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Author Topic: Lincoln Assassination Status: a Still Open or Reopenable FBI Investigation?  (Read 11814 times)

Offline Michael Walton

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So let me get this straight. Many of the people on this board who just can't see any conspiracy having taken place in the JFK assassination are now also saying that there WAS a conspiracy in the Lincoln assassination?

And I thought there already WAS a conspiracy with Mary Stuart(?) and others and they were hanged?

Hahahahaha! There are many, many people out there with some truly weird ways of thinking! OMG! No wonder this country is going down the tubes!

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Offline Bill Chapman

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Define "being seen".  Actually Captain Westbrook was not only at both scenes, but he was at the scene when the jacket was found and at the theater for the arrest.  Not bad for a personnel officer.

Westbrook was at City Hall during the assassination.
Westbrook arrived at the Tippit scene after the fact.

You wouldn't be trying to spin the Texas Theater/Tippit scenes as being the 'both scenes' I'm talking about (see above) now would you John?

« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 11:49:21 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Mytton

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So let me get this straight. Many of the people on this board who just can't see any conspiracy having taken place in the JFK assassination are now also saying that there WAS a conspiracy in the Lincoln assassination?

And I thought there already WAS a conspiracy with Mary Stuart(?) and others and they were hanged?

Hahahahaha! There are many, many people out there with some truly weird ways of thinking! OMG! No wonder this country is going down the tubes!

Seriously? You're missing the point entirely, it's not about who killed who, it's about double standards and the CT's contradictory application of evidence. And btw this is just a surface level analysis, we still haven't started attacking eyewitnesses yet. Muhahaha!

JohnM
« Last Edit: August 16, 2019, 10:31:34 PM by John Mytton »

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Offline Michael Walton

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John M:

"Seriously..."

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I'm going to agree with you here but it really does go both ways with this case, John. There are some outrageous claims with CTers out there. To name a few:

The body being squirreled away from Parkland, dropped down into the cargo hold, whisked away on a thrumming helicopter at Andrews, and all manner of body manipulations by mad doctors with scalpels at the ready. All - for what...?

When the Z film shows that a single shooter supposedly pulls off a super human feat of marksmanship - one that has never been duplicated during controlled conditions - and yet we have crazies saying that the Z film needed FURTHER doctoring to cover up - what...?

When it's decided by secret agents with rain coats on and collars pulled up, decide to pluck a Hungarian kid from the streets post WWII - and his mother to boot - bring them back and train them to be secret agents and lookalikes of Lee Oswald, a mere nobody, and continue this charade for 16 years until 11/22. All - for what...?

I could go on, but you should get the gist of it.

On the other side of the coin, though, John, there are way too many inconsistencies with the official version, that same version you support unquestioned. To boot:

We're expected to believe Oswald was a raving leftist like McVeigh was a right-wing crazy who actually had a Sic Tyrants shirt on when he was arrested? Yet, Oswald denied doing any of the shootings he was accused of. We'd have to give him the benefit of the doubt but he never got his day in court with a good team of lawyers behind him.

And, oh yeah, for someone who supposedly did this to get back at America in some crazy way - why in the world was he still wearing his USMC ring? Oops. As a leftist, and with all things that ring represents, you'd think he would have thrown that away years ago.

We're expected to believe that three clean shots fired from the so-called sniper lair hit, then missed, then hit again, yet a trained Secret Service agent described a "flurry of shells" coming into the car?

We're expected to believe that the so-called missed shot hit way, way down the street? I mean WAY DOWN there all the way to where the underpass is, kicking up chips and hitting Tague?

We're expected to believe that all of these clean shots somehow nicked the windshield causing damage to it?

We're expected to believe that Oswald waltzed over and wiped down his rifle, stuffed it pretty well between boxes to hide it, then skipped down to the 2nd floor to be found calmly sipping a Coca Cola a minute and a half after the shooting? And yet, this raving madman forgot to pick up the shells but took the time to wipe the weapon down and try to hide it? If he was making a statement, why not just throw the weapon down in the lair, leaving his prints on it and the shells there too?

We're expected to believe that after murdering a policeman, Oswald throws his wallet down at the scene, ejects his shells as he walks away from the scene, takes off his jacket as he leaves? And yet, when arrested they pull out a second wallet from his pocket. So what was this...some extraordinary sleigh of hand?

I could go on, but you get the gist of it.

I think the biggest thing about this case is the incredible bias of folks who simply don't like Kennedy, the Kennedy family in general, or whatever warped thinking they have that will always block rational thought. I get that - folks think he was a playboy; the family is too rich; the father was crooked; and so on. And yeah, I'm going to put it out here now - Kennedy seemed like a good guy, but he did escalate the number of soldiers in Viet Nam and he and his brother both signed off on surveilling Martin Luther King, all the while inviting him to the WH after his speech on 8/28/63. So yeah, despite what those who worship Kennedy say, he does leave much to be desired.

