Users Currently Browsing This Topic:
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Author Topic: Lack Of Damage To CE-399  (Read 14034 times)

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #180 on: February 09, 2019, 01:03:41 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
To address the "lack of damage" to CE-399...
The bullet, now traveling at around half of it's original speed, strikes Connally's fifth rib, completely shattering it.  Damage to the bullet was minimal due to the fact that it was not traveling anywhere near full speed when it struck the rib. etc etc.
Conjecture that addresses nothing.   Reply #5 ...Where is the proof that CE-399 was even fired at the motorcade that day?
So far, I've seen nothing that does that.
 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #180 on: February 09, 2019, 01:03:41 AM »

Offline Andrew Mason

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • SPMLaw
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #181 on: February 09, 2019, 03:32:00 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Conjecture that addresses nothing.   Reply #5 ...Where is the proof that CE-399 was even fired at the motorcade that day?
So far, I've seen nothing that does that.
 
The evidence that it was fired at the motorcade consists of the following:

1. three shots were fired at the motorcade
2. a bullet was found on a stretcher at Parkland by Tomlinson on the afternoon of 22/11/63 and passed along to Todd who put his initials on it.
3. the fragments of bullets found in the limo amounted to less than one bullet. None of the fragments could be conclusively tied to Oswald's gun.
4. point 3. was not known by anyone at the time that CE399 was found on the stretcher by Tomlinson and at the time Todd scratched his initials in CE399
5. CE399 was fired at some time by Oswald's MC
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.
7. Any theory that someone planted CE399 on Connally's stretcher requires: i). that conspirators anticipated a need to make it appear that Oswald's gun had been used to fire the shots that struck the limo when it hadn't ii). that conspirators knew what the bullets in the car showed or did not show and iii) that the wounds of the men in the car would be consistent with a whole bullet being found on Connally's stretcher iv) that the conspirators knew that CE399 would be discovered at Parkland by planting it on a stretcher  v) that the purpose of planting CE399 was so important that it far outweighed the risk of the conspiracy being discovered.
8. 7. makes no sense.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 03:32:53 PM by Andrew Mason »

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1436
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #182 on: February 09, 2019, 04:56:24 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The evidence that it was fired at the motorcade consists of the following:

1. three shots were fired at the motorcade
2. a bullet was found on a stretcher at Parkland by Tomlinson on the afternoon of 22/11/63 and passed along to Todd who put his initials on it.
3. the fragments of bullets found in the limo amounted to less than one bullet. None of the fragments could be conclusively tied to Oswald's gun.
4. point 3. was not known by anyone at the time that CE399 was found on the stretcher by Tomlinson and at the time Todd scratched his initials in CE399
5. CE399 was fired at some time by Oswald's MC
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.
7. Any theory that someone planted CE399 on Connally's stretcher requires: i). that conspirators anticipated a need to make it appear that Oswald's gun had been used to fire the shots that struck the limo when it hadn't ii). that conspirators knew what the bullets in the car showed or did not show and iii) that the wounds of the men in the car would be consistent with a whole bullet being found on Connally's stretcher iv) that the conspirators knew that CE399 would be discovered at Parkland by planting it on a stretcher  v) that the purpose of planting CE399 was so important that it far outweighed the risk of the conspiracy being discovered.
8. 7. makes no sense.

6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.

Or, alternatively, CE399 was (just like the Walker bullet) part of an FBI scheme to wrap a very weak case around Oswald very quickly?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #182 on: February 09, 2019, 04:56:24 PM »

Offline Andrew Mason

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • SPMLaw
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #183 on: February 09, 2019, 07:57:15 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.

Or, alternatively, CE399 was (just like the Walker bullet) part of an FBI scheme to wrap a very weak case around Oswald very quickly?
There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle, recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.  So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination. This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK. 

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1436
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #184 on: February 09, 2019, 09:29:46 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle, recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.  So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination. This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle,

No need? on Friday night both the bullet found at Parkland as well as the MC rifle were in Washington.

recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.

Who said the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? You have zero evidence for that! All you can show is that a bullet was passed on by four men. What you can not (and will never ever be able to) show is that it was CE399. For all anybody knows the bullet found at Parkland could just have been an unrelated bullet that came in handy.

So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination.

Wrong. They could have easily substituted the bullet from Parkland for one fired by the MC rifle at the FBI lab.

This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

No it doesn't. You just don't want to consider the possibility of a substitution at the FBI lab.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2019, 10:06:52 PM by Martin Weidmann »

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #184 on: February 09, 2019, 09:29:46 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****

  • This Member Has Made
    A Forum Donation!
  • Posts: 2823
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #185 on: February 09, 2019, 10:19:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle,

No need? on Friday night both the bullet found at Parkland as well as the MC rifle were in Washington.

recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.

Who said the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? You have zero evidence for that! All you can show is that a bullet was passed on by four men. What you can not (and will never ever be able to) show is that it was CE399. For all anybody knows the bullet found at Parkland could just have been an unrelated bullet that came in handy.

So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination.

Wrong. They could have easily substituted the bullet from Parkland for one fired by the MC rifle at the FBI lab.

This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

No it doesn't. You just don't want to consider the possibility of a substitution at the FBI lab.

Keep in mind that the DPD were reporting that they had a 7.65 Mauser  as the suspects rifle.    They sure as hell would have wanted to make certain that the caliber of the Parkland bullet matched the suspect's rifle......

