code 3. 
      1:24   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. (Siren)         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    Was that 4340 West Davis?         
      Dispatcher    Yes.         
      87    10-4.         
      Dispatcher    Somebody pulled in there and bought some gas; driving a white Pontiac '61 or '62 station
        wagon with  the prefix P(ecos) E(llis). He had a rifle laying on the seat.         
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    10-4. 
         Dispatcher    Have a citizen following this car at this time, unknown direction.          
        *****************************************************************
   Ptm Nelson was sent to the Cockrell Hill part of Oak Cliff. Perhaps 2 miles
   WEST of the Texas Theater. Code 3 means engage siren and lights. Signal 19 means
   discharge of a firearm. Apparently, Nelson got there from Dealey Plaza? [supposedly]
   and received information on the incident in a remarkable 3 minutes!!

     ********************************************************************* 
   1:27   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    A white station wagon believed to be P (Paul) E     
        (Ellis) 3435, unknown make or model, late model, occupied by two
         white males, left this fellow's station going east on Davis and
         believed they had a shotgun or rifle laying in the back seat.       
     Dispatcher    Received, 87.         
      87    87 en route down there on Jefferson.         
      Dispatcher    87, when you get down there see if you can
            find that car down there at the scene.         
      87    10-4, Code 2. (Beeps)         
      Dispatcher    3.         
      87    10-4.     
 *****************************************************************
   Code 2 means regular urgent but he is told to go ahead and hit
     the lights and siren.
    For some reason, Nelson's pursuit of the reported vehicle appears abandoned.

  *********************************************************************
      1:32   111    They say he's running west in the alley between Jefferson and Tenth.  (Other voices) 
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87, 10-4.
  1:34   1:34    Dispatcher    Return to service. 1:34.
         Dispatcher    87.
         87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.
         Dispatcher    P (Paul) E (Ellis) 3435, C.E. Storey, 5317 
          Goodman, 1961 Falcon (four door?).         
      87    He wasn't sure of the license number.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.          
  *******************************************************
  From 1:34-1:35 an amazing 144 calls were listed on channel one.
  Probably an error in transcript? Nelson calls in
  twice-no reply. At 1:35 channel 2 took over all calls. At 1:43 channel 1 returns 
  Could be an apparent error in the time stamp 

 *******************************************************
   1:43  Dispatcher    87.         
     87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
     Dispatcher    87, was that a Pontiac or Falcon?
       He didn't say what kind of car it'd be         
       It was a white car with a luggage rack on the top. 
     wasn't sure of the model; it was a big car though.      
     Dispatcher    10-4.
  1:44  87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. What was the last location           
       anybody had on that suspect out here in Oak Cliff?
        Dispatcher    Running north on Patton.
   **********************************************************************
  North on Patton was the complete opposite direction from the Texas Theater.
   *********************************************************************
        YouTube recordings  ....   
       [Incomplete]
   David Von Pein channel police audio tape link.....[incomplete]
   
    Transcript supplied by the police chief.....[no time stamps]--
     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login           
*******************************************************************
       
Quote
JFK?s assassination had many witnesses, but one never spoke about the chaos 
       and confusion that followed the President?s killing; Until this year. In an exclusive
       interview with CBS Miami, retired Dallas police officer R.C. Nelson is talking about
       what he saw and heard after the JFK assassination for the very first time.
       "In a chilling account, Nelson says he was on the overpass across from
        the Texas Book Depository ? the building from which Lee Harvey Oswald allegedly
        fired his fatal shots ? when he heard gun fire."
       "Nelson didn?t know it at the time, but those shots were the ones that Lee Harvey Oswald
        allegedly fired to assassinate the President as his motorcade went down Dealy Plaza in Dallas."
        "The retired officer says he was at the scene within two minutes and asked a
        motorcycle patrolman what had happened. Nelson said the motorman told him,
        ?Somebody shot and killed Kennedy. He was up there (pointing to [the] book depository).
         I saw the rifle in the window when I looked up.?
        ?I saw Kennedy?s head blown off.? When Nelson called a superior asking how to proceed,
        he was to told to just stay in place to supervise the area."
        Shortly after JFK?s assassination, a second call came in informing officers of another shooting.
        This time the victim was Nelson?s partner, J.D. Tippit. The two were not paired together that day.   
        Nelson says he can?t imagine Tippit pulling Oswald over. He believes that things happened the
        other way around and Oswald flagged Tippit over.
        The fact that Tippit was shot in the temple, suggests to Nelson that he was looking away,
        and Oswald was the one who approached and shot him.
        We heard someone had gone into the Texas (movie) theater without paying,?
        Nelson recalls. ?It was about three blocks away and we converged on the Texas theater.?
        The movie theater was only two blocks away from where J.D. Tippit was shot by Oswald. <<<<<BUNK
         That is not where the JFK assassination and Nelson?s connection to it ended...
         Two days later, as the nation tried to come to terms with the death of the President, 
         Nelson was assigned to city hall?s basement main door entrance.
         As officers were going through the basement Nelson once again heard shots ring out as
         he stood 20-feet away from the spot in which Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald.
         Nelson remembers seeing Ruby bent over, as police officers tried to subdue him and
         someone yelled, ?Get his gun!?
         ?I grabbed for his hands and didn?t find a gun,? Nelson said. ?But I managed to
          manhandle him into the basement jail house office and handcuffed him.?
          ___________________________________________________________________
         You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

