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Author Topic: Did Lee Oswald know....??  (Read 2688 times)

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 04:32:41 PM »
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Interesting question Walt. Don?t have my resources handy at the moment but I don?t recall if he was even asked if he was on the 6th floor by anyone....he may have been. He did answer a reporter if he was in the building at the time and his reply....."of course if I work in that building"...

Others were certainly asked early on about the 6th floor and specifically whether they had sighted the accused on that floor that day.

Is there anything from Marina or Robert or Ruth in their dealings with him in custody?

I don?t recall if he was even asked if he was on the 6th floor by anyone...

I have not been able to find any indication that Lee ever knew that the sixth floor was being presented to the public as the place where the shots had been fired from.
And his incredulous question to Inspector Kelley ..... "MY God! don't tell me there's a mark where this thing happened."...  is a very strong indicator that he was ignorant, and unaware of the basic tale that all of us accept as the foundation of the case.

IF Lee never knew that the sixth floor was the official crime scene,a whole new picture emerges....   For example...  If He knew that the TSBD and specifically the sixth floor was the crime scene... He would logically have put as much distance between himself and that place as possible at the time of the shooting....So instead of telling Fritz that he was in that building when the motorcade passed by he would probably told Fritz that he'd gone to Buell  Frazier's car to see if he had left some item in Frazier's car, and was on his way back to the TSBD when the motorcade passed down Elm street.  The fact that he admitted being in the building speaks to his innocence.... 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 04:52:46 PM by Walt Cakebread »

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2019, 04:32:41 PM »

Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2019, 04:43:18 PM »
Oswald was being sarcastic. Anyways, how in God's green earth does Oswald admitting he was "in the building" prove the little rat was innocent?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2019, 05:00:01 PM »
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Oswald was being sarcastic. Anyways, how in God's green earth does Oswald admitting he was "in the building" prove the little rat was innocent?

how in God's green earth does Oswald admitting he was "in the building" prove the little rat was innocent?

Little Rat??   Wow!!... You're still sore that Lee "ratted you out" and told RFK that the Cuban "Freedom Fighters were training on a farm on the north shore of Lake Ponchatrain near Mandeville La.  And the results of his "ratting" on the Cubans got some of them tossed out of the country....

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2019, 05:00:01 PM »

Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2019, 05:25:26 PM »
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how in God's green earth does Oswald admitting he was "in the building" prove the little rat was innocent?

Little Rat??   Wow!!... You're still sore that Lee "ratted you out" and told RFK that the Cuban "Freedom Fighters were training on a farm on the north shore of Lake Ponchatrain near Mandeville La.  And the results of his "ratting" on the Cubans got some of them tossed out of the country....

The little rat might have turned in the Cuban freedom fighters if he had known but there's absolutely no proof that he did know. Anyways, my question remains unanswered. Take your time, I'm not in any hurry.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2019, 06:05:29 PM »
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The little rat might have turned in the Cuban freedom fighters if he had known but there's absolutely no proof that he did know. Anyways, my question remains unanswered. Take your time, I'm not in any hurry.

The little rat might have turned in the Cuban freedom fighters if he had known

During the missile crisis the "Freedom Fighters" had nearly tripped the trigger on a nuclear war, by attacking a Russian ship in Havana harbor.....

JFK was understandable livid.....  He ordered Bobby to find out where those renegades were operating from and who was subsidizing them.  RFK contacted George De M.  and told him to get Lee  to New Orleans and do some snooping around....

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2019, 06:05:29 PM »

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2019, 09:29:59 PM »
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By the time Oswald was under interrogation it had been pretty firmly established the shots had come from the SN at the TSBD. Oswald was asked by Fritz were he had been when the shots were fired (or something to that effect) and he answered eating his lunch on the first floor. Oswald was again asked the same question on the second day of interrogation but he didn't take the bait and continued with his lie that he was not where everyone would knew he had been. On the third day of interrogation Oswald just about phu..ed up and admitted to Postal Inspector Holmes that he went down after the commotion and then left after the Baker incident. It's too bad Inspector Holmes didn't pursue this any further at the time but he can't be blamed as nobody knew that Ruby would kill the little SOB moments later.

By the time Oswald was under interrogation it had been pretty firmly established the shots had come from the SN at the TSBD.

Please direct me to a single sentence that indicates that Lee Oswald had any idea that the police were telling reporters that the shots had came from the sixth floor....

 Oswald was asked by Fritz were he had been when the shots were fired (or something to that effect) and he answered eating his lunch on the first floor.

Fritz asked Le "Where were you when the parade passed by the building?...  which is a totally different question than asking where he had been when the shots were fired.   A question which suggests that Lee knew that shots had been fired, and he knew when they had been fired...

Oswald was again asked the same question on the second day of interrogation but he didn't take the bait and continued with his lie that he was not where everyone would knew he had been.

How did "everybody know" ???.....  When not a single person reported sighting Lee Oswald anywhere at the time of the shooting....

Offline Oscar Navarro

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 12:37:42 AM »
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By the time Oswald was under interrogation it had been pretty firmly established the shots had come from the SN at the TSBD.