But just because you don't like someone or hate their family, it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve a fair and rational investigation into his murder. Further, when you're biased, that biased thought is going to keep anyone from giving the narrative of the murder any rational thought.

If you take all of that bias away, there are way too many coincidences and oddities for it to be mere happenstance, John. Life in general just doesn't happen that way.

'Night John Boy. 'Night Mary Ellen.


Offline John Iacoletti

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::)

Not that you're riding the semantics seesaw
>>> On the scene during the shootings.

And by "on the scene", you mean somewhere in the TSBD building?  That's useful.

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Oh, btw... Did Oswald demand a jacket to wear at any of the lineups? ;)

Relevance?

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Offline John Iacoletti

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Oswald's wallet containing Hidell ID was found on Oswald's person.

Unfortunately this ID (that nobody mentioned in any report or interview before Oswald was dead) is not a confession to killing anyone.

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And unless you have evidence that someone saw some guy actually pull the trigger then you got nothing.

Are you trying to claim that there is just as much evidence against Oswald as against Booth?

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How is following a paper/evidence trail that leads from Kleins records straight to the 6th floor of Oswald's building "gymnastics"?

Because there is no "paper/evidence trail that leads from Kleins records straight to the 6th floor".

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Saw "who" jump from the balcony, was this person ever positively identified in an "unfair lineup"? -giggle-

No.  Those were the purview of the Dallas PD.

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An unfair rigged lineup contains only 1 person who is holding the weapon, Oswald's lineup's were nothing like that.

They might as well have been one person holding a weapon.

- The fillers were not chosen to resemble the witnesses' descriptions of the perpetrator
- There were only 3 fillers for the lineups and no fillers for the photo identifications
- The fillers were not dressed like Oswald
- The fillers were not dressed to match witnesses' descriptions of the perpetrator
- The person administering the lineup knew which person in the lineup was the suspect
- The witnesses did not view the lineups separately
- Some witnesses knew which man was the suspect before they attended the lineup
- Not all of the men were handcuffed together for the first lineup
- Witnesses were influenced by the physical appearances of both Oswald and the fillers
- Witnesses were influenced by Oswald's complaints about the fairness of the lineups
- Witnesses were intimidated or pressured by the authorities
- Witnesses were asked to sign affidavits which would include who they picked in the lineup before actually viewing the lineup
- The criminal justice system in Dallas County had a history of railroading suspects

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In a darkened theater, what could they possibly see?

Evidence that Ford's theater was darkened?  I guess you didn't know about the witness who saw Booth enter the presidential box either.

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Oops, Brennan saw Oswald in the sniper's nest, you know the sniper's nest with Oswald fresh prints on the recently moved rifle rest box.



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See above and don't forget when Oswald was approached by Police Officers he struck McDonald and then tried to kill McDonald with his revolver.

Evidence that Oswald "tried to kill McDonald with his revolver"?  And what does that have to do with who killed the president?

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What, so the handwriting analysis is based on an "unscientific" opinion, you gotta do better than that.

What handwriting analysis?  Why are you so desperately trying to equate two block letters on a photo of a microfilm copy from microfilm found 1000 miles away with a diary containing a confession found on somebody's person?  And then there were his accomplices...

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Oswald: Well, it's all over now

Yes, McDonald had a habit of embellishing things that nobody else could attest to.

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No, it's just fun exposing a lazy contrarian who applies Polar different conclusions to essentially the same type of evidence.

"Essentially the same type of evidence" is blatantly dishonest and self-serving.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 07:21:51 PM by John Iacoletti »

Offline John Iacoletti

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Seriously? You're missing the point entirely, it's not about who killed who, it's about double standards and the CT's contradictory application of evidence. And btw this is just a surface level analysis, we still haven't started attacking eyewitnesses yet. Muhahaha!

Go for it.  I don't know the Booth case well enough to argue the evidence, but if you think you can then be my guest.  All I ask is that you don't misrepresent the evidence like you and "Richard" do with Oswald.

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Offline Tom Scully

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.....

btw:  Rathbone later murdered his wife and was committed to an insane asylum.  Maybe he assassinated Lincoln that is why Booth fought him.  It's possible and that is all that counts when trying to raise false doubt.
.....
Thanks for baiting him and exposing the outrageous double standards. Hilarious!

JohnM
Double standards, or no actual standards? Virginia Davis misrepresented her age to DPD and in her Warren Commission sworn testimony but her credibility is NOT to be questioned, despite unique details she "recounted".