        R C Nelson..... Another really very busy guy back then.
         Another Mr Everywhere wherever he was needed.
        Maybe there were two of them?
           

JFK Assassination Forum

The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« on: February 13, 2019, 09:56:38 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Not This Member!
    Thumbs Up
    This Member Has Made
    A Forum Donation!

  • Posts: 2822
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2019, 10:59:12 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
  Radio calls made from and to [87] Ptm R C Nelson Nov 22 1963
  From 12:40 to 1:44 From the internet transcripts...
   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 ***********************************************************
 12:40   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87 clear.
         Dispatcher    87 clear. 12:40.
 12:45   Dispatcher    87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.    
          78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)    I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.           
       **********************************************************
 Perhaps Tippit meant Kiest and Sunnyvale which becomes Bonnie View a mile further
 south at Loop 12 or perhaps he was elsewhere?

   **********************************************************    
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87's going north on Marsalis at     

         R.L. Thornton. [I35E]   
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   12:47   101 (Ptm. B.L. Bass)    87 [probably should read 101] I'm on south end Houston       
         Street viaduct.
 **********************************************************
  That is where some confusion lies and would require listening to the actual tape recording.
  The south end of the Houston St Viaduct at a gas station, is where Tippit was reported seen by
  those who knew him and at this particular time. So where was Ptm Bass really and
  where was Ptm Nelson really?

 *******************************************************        
       Dispatcher    10-4.
 12:52   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    87 out down here.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.
   
 ***********************************************************
    The Dallas Police are supposed to be looking for a gunman.
  This means that Ptm Nelson got out of his car for some reason.
   "Out down"- where? Simply isn't specified.
   Could he have gone to get a coffee and donut? It was about half an hour before
  he is heard from again.

  **********************************************************
  1:20   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    I'm in my car here at Elm and Houston.
  **************************************************************
  Who ordered Nelson to Elm and Houston? He was told to move into Central Oak Cliff.
   The official report defenders might claim that it was because the police chief orderd all
   available officers to Dealey plaza. Then why didn't Tippit go there too?

  ****************************************************************
    Do you want me over there?         
      Dispatcher    87, report to 4340 West Davis at the service station for information regarding
       suspect on this Signal 19 of the President.   
     87    4340.         
      Dispatcher    Code 3. 
      1:24   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. (Siren)         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    Was that 4340 West Davis?         
      Dispatcher    Yes.         
      87    10-4.         
      Dispatcher    Somebody pulled in there and bought some gas; driving a white Pontiac '61 or '62 station
        wagon with  the prefix P(ecos) E(llis). He had a rifle laying on the seat.         
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    10-4. 
         Dispatcher    Have a citizen following this car at this time, unknown direction.          
        *****************************************************************
   Ptm Nelson was sent to the Cockrell Hill part of Oak Cliff. Perhaps 2 miles
   WEST of the Texas Theater. Code 3 means engage siren and lights. Signal 19 means
   discharge of a firearm. Apparently, Nelson got there from Dealey Plaza? [supposedly]
   and received information on the incident in a remarkable 3 minutes!!