Please direct me to a single sentence that indicates that Lee Oswald had any idea that the police were telling reporters that the shots had came from the sixth floor....

 Oswald was asked by Fritz were he had been when the shots were fired (or something to that effect) and he answered eating his lunch on the first floor.

Fritz asked Le "Where were you when the parade passed by the building?...  which is a totally different question than asking where he had been when the shots were fired.   A question which suggests that Lee knew that shots had been fired, and he knew when they had been fired...

Oswald was again asked the same question on the second day of interrogation but he didn't take the bait and continued with his lie that he was not where everyone would knew he had been.

How did "everybody know" ???.....  When not a single person reported sighting Lee Oswald anywhere at the time of the shooting....


Fritz asked Oswald "what part of the building he was in at  the time the President was shot" during the first interrogation on the afternoon of 11/22. Oswald was charged with the Presidents murder shortly after midnight on the 23rd. Oswald became a suspect once truly told Fritz he could not account for his whereabouts and a prime suspect once he was brought in after his arrest for the murder of Tippit.

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2019, 12:37:42 AM »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2019, 01:31:09 AM »
"JFK AND THE UNSPEAKABLE
Why He Died And Why It Matters"

By James W. Douglas
p.177

-snip-

"On October 9, 1963, one week before Lee Harvey Oswald began his job at a site overlooking the president's future parade route,an FBI official in Washington, D.C., disconnected Oswald from a federal alarm system that was about to identify him as a threat to national security. The FBI man's name was Marvin Gheesling. He was a supervisor in the Soviet espionage section at FBI headquarters. His timing was remarkable. As author John Newman remarked in an analysis of this phenomenon, Gheesling "turned off the alarm switch on Oswald literally an instant before it would have gone off."

-snip-


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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2019, 01:31:09 AM »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #18 on: January 22, 2019, 02:24:00 AM »
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Did Lee Oswald know that the sixth floor was the alleged scene of the crime?

Can anybody point out a specific statement by Lee Oswald that indicates that he knew that the sixth floor of the TSBD was being presented to the public as the place from which the shots had been fired?

I'm not 100% sure his interrogators thought the shots, or all of the shots, came from the 6th floor SE corner of the TSBD.

Many DP witnesses thought they came from elsewhere.

-------------------------------------------------

TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN The TSBD

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1.  Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2.  Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3.  Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4.  O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5.  Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6.  Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7.  Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8.  Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9.  Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right   front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on                  Triple Underpass). 
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
    (He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)

41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins

-------------------------

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Mr. Hargis: I was at the left-hand side of the Presidential Limousine.
Mr. Stern: Riding next to Mrs. Kennedy?
Mr. Hargis: Right.

"....Well at the time it sounded like the shots were right next to me. There wasn't
anyway in the world I could tell where they were coming from but at the time there
was something in my head that said that they probably could have been coming from the
 railroad overpass, because I thought since I had got splattered with blood-I was just
a little back and left of-just a little back and left of Mrs. Kennedy, but I didn't know.
I had a feeling that it might have been from the Texas Book Depository. and these places
was the primary place that could have been shot from....

....I ran across the street looking over towards the railroad overpass and I remembered
seeing people scattering and running and then I looked--...

.....and then I looked over to the Texas School Book Depository Building, and no one that
was standing at the base of the building was--seemed to be looking up at the building or
anything like they knew where the shots were coming from, so.....

.....Well, then, I thought since I had looked over at the Texas Book Depository and some
people looking out of the windows up there, didn't seem like they knew what was going on,
but none of them were looking towards or near anywhere the shots had been fired from....."


« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 02:24:58 AM by Gary Craig »

Offline Gary Craig

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2019, 04:57:02 AM »
Motorcade cop tells how it happened B.W. Hargis
Sunday News (New York) 24 November 1963


?Motorcade Cop Tells How It Happened,? Sunday News (New York), 24 November 1963, p.25:

Dallas, Nov. 23 (Special) - B. W. Hargis, 31, Dallas motorcycle patrolman who was riding
in President Kennedy?s motorcade, gave this account today of the assassination:
 
?We turned left onto Elm St. off Houston, about half a block from where it happened. I was
right alongside the rear fender on the left hand side of the President?s car, near Mrs. Kennedy.
 
When I heard the first explosion, I knew it was a shot. I thought that Gov. Connally had been
hit when I saw him turn toward the President with a real surprised look.

The President then looked like he was bent over or that he was leaning toward the Governor, talking to him.
 
As the President straightened back up, Mrs. Kennedy turned toward him, and that was when he got hit in the side of his head,
spinning it around.

I was splattered with blood.
 
Then I felt something hit me. It could have been concrete or something, but I thought at first I might have been hit.
Then I saw the limousine stop, and I parked my motorcycle at the side of the road, got off and drew my gun.
 
Then this Secret Service agent (in the President?s car) got his wits about him and they took off. The
motorcycle officer on the right side of the car was Jim Chaney. He immediately went forward and announced to the chief that
the President had been shot.?

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Re: Did Lee Oswald know....??
« Reply #19 on: January 22, 2019, 04:57:02 AM »

 

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