Offline Andrew Mason

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 490
    • SPMLaw
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #186 on: February 11, 2019, 01:18:53 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle,

No need? on Friday night both the bullet found at Parkland as well as the MC rifle were in Washington.

recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.

Who said the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? You have zero evidence for that! All you can show is that a bullet was passed on by four men. What you can not (and will never ever be able to) show is that it was CE399. For all anybody knows the bullet found at Parkland could just have been an unrelated bullet that came in handy.

So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination.

Wrong. They could have easily substituted the bullet from Parkland for one fired by the MC rifle at the FBI lab.

This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

No it doesn't. You just don't want to consider the possibility of a substitution at the FBI lab.
So not only did Todd lie, but also Robert Frazier and others at the FBI lab. And they lied and put themselves in a position where they would stand to lose their job and be charged criminally for what reason? Because they knew that the real bullet didn't match Oswald's MC? Why would they want to frame Oswald if his gun had not fired at the limo? It makes absolutely no sense.  It is no wonder there is absolutely no evidence to support such fanciful idea.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #186 on: February 11, 2019, 01:18:53 AM »

Offline Jerry Freeman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1340
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #187 on: February 11, 2019, 01:58:49 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The evidence that it was fired at the motorcade consists of the following:

1. three shots were fired at the motorcade
                 Three shots were reported. Does not prove 399 was one of them.
2. a bullet was found on a stretcher at Parkland by Tomlinson on the afternoon of 22/11/63 and passed along to Todd who put his initials on it.
                   No proof really, that 399 was fired at the motorcade.
3. the fragments of bullets found in the limo amounted to less than one bullet. None of the fragments could be conclusively tied to Oswald's gun.
                 And they certainly tried to do that.
4. point 3. was not known by anyone at the time that CE399 was found on the stretcher by Tomlinson and at the time Todd scratched his initials in CE399
                    Does not prove anything
5. CE399 was fired at some time by Oswald's MC
                        Yes at some time
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.
                    A bullet fired and striking flesh and bone would have been deformed and therefore difficult to link to the rifle                       
7. Any theory that someone planted CE399 on Connally's stretcher requires: i). that conspirators anticipated a need to make it appear that Oswald's gun had been used to fire the shots that struck the limo when it hadn't ii). that conspirators knew what the bullets in the car showed or did not show and iii) that the wounds of the men in the car would be consistent with a whole bullet being found on Connally's stretcher iv) that the conspirators knew that CE399 would be discovered at Parkland by planting it on a stretcher  v) that the purpose of planting CE399 was so important that it far outweighed the risk of the conspiracy being discovered.
8. 7. makes no sense.
          Regarding 7 v) It was assured that a conspiracy would not be discovered. The new president, FBI director, Dallas district attorney and other city authorities would assure this.
I do not understand why at this point it is so difficult to accept this.
 

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #187 on: February 11, 2019, 01:58:49 AM »

Online Martin Weidmann

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1436
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #188 on: February 11, 2019, 07:44:28 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

So not only did Todd lie, but also Robert Frazier and others at the FBI lab. And they lied and put themselves in a position where they would stand to lose their job and be charged criminally for what reason? Because they knew that the real bullet didn't match Oswald's MC? Why would they want to frame Oswald if his gun had not fired at the limo? It makes absolutely no sense.  It is no wonder there is absolutely no evidence to support such fanciful idea.

So not only did Todd lie, but also Robert Frazier and others at the FBI lab.

Where do you get the idea from that it would have taken more than one person to switch a bullet? All Frazier (and others at the lab) knew is what Todd told them about receiving the bullet from Rowley.

And they lied and put themselves in a position where they would stand to lose their job and be charged criminally for what reason?

Unless of course, if Hoover wanted it done and they were simply toeing the line. A bit like Hosty destroying the note from Oswald on Shanklin's instructions.

Because they knew that the real bullet didn't match Oswald's MC?

Physical evidence in the Kennedy murder is extremely scanty. Hoover actually said so to LBJ. So, they get this unrelated bullet from Parkland and it doesn't match the MC rifle. They have two options; (1) they tell Hoover there's no match, putting the case against Oswald (who Hoover had already named as the sole assassin) in complete jeopardy or (2) they just fire a bullet from the MC and nobody is the wiser and/or can prove otherwise.

Why would they want to frame Oswald if his gun had not fired at the limo? 

Possibly for the same reason LBJ formed the WC.

It makes absolutely no sense.

Anything to do with possible malpractice by law enforcement officals seems not to make sense to you

It is no wonder there is absolutely no evidence to support such fanciful idea.

Oh but there is... a circumstantial case can easily be made. You just would not want to accept it.

« Last Edit: February 13, 2019, 01:09:59 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Walt Cakebread

  • Hero Member
  • *****

  • This Member Has Made
    A Forum Donation!
  • Posts: 2823
Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #189 on: February 12, 2019, 12:06:20 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.

Or, alternatively, CE399 was (just like the Walker bullet) part of an FBI scheme to wrap a very weak case around Oswald very quickly?

I'll accept "C"....With one small correction.....   CE399 was (just like the Walker bullet) part of an FBI Hoover scheme to wrap a very weak case around Oswald very quickly?

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Lack Of Damage To CE-399
« Reply #189 on: February 12, 2019, 12:06:20 AM »

 

Mobile View