     ********************************************************************* 
   1:27   87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
      Dispatcher    87.         
      87    A white station wagon believed to be P (Paul) E     
        (Ellis) 3435, unknown make or model, late model, occupied by two
         white males, left this fellow's station going east on Davis and
         believed they had a shotgun or rifle laying in the back seat.       
     Dispatcher    Received, 87.         
      87    87 en route down there on Jefferson.         
      Dispatcher    87, when you get down there see if you can
            find that car down there at the scene.         
      87    10-4, Code 2. (Beeps)         
      Dispatcher    3.         
      87    10-4.     
 *****************************************************************
   Code 2 means regular urgent but he is told to go ahead and hit
     the lights and siren.
    For some reason, Nelson's pursuit of the reported vehicle appears abandoned.

  *********************************************************************
      1:32   111    They say he's running west in the alley between Jefferson and Tenth.  (Other voices) 
      87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87, 10-4.
  1:34   1:34    Dispatcher    Return to service. 1:34.
         Dispatcher    87.
         87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.
         Dispatcher    P (Paul) E (Ellis) 3435, C.E. Storey, 5317 
          Goodman, 1961 Falcon (four door?).         
      87    He wasn't sure of the license number.         
      Dispatcher    10-4.          
  *******************************************************
  From 1:34-1:35 an amazing 144 calls were listed on channel one.
  Probably an error in transcript? Nelson calls in
  twice-no reply. At 1:35 channel 2 took over all calls. At 1:43 channel 1 returns 
  Could be an apparent error in the time stamp 

 *******************************************************
   1:43  Dispatcher    87.         
     87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87.         
     Dispatcher    87, was that a Pontiac or Falcon?
       He didn't say what kind of car it'd be         
       It was a white car with a luggage rack on the top. 
     wasn't sure of the model; it was a big car though.      
     Dispatcher    10-4.
  1:44  87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)    87. What was the last location           
       anybody had on that suspect out here in Oak Cliff?
        Dispatcher    Running north on Patton.
   **********************************************************************
  North on Patton was the complete opposite direction from the Texas Theater.
   *********************************************************************
        YouTube recordings  ....   
       [Incomplete]
   David Von Pein channel police audio tape link.....[incomplete]
   
    Transcript supplied by the police chief.....[no time stamps]--
     You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login           
*******************************************************************
                 ___________________________________________________________________
         You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

        R C Nelson..... Another really very busy guy back then.
         Another Mr Everywhere wherever he was needed.
        Maybe there were two of them?
           

There's an amazing similarity between Mc Donald's latter day tale and Nelson's latter day tale....They both were a nothing but bare faced liars....Making up tales to insert themselves into the action.....

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 12:16:02 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There's an amazing similarity between Mc Donald's latter day tale and Nelson's latter day tale....They both were a nothing but bare faced liars....Making up tales to insert themselves into the action.....
Where was Nelson between 12:52 and 1:20PM when he was incommunicado reportedly 'out of his car'?
At 12:54 this call-------
 
Quote
Dispatcher    78.         
     78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)    78.         
     Dispatcher    You are in the Oak Cliff area, are you not?         
     78    Lancaster and Eighth. .......[Just a couple of blocks from where he was shot]        
     Dispatcher    You will be at large for any emergency that comes in.          
     78    10-4.
Why was Tippit singled out and told this? Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2019, 12:16:02 AM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Not This Member!
    Thumbs Up
    This Member Has Made
    A Forum Donation!

  • Posts: 2822
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2019, 01:05:44 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Where was Nelson between 12:52 and 1:20PM when he was incommunicado reportedly 'out of his car'?
At 12:54 this call-------
  Why was Tippit singled out and told this? Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.

Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.

Helen Markham said that Tippit was shot at 1:06....  So this call would have been at about 12:50....

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 761
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 01:34:48 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Where was Nelson between 12:52 and 1:20PM when he was incommunicado reportedly 'out of his car'?
At 12:54 this call-------
  Why was Tippit singled out and told this? Some 15 minutes or so later he was shot.