William Whaley created the legend of the LN fleeing the scene of the crime with curious lack of urgency, (ice water in Oswald's veins, cold blooded, reptilian killer, scrambled egg for a brain, per "reporter" Breslin, echoed by Nellie Connally) offering Whaley's
cab to a woman who seemed to Whaley to communicate a greater air of urgency than the LN assassin. Remarkably consistent records into the mid 1940s, including the date of his parents' 1907 marriage, Whaley's 1908 birth year, 1910, '20, '30, and '40 US census records, Whaley's son's birth certificate, and Whaley's 1942 military draft record all indicate he was born in 1908.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/13730776/william-wayne-whaley/photo


News reporters, including the highly regarded (by LNs...) Hugh Aynesworth, reported that Whaley served as a "Navy gunner" in the 1945 invasion of Iwo Jima, earning a Navy Cross for his combat related actions. No proof of this high award for his combat service has ever emerged and LNs are remarkably incurious. Whaley's son (and namesake) born in 1931, went to live with Whaley's wife's sister after her 1934, TB related death. Whaley Jr. considered his aunt and her husband to be his parents.

The lack of interest in any of these issues which would predictably influence any reasonable person (the sort sought via voir dire jury pool questioning by both defense and prosecuting attorneys) to discount the general credibility of both Ms. Davis and Mr. Whaley, since their deceptions were ongoing as they testified, are judged less troubling, or of no concern whatsoever, compared to the disqualification of 1865 Lincoln Assassination witness, Maj. Rathbone, because he murdered his wife 18 years after his Lincoln testimony?

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Rathbone#Final_years_and_death

...On December 23, 1883, Rathbone attacked his children in a fit of madness. Rathbone fatally shot and stabbed his wife, who was attempting to protect the children....

If Booth lived long enough to be tried...."Maj. Rathbone, have you ever contemplated murdering your fiance?"
VS
"Ms. Davis, (or Mr. Whaley), why do defense investigators inform our Oswald defense team of d.o.b. dates of your background records different from the age you have represnted yourself to be to inquiring officials or to the press?"

Isn't the core deficiency, (for the inquiring, open minded) the deprivation of a criminal trial, owing to lax DPD security, indifference by Sheriff Bill Decker and
Ruby's murderous act, resulted in no defense attorney raising some of the issues (and similarly, about other prosecution witnesses) to a trial jury, which I present in this post?

Hugh Aynesworth reporting on 28 November, 1963 about Whaley and his Navy Cross combat award.:


There is no available record, so far, of Whaley's professed award of the Navy Cross.



Whaley was born in June, 1908 as recently as in the information displayed on his son William W Whaley, Jr's 1931 birth certificate, but since then he was born in 1905 although his parents married in 1907 according to Hopkins County, TX records and the same familoy bible that describes Whaley's birth as in 1908.
UPDATED: Whaley's 1942 Selective Service document indicates he may have written his birth date as June 19, 1908,
three years later than the date on his death certificate and gravestone.

His son and namesake William's 1997 obit lists William Jr's aunt Alice Patterson as his mother and mentions no father.
Whaley Sr's obit does not mention his namesake son, William, Jr.

UPDATE:
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Albuquerque Journal from Albuquerque, New Mexico on October 30 ...
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/157414971/

Oct 30, 1984 - SEALES Mr. Alvin S. Seales, age 73 and a resident here 21 years, died Monday in a local hospital following an illness. He is survived by his wife, Alice; a son William W. Whaley and wife Dorothy; granddaughter Jamy Whaley; grandson, William W. Whaley Jr. and wife Nancy, all of Albuquerque; a brother ..

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https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/157070315/
June 24, 1997........
WHALEY William Wayne Whaley, 65, passed away unexpectedly on June 18, 1997 in Michigan while on vacation. Husband of 43 years to Dorothy; father and father-in-law of Jamy and Gregg Peevy and Bill Jr. and Dee Whaley, all of Albuquerque; son of Alice (Pat) Scales of Albuquerque. Mr. Whaley retired from Us Alamos National Ubs in 1993 after 17 years. A memorial service will be held Wednesday, 3:00 p.m. at French Mortuary, Umas Blvd. Chapel, 10500 Umas NE. Cremation has taken place. In lieu of flowers, memorial contributions may be made to Noonday Ministry, P.O. Box 8769, Albuquerque, NM 87198 or New Mexico Boys and Girls Ranch, 6209 Hendrix NE, Albuquerque, NM 87110. French Mortuary, 10500 Umas NE. Church with Rev. Archie Parker officiating. Interment to follow at Santa Fe National Cemetery with Wilson Cox Jr., David Cox, David O'Dell Jr., Timoth O'Dell, Patrick O'Dell and Jon Palmer serving as pallbearers......

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ABQJournal Online - Albuquerque Journal Obituaries
obits.abqjournal.com/obits/show/124434
Jan 30, 1999 - Seales -- Alice (Pat) Seales, passed away Wednesday morning, January 27, 1999, at Sunrise Mission Manor Care and Rehabilitation. She was 91 years old. She was preceded in death by her husband, Alvin S. Seales; and her son, William Whaley. She is survived by her daughter-in-law, Dorothy Whaley; ...

.....
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 03:39:40 AM by Tom Scully »