Tippit and Nelson were both told to go to Oak Cliff by Jackson. From memory Nelson was already out of his assigned area and in south Oak Cliff at the time of that transmission. Nelson simply went to Dealy Plaza.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2019, 01:34:48 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2019, 07:42:48 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Tippit and Nelson were both told to go to Oak Cliff by Jackson. From memory Nelson was already out of his assigned area and in south Oak Cliff at the time of that transmission. Nelson simply went to Dealy Plaza.
From memory? Whose memory? Anyway, Nelson was not told to go to Dealey Plaza.
At 12:45 Nelson said he was at Marsalis and Thornton Freeway. That is near the Dallas Zoo. If he was out that way, he could not possibly have heard the shots downtown that he claimed he did in that interview.

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 761
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 08:40:51 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
From memory? Whose memory? Anyway, Nelson was not told to go to Dealey Plaza.
At 12:45 Nelson said he was at Marsalis and Thornton Freeway. That is near the Dallas Zoo. If he was out that way, he could not possibly have heard the shots downtown that he claimed he did in that interview.

From my memory when I looked into this years ago. There was a substantial thread on this on the old forum before the crash and all was lost.

Dispatcher   87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.       
    78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)   I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.       
    87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)   87's going north on Marsalis at R.L. Thornton.

The instruction from Murray Jackson seems clear to Tippit and Nelson. Both appear acknowledge Jackson with their position. Nelson simply went to Dealey Plaza. Jackson?s excuse that they were bleeding Oak Ciiff disproportionally at that time was bogus. Menzel (91) had claimed he was out to lunch just before the shots rang out. It was his patrol district.....one guy was deemed sufficient before the shots and yet Jackson felt suddenly two officers were needed. A bit strange.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2019, 08:42:45 AM by Colin Crow »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2019, 08:40:51 AM »

Online Colin Crow

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 761
  • Beware of Geeks bearing gifs.
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 12:30:34 PM »
From Marsalis/RL Thornton (12.45) to South end of Houston St viaduct (12.49) is 7.9 miles (google maps).

I have been generous with the times and is ikely a minute less.....

In any event.....Nelson does it in at least 120mph.....maybe 160mph! Not originally in his assigned district too (from my fading memory).

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2019, 12:30:34 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Not This Member!
    Thumbs Up
    This Member Has Made
    A Forum Donation!

  • Posts: 2822
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2019, 01:50:50 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
From my memory when I looked into this years ago. There was a substantial thread on this on the old forum before the crash and all was lost.

Dispatcher   87, 78, move into central Oak Cliff area.       
    78 (Ptm. J.D. Tippit)   I'm about Kiest and Bonnie View.       
    87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)   87's going north on Marsalis at R.L. Thornton.

The instruction from Murray Jackson seems clear to Tippit and Nelson. Both appear acknowledge Jackson with their position. Nelson simply went to Dealey Plaza. Jackson?s excuse that they were bleeding Oak Ciiff disproportionally at that time was bogus. Menzel (91) had claimed he was out to lunch just before the shots rang out. It was his patrol district.....one guy was deemed sufficient before the shots and yet Jackson felt suddenly two officers were needed. A bit strange.


"Armed with is thought to be a 30-30 rifle".....   

A 30-30 is a Lever action rifle designed by Winchester.... There's no way a full wooden stock, mannlicher carcano, could be mistaken for a 30-30 Winchester.

Sorry to jump off topic... but since the police dispatcher describes the suspect as someone other than Lee Oswald and the weapon that is NOT a carcano, on this tape I wanted to call attention to this fact. 

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 01:55:40 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
From Marsalis/RL Thornton (12.45) to South end of Houston St viaduct (12.49) is 7.9 miles (google maps).
I have been generous with the times and is likely a minute less.....
In any event.....Nelson does it in at least 120mph.....maybe 160mph! Not originally in his assigned district too (from my fading memory).
I actually checked all that and it's really about 4.5 miles from Thornton at Marsalis to 400 Elm street [Dealey Plaza] The drive could take less than 10 minutes at normal highway speed. However, In his interview-Nelson claims to have heard the shots and spoken [about two minutes later] to a patrolman who claimed to have seen the assassination. How could this be when it occurred 15 minutes before Nelson reported his location in Oak Cliff? His yarn just didn't fly.
 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: The puzzling activities of Ptm R C Nelson 11/22/1963
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2019, 01:55:40 PM »

 

Mobile View